Dsmlink V3

[snowborder714]

After requesting permission from Tom, here are the images that are on the V3 thread in the DSMlink forum. Enjoy!

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Shows ECMLink running in OSX

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Shows ECMLink chip as well as daughter conversion board for 1g non-EPROM

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Please don't ask me any more questions about the software as I haven't had a chance to play with it yet.

 

[Hal]

If you have questions that are NOT related to pricing/availability post them up.

The beta testers have been given permission to answer them.

 

[mnetwork]

How is timing going to work.. what are those min/max octane and coolant temp timing maps?

 

[slipstream808]

I'm on the boards there but I figure I'll start by asking:

How stable is this program? Any crashes or major glitches? I know they will be sorted out but still, the less that is wrong now, the less time fixing it and the sooner it gets out. Thanks!

 

[jm1080]

Hmm, for me which would be better to get V2 or V3? seems like V3 is more advanced, im new to all this and once I get a new turbo upgrade, Ill be getting either DSMLink or DSMChips, but is DSMLink real simple to learn?

 

[1992awdlaser]

Hmm, for me which would be better to get V2 or V3? seems like V3 is more advanced, im new to all this and once I get a new turbo upgrade, Ill be getting either DSMLink or DSMChips, but is DSMLink real simple to learn?

Pos number 67 "It will have load based tuning AND the current style that dsmlink has. You will be able to choose between the two."

It's fairly easy to learn.

 

[92AWDHX40]

So it is coming out, i guess ill have to wait, and put that on my list of things to get. Looking foward to see what it can do.

 

[Black_Bullet]

Thats good that DSMLINK is finally going to load based tuning. Its so much more precise and gives you more to work with than some primitive sliders.

Hell I tune with Eprom chips/ williem eprom chip burner and the evilscribe tuning software doing my own chips on my home computer, and my evilscribe program offers better more fine timing/ afr adjustments than dsmlink v2 ever could. Thats why I never was really that much into the hype of dsmlink v2, especially for the cost differences of what mines has going on for it, but I can at least say the V2 is super idiot proof.
I have tuned my friends awd talon that runs dsmlink so I know how dsmlink works btw and found it very easy to do.

Now on another hand, for those who arent as savy in tuning and making load based adjusments
( Im sure the dsmlink forums will have a lot of help with that though ) Im curious to see how many people fvck something up trying to tune their car on that level without proper understanding of their entire timing maps and afr on a gm/rev airflow table...

 

[slipstream808]

Well, with any luck the community will pull together and support eachother. We'll learn from one another's mistakes.

 

[RipperXX]

I can't wait to see how much more people gain from V3 vs V2.

 

[sillycon]

How is timing going to work.. what are those min/max octane and coolant temp timing maps?

The min/max maps are the actual timing maps used by the ECU to calculate the targetted timing advance by load factor and rpm. The "max octane" one is used when the ECU has detected high-octane fuel, the "min octane" one is used when the ECU detects low-octane fuel (the determination is made through knock feedback).

The coolant temp timing map is a map in which the timing curve is adjusted based upon the coolant temperature. That map allows you to tailor the adjustments made by the ECU as needed for your specific car.

I'm on the boards there but I figure I'll start by asking:

How stable is this program? Any crashes or major glitches? I know they will be sorted out but still, the less that is wrong now, the less time fixing it and the sooner it gets out. Thanks!

So far the program is VERY stable and I've had no issues other than the expected beta quirks which, at this point, have pretty much all been resolved. The V3 product is VASTLY nicer than v2. After only two weeks of casual tinkering with it it's like nails on a chalkboard to go back to tuning a v2 setup on someone elses car. In short, if you're anything like me you'll be wondering how you lived so long without it.

Hmm, for me which would be better to get V2 or V3? seems like V3 is more advanced, im new to all this and once I get a new turbo upgrade, Ill be getting either DSMLink or DSMChips, but is DSMLink real simple to learn?

V3, by far. There is a greater learning curve to the v3 app, but it is ABSOLUTELY worth the extra effort. Also, the simplicity of the v2 application has been retained in v3 -- you do NOT need to use the advanced features if you don't want to; in fact, I would STRONGLY discourage much use of them until you fully do understand them.

