ECMlink e85 and SD cold/hard start

[DSM_munky_man]

Hello, I am having trouble getting my car to start. It is running on e85 and SD. It recently got a rebuild in AZ but engine didn't go in I got to Oklahoma. nothing about the setup changed. The car was originally tuned in phoenix. I need help configuring the tune to start in the cold, so for I have had several attempts to start but it wouldn't actually start. here is a log.

 

[gofer]

1. What did the motor build consist of, 2.0/2.3/2.4?
2. Was it just the bottom end or did the head have some work too, such as 1mm oversized valves, port work, different cams?
3. Your VE table looks odd, how did you come up with those numbers?
4. What spark plugs are you using and what are they gapped to?

Its your tune but I would personally use the SD VE table I've attached and start over, shouldn't be much more than minor changes here and there. I'd also go into your DA's CoolantTempFuelAdj and make changes to the 46*, 70*, & 95* temp sliders. Bump the 46* to 33.6% and the 70*/95* to 30%, doing both of these things should fix the cold start problems you're having.

 

[DSM_munky_man]

1. What did the motor build consist of, 2.0/2.3/2.4?
   
   Stock 2.0
   
2. Was it just the bottom end or did the head have some work too, such as 1mm oversized valves, port work, different cams?
   
   Only head work was like a debur/cleanup of the ports. Stock cams and valves.
   
3. Your VE table looks odd, how did you come up with those numbers?
   
   That is the table that my tuner had in my car. He is the one who ran the tune.
   
4. What spark plugs are you using and what are they gapped to?
   
   bpr7es gapped at .027 for the log you looked at, but just put in bpr6es at .030
   

Its your tune but I would personally use the SD VE table I've attached and start over, shouldn't be much more than minor changes here and there. I'd also go into your DA's CoolantTempFuelAdj and make changes to the 46*, 70*, & 95* temp sliders. Bump the 46* to 33.6% and the 70*/95* to 30%, doing both of these things should fix the cold start problems you're having.

I'll load this to the comp and adjust the settings, and report back with what i find out.

 

[donniekak]

Working a tune out on a new engine can cause some issues. I suggest a maf based tune for starters. While you are learning how to tune, you are dumping alcohol, with a small percentage of water in it, into your freshly honed cylinders, and new rings.

Somehow, everyone got convinced that sd is so much better than a maf based setup, and new tuners are f*****g engines up at a record pace.

 

[DSM_munky_man]

dont got a MAF anymore, or else i would have started there, but gofer, here is another log after the fact of the changes you suggested, still no start, closer tho.

 

[DSM_munky_man]

here is a new log, this time i put 91 oct fuel in it, wont idle on its own yet, but if i feather it it will stay running.

 

[DSM_munky_man]

Also, WB reads 19.7-20+ when i have it running by feathering the throttle.

 

[Calan]

It looks like the ECU is getting an intermittent (or non-existent) airflow signal. Is your MAP sensor connected properly? Everything in the log related to airflow points to the ECU not seeing it.

Other than that, the logs don't tell us much since you are working the throttle to keep it running. One thing does look a bit odd in the last log though; during the first part (before the car died), it looks like the simulated idle switch isn't consistent, compared to the second part when it looks like I would expect. Not sure if this is relevant or not, but it's interesting.

Why are you using secondary fuel adjustments with E85? (Although it doesn't look like the Idle Switch input is being triggered).

 

[DSM_munky_man]

the latest log was done using 91 oct, and yes the map sensor is hooked up properly, i will check it again and maybe see if it is set up right in link as well as far as inputs.

 

[Calan]

Something isn't adding up (besides what appears to be a missing airflow signal).

If you are running 91 on 1250s @ stock fuel pressure, your global should be around -64% I believe. You are MUCH richer than that in the log I looked at, with global fuel at -44%. Secondary fuel is configured to pull an additional 33%, but it's not being triggered (and that would be too lean if it was).

Also, a DT value of 415us is pretty low for BM 1250s with the stock InjBatteryAdj values. My 1250's wouldn't dial in until I had the DT up around 525us or so above the factory voltage values.

