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e85 SD Setup super hard to star help !!!!

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Pursuit

15+ Year Contributor
326
0
Apr 3, 2007
las vegas, Nevada
i dont know what to do anymore i try so many different ways nothing works.

SMIM with q45tb , rc1600cc injectors , 272 hks cams , 8.0 compression , here's 3 logs please help me i am depressed .

once the car start it idles ok . but when i shut it down even when its hot it gets impossible to start again,.

i try diffrent dead time , try to play with coolant temp fuel adjusment , the battery voltage injector pulse and still nothing.....
 

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  • idle.elg
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  • e85 no start 2.elg
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  • e85 no start 1.elg
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Did you do any tuning on this car, or have you just been moving sliders/values all over the place to try to get it to idle? Just wondering why you have the timing sliders up 8* at the lower end.

Do you have a stock narrowband sensor in the front spot, or do you have your AEM unit there?

Would you be against zeroing everything out and starting from scratch?
 
Did you do any tuning on this car, or have you just been moving sliders/values all over the place to try to get it to idle? Just wondering why you have the timing sliders up 8* at the lower end.

Do you have a stock narrowband sensor in the front spot, or do you have your AEM unit there?

Would you be against zeroing everything out and starting from scratch?


the tuning was done for my 20g stock intake , tb no IAC , stock cams and the car was runing great and the idle was ok . but after i change to q45 and 272 cams, i start getting hard times starting it every single time no matter cold or hot. i move the sliders up and down just to see if going to start at least , but no differenc. i didnt touch the timing , the only stuff i did is playing with dead time , global , injectors pulse , and coolant temp fuel adjustment.

i just need the car to start and idle ok the wot tuning its not that important right now.
 
A change of throttle body and cams shouldn't cause the car not to idle.

Is your front o2 sensor a stock one or the AEM unit? The reason I ask if it's the stock one, it's not cycling, and if it's the AEM unit, narrowband sim is not setup in link.

Do you have a log of the car with the previous setup when it was idling?
 
A change of throttle body and cams shouldn't cause the car not to idle.

Is your front o2 sensor a stock one or the AEM unit? The reason I ask if it's the stock one, it's not cycling, and if it's the AEM unit, narrowband sim is not setup in link.

Do you have a log of the car with the previous setup when it was idling?


i use stock front o2 bosch from auto zone.
the AEM its hooked up to the rear o2.

on this log i run only the SMIM and q45 with stock cams and i run 12.6 28psi the car was runin lean at idle and wot i ,mess with the ve table a little, and i fix the lean idle , after that i put 272 cams and tune. but my tuner was not able, to fix my start problem.. now when i try to start the car, and i am keeping it to spin for 10 or more, seconds and when i let go sometimes ,the exhaust pops really loud and white smoke comes out .
 

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  • 12.6.elg
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Hot start problems are usually from too much fuel on start up. Modify your cranking IPW or crank fueling.

This gets worse with larger injectors.
 
Hot start problems are usually from too much fuel on start up. Modify your cranking IPW or crank fueling.

This gets worse with larger injectors.

the car was not starting right away at the begining , but after 2,3 try's was firing up and idles . right now it doesn't even start "when the engine temps is more than 160f" the car starts only when its cold ...

i try to play with injectors pulse and coolant temp adjustment but it didn't work .
 
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I'm not able to view his logs at work, but if his fuel trims aren't in line, the o2 won't cycle either.. May by something to check since it sounds like some things are out of whack since the "tuner" was using the sliders and not the tables......
 
In the latest log, fuel trims don't start reading until the end of the log (they're static at 0% though most of it), where CombinedFT goes to around -10%.

This is what I would do to see if I could get it running.
-Reset BaseTipInTPSAdj, CoolantTempFuelAdj, and InjBatteryAdj tables to stock values
-Set LoadScale to 100%
-Zero out the fuel and timing sliders
-Select ECU on the menu bar and then choose Reset fuel trims
-Set Global to -58% and deadtime to 450

Then if you can get it idling, use this video to help set your fuel trims.


Last note - damn you have an aggressive timing table! Do you really run 24*+ of timing at 7k RPM?
 
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Hey Just come back from the garage, i play with the adjustments for few hours its much better now check out the log. Any suggestions ? Thanks
I am still having problem starting from first time but at least starts.
 

