Dual intank fuel pumps

[BluemeanieTSi]

i started trying to figure out how to put dual pumps in the stock housing but that wasn't happening without major hacking. since it was my only housing i had i started looking for alternatives so i decided to build my own.

the housing cost me about 10 bux and 2 days to make, i still need to wire it.

here's what i started with but this ended up not working well due to return line placement.

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the housing isn't all that thick it was the thickest metal i could find at the local tractor supply company. i just cut a circle to match the upper piece and welded a support rod to it, then welded the inner ring piece for the gasket, test fit to make sure it sealed ok then started on the feed lines. they are 3/8th brake line i bought 3/8th brake unions and ordered 3/8th flare to 6 an fittings from summit. the housing cost me around 10 bux and the fittings cost around 15 total for that part.

(ignore the twisted screens the pumps weren't secured yet for this pic)

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after about a days work (i'm not much for planning things out) i realized i had no room for wiring or a return line. soooooo i started over

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the two 45 degree 6an hose ends clear the back seat with no modification following the factory feed lines. the "y" block is a BG (barry grant) fuel block i got from jegs for around 30 bux and it is 3/8th NPT, it comes with a pressure tap source that needs to be plugged (i see no need to put a gauge back there) the lines are 6 an then 3/8 to 6an 45 degree fittings for inlefts with a 3/8th to 8 an and 8 an line from then on.

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i kept the float for street car use, and i kept the gauge light crap just so i didnt' have to cut it apart. the return line is 3/8th and the vent is 1/4 brake line, i'll be using the factory feed hard line as a larger return line so i dont' have to run another line under tha car i'll use the existing one which i think is 5/16ths

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everything is soldered with plumbing solder and leak tested. here's a good shot of the flare to an fittings from summit.

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here's what i have so far, all the lines (not cut to length) and the filter i will be using (caution this filter is over a foot long) everything is 8an from the y block up including the rail. i will be using a magnafuel fuel pressure regulator as i was not impressed with the aeromotive one i had been using in the past.

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questions, comments, personal experiences......for reference i'm planning on an fp3065 for the setup at the moment.

 

[Rick@AP]

Rick it seems that you've been doing a fair amount of research on this. If you're feeling up to doing a little more reading check out the fuel pumps made by Product Engineering.

http://productengr.com/

They're very popular among the forced induction V8 guys. It flows a little less than the Weldon 2025 but it's a hell of a lot quieter. You also don't have to deal with the issues of plumbing in two pumps. The best part is the 2 year warranty.

Thanks for the info.

I'm going to contact them in the morning to discuss my options.

Thanks!

 

[Slippi84]

Rick how much power are you trying to make or do you make now?

 

[Rick@AP]

Rick how much power are you trying to make or do you make now?

On the current turbo, the daily driver makes 536 whp at which point the Supra pump dies. Before switching to a new turbo, I want to push this turbo to around 35-40 psi (currently at 24) and use a direct port nitrous shot. Looking for a fuel system that will support 800 whp.

 

[Rick@AP]

Rick it seems that you've been doing a fair amount of research on this. If you're feeling up to doing a little more reading check out the fuel pumps made by Product Engineering.

http://productengr.com/

They're very popular among the forced induction V8 guys. It flows a little less than the Weldon 2025 but it's a hell of a lot quieter. You also don't have to deal with the issues of plumbing in two pumps. The best part is the 2 year warranty.

Did a little more research on this and asked around. For sure, as I've found out, this pump is one of the best bargains out there. Apparently the owner, John, is the orginator of the Magnafuel pumps and has started his own business selling an upgraded version of the same pumps.

The problem that I've run into with these pumps is that they have to be mounted vertically in order to properly work. That means that I would have to place the pump inside the trunk somewhere and plumb to it. This is something that I am totally against for this particular car being that it's a daily driven street car. For the race car this pump may be just the ticket.

 

[Slippi84]

On the current turbo, the daily driver makes 536 whp at which point the Supra pump dies. Before switching to a new turbo, I want to push this turbo to around 35-40 psi (currently at 24) and use a direct port nitrous shot. Looking for a fuel system that will support 800 whp.

Your makin 536whp on a daily tune pump gas at only 24 psi WTF . WHat are you using a t3 gt35r variant?