At this point, I would start over. Verify all the mechanicals (base timing, BISS, idle switch adjustment, throttle cable adjustment, no vac/boost leaks, and base fuel pressure). Check all sensor wiring and ECU input assignments, turn off the secondary fuel and anti-lag (just to make sure it doesn't accidently get triggered), reset your global fuel, zero all the timing and fuel sliders, and get the car to idle. As soon as it is warmed up and will run decent, get that motor broken in with 5-10 75% pulls up to 5000rpms or so and then full engine braking down to around 2k to avoid glazing the cylinders (assuming you are just now starting it after the rebuild).

Once that's done, you can start working on getting things better dialed in at the idle and cruise areas of the VE table. Then slowly up the boost and start working on the higher-load areas over the next 1000 miles or so while changing the oil and filter a few times.

 

[gofer]

...I was going to say something about that logged IdleSw as well, it seems you might have wired in your secondary fuel map switch incorrectly. I know you've got it simulated through Link however, if you didn't cut the wire going to the idle switch on the throttle body its grounding it and switching.

 

[Calan]

...if you didn't cut the wire going to the idle switch on the throttle body its grounding it and switching.

Or just disconnect the plug at the TB.

Good point though.

 

[gofer]

I don't tell anyone to unplug something and zip-tie it off any longer, after my wiring harness into the axle fiasco a few years ago I learned that lesson.

 

[DSM_munky_man]

Something isn't adding up (besides what appears to be a missing airflow signal).

If you are running 91 on 1250s @ stock fuel pressure, your global should be around -64% I believe. You are MUCH richer than that in the log I looked at, with global fuel at -44%. Secondary fuel is configured to pull an additional 33%, but it's not being triggered (and that would be too lean if it was).

Also, a DT value of 415us is pretty low for BM 1250s with the stock InjBatteryAdj values. My 1250's wouldn't dial in until I had the DT up around 525us or so above the factory voltage values.

At this point, I would start over. Verify all the mechanicals (base timing, BISS, idle switch adjustment, throttle cable adjustment, no vac/boost leaks, and base fuel pressure). Check all sensor wiring and ECU input assignments, turn off the secondary fuel and anti-lag (just to make sure it doesn't accidently get triggered), reset your global fuel, zero all the timing and fuel sliders, and get the car to idle. As soon as it is warmed up and will run decent, get that motor broken in with 5-10 75% pulls up to 5000rpms or so and then full engine braking down to around 2k to avoid glazing the cylinders (assuming you are just now starting it after the rebuild).

Once that's done, you can start working on getting things better dialed in at the idle and cruise areas of the VE table. Then slowly up the boost and start working on the higher-load areas over the next 1000 miles or so while changing the oil and filter a few times.

Ok, missing airflow signal was because the pink wire come out of the plug on the SD harness cable. How do i pull the pins out on this to get it back in? and the global settings I have on there or the ones that had been given to and helped me when i first got them through the link site. Also they are 120 lbs injectors wich is about 1260 cc's to be exact. Not sure if that is much of a difference though. and I will disable everything, but for best bet sake, would it be wise to just start from a scratch 1g tune? If so i need someone to send me the files to start with. And are the settings as far as global and us for the injectors is that where i should start? Or what are your suggestions as far as that?

...I was going to say something about that logged IdleSw as well, it seems you might have wired in your secondary fuel map switch incorrectly. I know you've got it simulated through Link however, if you didn't cut the wire going to the idle switch on the throttle body its grounding it and switching.

Or just disconnect the plug at the TB.

Good point though.

The idle switch was unplugged from the tbody and then connected to the switch.

 

[gofer]

If your SD cable needs repaired send Eric (turbosax2) a PM with pictures, he might be able to give you some advice on fixing it yourself or tell you how to go about getting it fixed through ECMLink.

I gave you a good SD VE map to start with and there are a few factors you need to take into account for injector settings.

Since you've got FIC BM 1250's in, and running two maps, your primary map MUST be your injector settings on E85. That being said, FIC injectors are rated at 43.5psi so if your bfp differentiates from that it affects their flow and, in turn, your global fuel settings.