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  • new adjustments.elg
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My guess is you have a non-'95/'96 CAS, so you need to check the box on the Misc screen.

Other values (deadtime and/or VE possibly) are off.
1. You still have a CombinedFT value of 6-8%. I would correct this first by watching this video:
http://www.ecmtuning.com/demos/fueltrim.html
2. Your MAP and BoostEst don't match up. These should. You should be able to correct this by following these directions at idle.
sdveadjcomft [ECMTuning - wiki]
 
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My guess is you have a non-'95/'96 CAS, so you need to check the box on the Misc screen.

Other values (deadtime and/or VE possibly) are off.
1. You still have a CombinedFT value of 6-8%. I would correct this first by watching this video:
http://www.ecmtuning.com/demos/fueltrim.html
2. Your MAP and BoostEst don't match up. These should. You should be able to correct this by following these directions at idle.
sdveadjcomft [ECMTuning - wiki]

i try to bring the Boost est up so ill be close to the actual vacum, but i cant. i adjust the the airflowper rev and the combFT as close as i can ... the car starts better than before , but still need to crank few times to start.
 

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  • new.elg
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Where/how is your GM MAP hooked up? Is it getting it's own vacuum line straight from the intake manifold? Is the vacuum line as short as it can be?

the gm map is hooked up to directly to the intake manifold . the line its about 3" long.

sdhose [ECMTuning - wiki]


also i read about boost est , my boostest is almost the same as actual boost at wot, if i understand right the boostest its only accurate at wot only .... not idle .

ECMlink, BoostEst estimates "boost" from airflow per rev. On a properly configured car, this value should match measured manifold pressure pretty closely at wide open throttle around 5500-6500 RPM. Outside this range, BoostEst is expected to fall off from measured. The BoostEst calculation is not calibrated to read accurately at any other engine speed (RPM).
 
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It should be accurate all of the time. Just at WOT, it's not really accurate after 5500 RPM's, and it won't line up with an actual logged MAP sensor.

I was told today by Tom that if they're off then either VE is > 100% (which isn't true at idle) or the MAP sensor reading isn't scaled properly (which I would assume it should be if it's one of the common MAP sensors). He suggested logging ECUBoost to see what the ECU is configured for. I'd be interested to see a decent length idle log with this value logged as I've never used it before.
 
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first log i captured little of the idle few pulls no adjustments .

second log i forgot to capture ecu boost , but i did few adjustments on the open loop max octane table, to make the afr little high at wot ... ill do more adjustments tomorrow .. but the car feels good even with basic adjustments. i just need to work more on the start and idle , to get them perfect as possible.
 

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  • pull 1 ECU boost captured.elg
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  • pull 2 wot afr adjustment.elg
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Yes it does. I missed that the first time around.

So, you have it idling ok now, correct? If you go watch it after it's up to temp, your CombinedFT will bounce around 0%, AFR's will bounce around 14.7, and AirFlowPerRev will be around .25-.28. If so, we can move on.
 
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The idle its pretty good I am happy , I can probably adjust airflowper rev a little more, so it will go down to .25 ... But I am still have that cold hot start issue . I need to crank the engine few times to start . And it starts when I let the key go . Not while cranking .
 
For the hot start issues, have you tried checking the "Enable hot start enrichment" box in the Misc tab?

i try the both ways , and it doesn't make big of a difference. :ohdamn:

do you think that can be from coolant temp adjustment or injector battery adjustment.

And one more thing , if i try to log let say the cold start cranking, and start the log and start cranking the log just stops ... so i need to start cracking and then start the log. and ive seen people that have logs even before they start cranking the engine ... my battery its 450amp cold cranking.
 
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I don't see any coolant temp adjustment in your latest log, and injector battery adjustment wouldn't cause that.

When the log stops, do you turn the key backwards out of the ON position? If so, then the log will stop. If not, then you have me stumped.

i am turning the key to on , so i can connect to the link, start stream ( the stream goes on) , and then i crank the engine the the log stream stops. i think my battery doesn't have enough cranking amps to mantain power during the cranking period.

also heres another log i just play with the injectors battery adjustment, and the dead time the idle now its pefect, if i can fix the starting problem it will be great ....
 

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  • log.2011.08.09-01.elg
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