 

[Rick@AP]

Your makin 536whp on a daily tune pump gas at only 24 psi WTF . WHat are you using a t3 gt35r variant?

Modified stroker motor and a GT37/40 variant. The run that made that number and the fuel pump give up was on C16.

 

[Slippi84]

Modified stroker motor and a GT37/40 variant. The run that made that number and the fuel pump give up was on C16.

ok I was about to say that's one bad ass tune. Still 536whp is a lot no matter how you slice it. By the dyno when did the pump give out on you?

 

[Rick@AP]

ok I was about to say that's one bad ass tune. Still 536whp is a lot no matter how you slice it. By the dyno when did the pump give out on you?

At 6.5k-7k rpms the O2's started fluctuating wildly and the fuel pressure took a dump so the operator let off the gas.

In Atlanta they are ok numbers. That same weekend a Supra pulled in and put down 1244 whp and a STi pulled 5xxwhp. Both are daily drivers, in fact the Supra guy routinely drives his car to Miami. At this point all I am doing is playing keep up.

 

[Slippi84]

At 6.5k-7k rpms the O2's started fluctuating wildly and the fuel pressure took a dump so the operator let off the gas.

In Atlanta they are ok numbers. That same weekend a Supra pulled in and put down 1244 whp and a STi pulled 5xxwhp. Both are daily drivers, in fact the Supra guy routinely drives his car to Miami. At this point all I am doing is playing keep up.

Yeah I hear ya but supra + 1244whp - traction = no fun and who cares about the sti those have got to be the ugliest performance cars EVER

 

[Hal]

An intank feeder pump must not pump through a pump that is not running.

As an example, if you plumb an A1000 inline with a Supra pump, you'll be lucky to get base pressure because your asking the Supra pump to deliver fuel thru the motionless A1000 pump.

An A1000 is pretty nice "plug" when it's not running.

If you have 1600cc injectors, your feeder pump must supply at least 6400cc per minute with no pressure load.

Since an inline pump is going to "outflow" the intank pump, the intank pump will never be pumping against any pressure. The key is to make sure the mismatch isn't too great otherwise the inline pump isn't being used to it's full potential.

I'm not a fan of dual (parallel) pumps because it seems like one of them dies an early death.

I'm not a fan of the A1000. Myself and others have seen it max out at about 80 psi.

That and the noise level is why I switched to a belt driven pump.

Hal

 

[Rick@AP]

Thanks Hal.

That verifies a lot of the information that I have found so far.

 

[Slippi84]

An intank feeder pump must not pump through a pump that is not running.

As an example, if you plumb an A1000 inline with a Supra pump, you'll be lucky to get base pressure because your asking the Supra pump to deliver fuel thru the motionless A1000 pump.

An A1000 is pretty nice "plug" when it's not running.

If you have 1600cc injectors, your feeder pump must supply at least 6400cc per minute with no pressure load.

Since an inline pump is going to "outflow" the intank pump, the intank pump will never be pumping against any pressure. The key is to make sure the mismatch isn't too great otherwise the inline pump isn't being used to it's full potential.

I'm not a fan of dual (parallel) pumps because it seems like one of them dies an early death.

I'm not a fan of the A1000. Myself and others have seen it max out at about 80 psi.

That and the noise level is why I switched to a belt driven pump.

Hal

So HAL you think a dual Walbro 255 (series) setup would be good if both pumps are continuous? I'm curious how the stock lies will do with a setup like this

 

[speedmaster747]

So HAL you think a dual Walbro 255 (series) setup would be good if both pumps are continuous? I'm curious how the stock lies will do with a setup like this

I have a friend that it's runnung 2 walbros intank and a bosch inline, and he still using the factory return !
My dual walbros are already installed and will fire up the car next week!

 

[ICE_T]

Shep run 8.XX with stock lines (fuel pupm to fuel filter.)

 

[larsrya8]

Shep run 8.XX with stock lines (fuel pupm to fuel filter.)

I seriously doubt that. Unless that was in the 1/8 mile?

 

[tstkl]

I have a friend that it's runnung 2 walbros intank and a bosch inline, and he still using the factory return !
My dual walbros are already installed and will fire up the car next week!

care to share some pics?

 

[Slippi84]

I have a friend that it's runnung 2 walbros intank and a bosch inline, and he still using the factory return !
My dual walbros are already installed and will fire up the car next week!