BFPR @ 37psi

Injector Flow : 1153cc (110lbs/hr)
Globals (E85) : -41%
Global for Secondary (Pump) : -33%
BM 1250 seem to like deadtimes between 550μs and 800μs.​

BFPR @ 43.5psi

Injector Flow : 1250cc (119lbs/hr)
Globals (E85) : -46%
Global for Secondary (Pump) : -33%
BM 1250 seem to like deadtimes between 550μs and 800μs.​

Odds are, once you fix that harness, the car will at least start and idle. Then you can start tweaking that SD VE map a bit. Just be sure your injector settings reflect the above and you have the switch flipped to the right fuel you've got in the tank.

 

[Calan]

Ok, missing airflow signal was because the pink wire come out of the plug on the SD harness cable. How do i pull the pins out on this to get it back in?

It's possible that it broke if the pin just came out. It's usually pretty hard to get the pins out of the connector without a special tool.

If the pin won't lock back into place, your best bet is to splice it, or use a good insulated quick-disconnect male/female plug for it on each side of the factory connector.

the global settings I have on there or the ones that had been given to and helped me when i first got them through the link site. Also they are 120 lbs injectors wich is about 1260 cc's to be exact. Not sure if that is much of a difference though.... And are the settings as far as global and us for the injectors is that where i should start? Or what are your suggestions as far as that?

Wherever the numbers came from, toss them. They are incorrect for your current setup on 91 pump, if your profile is correct. 91 pump gas on 1250s @ 37psi base fuel pressure = -64% global. It may need a minor adjustment later, but it will at least be close. (Just stay on pump gas at low boost/timing until you get it dialed in).

I will disable everything, but for best bet sake, would it be wise to just start from a scratch 1g tune? If so i need someone to send me the files to start with.

There aren't really any "starting files", other than the stock Evo 8 AFR and timing maps that you can download (and I would...the stock 1G timing is too aggressive, and the stock AFR is too rich). Other than that... zero your sliders, use the VE table that Cory gave you, and use -64% global for the fuel. Start with something like 500us for the DT, and it should fire up and at least idle.

BTW - Has the motor been broken in yet?

*****

EDIT: Damn youngsters and their fast typing.

Good info, but he's on 91 now Cory... which I suggest he stays on until things are dialed in (unless he can afford 93).

 

[DSM_munky_man]

motor has not been broke in yet, just trying to get it started so i can break it in. fixed the harness and am going out now to plug it in and see if it works.

 

[Calan]

motor has not been broke in yet, just trying to get it started so i can break it in.

Ok.

The reason I asked is because you don't want to spend a bunch of time messing around with ECMLink while the cylinders are just being washed down (and the crosshatch worn away) during your very narrow break-in period. Have everything ready to go when you start it, and work fast (but carefully while it's warming up to make any coarse adjustments as needed.

As soon as it is warmed up and global fuel is close enough that it will run without being smoking rich, head to the highway and break in the rings. Keep an eye on the WB to make sure it's close (better rich than lean), and closely watch knock. Then worry about tuning it.

 

[Calan]

Any updates?

 

[DSM_munky_man]

Car starts and ran for a minute, i shut it off tho cause timing needs to be adjusted now, then i should be set to go.

Here is a short idle log at temp. About to go out and get her broken in here in a few.

 

[Calan]

Better (you have an airflow signal now), but you're locked in open loop as there is no signal from a front O2 sensor.

Also, your WB is not assigned on the inputs tab and is not being logged.

 

[Calan]

Did you get it broke in and running?

 

[DSM_munky_man]

yes i did, i though i had posted after i did, but here is a log from just some idling, i think i need to adjust my idle screw, i was playing with it before and not sure if i got it set back to where it was.

Never got attached cause the file was too big, but here is a cruise log i took split into two.

 

[Calan]

Cool. Lots of good part-throttle decel pulls in that last log... now it's time to start calibrating the VE table and get your fuel trims in line.

 

[DSM_munky_man]

Alright any helpful tips, I haven't tuned it myself on SD, took it to my tuner for that, but i did tune my MAF before I did the SD swap.