Good to hear. I think I am gonna hop on the dual walbro one inline one intank setup as I don't plan on makin much over 500whp but you never know and the dual walbro setup will more than be enough. WHere in the fuel system are you guys putting the inline pump.

 

[tstkl]

Good to hear. I think I am gonna hop on the dual walbro one inline one intank setup as I don't plan on makin much over 500whp but you never know and the dual walbro setup will more than be enough. WHere in the fuel system are you guys putting the inline pump.

I'd put it close to the gas tank (up there, as far as possible) to prevent rocks and stuff from hitting the pump itself. You could also put it in the engine bay, but I wouldn't. Theres enough stuff in there anyways.

 

[Slippi84]

I'd put it close to the gas tank (up there, as far as possible) to prevent rocks and stuff from hitting the pump itself. You could also put it in the engine bay, but I wouldn't. Theres enough stuff in there anyways.

I thought toward the rail as possible so that it would kinda get the pressure up to where it needs to be right before it hits the injectors. You figure the pressure has to decrease somewhat while traveling to the rail and a pump right by the rail maybe with a filter then a inline 255 then the rail would avoid pressure loss as much as possible.

 

[larsrya8]

I thought toward the rail as possible so that it would kinda get the pressure up to where it needs to be right before it hits the injectors. You figure the pressure has to decrease somewhat while traveling to the rail and a pump right by the rail maybe with a filter then a inline 255 then the rail would avoid pressure loss as much as possible.

Pressure is regulated by the AFPR, not the pump. Where would the pressure bleed away to?

 

[Kevin Jewer]

Most of these pumps are not meant to draw fuel. In fact Aeromotive specifically states that there can be no pre-pump restrictions at all, and is very specific about what type of pre-pump filter needs to be used. Mounting it so far from and above the tank would probably not work out for long. Mechanical pumps like the one aeromotive makes do a better job of pulling fuel in most cases, but sometimes still need to be primed. There is probably also some benefit to having all that line volume ahead of the pump for surge volume.

 

[Slippi84]

Pressure is regulated by the AFPR, not the pump. Where would the pressure bleed away to?

I figured that the pressure created by the pump doesn't stay exactly the same all the way from the pump to the rail. The pressure we set our cars at up by the rail is not the same pressure as soon as it comes out the pump. Think about it somewhat like the cable. A signal (fuel) is sent threw the cable but over distance that signal degrades and isn't as strong as it was when first tramsimited. So you have signal amplifiers(inline pumps) that bring the signal back up to where it should be. With that said if distance degrades the signal strength(fuel pressure) degrades over distance the closer you put it to the device(injector) the stronger the signal is. That's the logic I had I mean anyone feel free to chime in if I have neglected to factor in anything.

 

[poorboyj]

This analogy in not very valid. The "signal" (pressure) that is being created, is not created until the fuel pressure regulator creates a restriction to cause the fuel FLOW from the pump to back up. More/bigger pumps create more flow and have higher flow capabilities at higher pressures.

 

[Slippi84]

I understand what your saying. I found a even easier way to make the one walbro 255 fit my needs anyway. I read about it in this months Dsport magazine. MSD makes a fuel pump signal amplifier that actualy brings operation voltage up to like 16.5 volts. They did a test on all the popular aftermarket pumps including the walbro 255 and it showed the flow and hp numbers of each pump at a given voltage and boost psi along with a base pressure of 45psi. The walbro 255 with the aid of the MSD fuel pump amp at 30psi of boost can support 727whp. without the MSD unit the walbro 255 only supported 540whp.

edit: It also stated that two pumps in parallel do not flow twice that of the single pump. 2 pumps is parallel only flow 1.65 times a single pump. 3 pumps flow just shy 2 times the one pump at 1.95 x a single pump.


edit2: #### THAT it's like 258 bucs.

 

[4g63telantra]

Right now Im running a 255lp walbro fuel pump and was thinking about adding a another pump or even upgrade to a bigger inline one from aeromotive.

Just wanted to know if anyone here has ran a dual intank fuel pump with 2 fuel lines. I would some fittings on the sending unit up top to have 2 fuel lines coming from each pump (1 per pump).

Any pros/cons on running this kind of set up?