So far as DSMChips vs ECMLink (as the new "DSMLink" product is called) is an apples and potatos comparison. They are totally different (and both very excellent) products, and as such serve totally different markets. Generally speaking, ECMLink is the product I'd suggest for most DSM owners given the level of "hands-on" interest we (as a group) tend to have.

 

[FonZ454]

The min/max maps are the actual timing maps used by the ECU to calculate the targetted timing advance by load factor and rpm. The "max octane" one is used when the ECU has detected high-octane fuel, the "min octane" one is used when the ECU detects low-octane fuel (the determination is made through knock feedback).

The coolant temp timing map is a map in which the timing curve is adjusted based upon the coolant temperature. That map allows you to tailor the adjustments made by the ECU as needed for your specific car.

So far the program is VERY stable and I've had no issues other than the expected beta quirks which, at this point, have pretty much all been resolved. The V3 product is VASTLY nicer than v2. After only two weeks of casual tinkering with it it's like nails on a chalkboard to go back to tuning a v2 setup on someone elses car. In short, if you're anything like me you'll be wondering how you lived so long without it.

V3, by far. There is a greater learning curve to the v3 app, but it is ABSOLUTELY worth the extra effort. Also, the simplicity of the v2 application has been retained in v3 -- you do NOT need to use the advanced features if you don't want to; in fact, I would STRONGLY discourage much use of them until you fully do understand them.

So far as DSMChips vs ECMLink (as the new "DSMLink" product is called) is an apples and potatos comparison. They are totally different (and both very excellent) products, and as such serve totally different markets. Generally speaking, ECMLink is the product I'd suggest for most DSM owners given the level of "hands-on" interest we (as a group) tend to have.

I must agree with everything you said. v3 is SO much nicer to use. Going back to v2.5 is so hard, as v3 spoils you with great features. Going through logs, the whole look of it all, the smoothness... It's just such a nicer program, IMO.

 

[jm1080]

Thats good that DSMLINK is finally going to load based tuning. Its so much more precise and gives you more to work with than some primitive sliders.

Hell I tune with Eprom chips/ williem eprom chip burner and the evilscribe tuning software doing my own chips on my home computer, and my evilscribe program offers better more fine timing/ afr adjustments than dsmlink v2 ever could. Thats why I never was really that much into the hype of dsmlink v2, especially for the cost differences of what mines has going on for it, but I can at least say the V2 is super idiot proof.
I have tuned my friends awd talon that runs dsmlink so I know how dsmlink works btw and found it very easy to do.

Now on another hand, for those who arent as savy in tuning and making load based adjusments
( Im sure the dsmlink forums will have a lot of help with that though ) Im curious to see how many people fvck something up trying to tune their car on that level without proper understanding of their entire timing maps and afr on a gm/rev airflow table...

I guess I meant is it easy to learn as in I dont know anything about tuning? How would I learn more about tuning as Im clueless and I dont want to mess up anything in my car, from the pics I saw I dont understand one thing except the rpms

 

[FonZ454]

I guess I meant is it easy to learn as in I dont know anything about tuning? How would I learn more about tuning as Im clueless and I dont want to mess up anything in my car, from the pics I saw I dont understand one thing except the rpms

It won't help in that sense. You have to do a lot of reading to really learn what you're doing. The DSMlink forums have a lot of great information. Even this site, and others have some good articles for basics on tuning.

 

[Black_Bullet]

I guess I meant is it easy to learn as in I dont know anything about tuning? How would I learn more about tuning as Im clueless and I dont want to mess up anything in my car, from the pics I saw I dont understand one thing except the rpms

Youll have to do some research, and Im sure the dsmlink board will be able to help a ton.

Shows ECMLink running in OSX

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

The V3 table looks a little different than the one I use to tune with on Evilscribe, so I hope I dont give any mis information here, but just a little bit of info to help you though, these pictures basically show your ecus timing/ afr gm/rev table of how it operates. You under stand the rpm part.
Well basically tuning with this you can be more specific in inputing different timing/ afr values at different engine loads... The engine load is based off of air flow ( nothing to do with throttle position, just how much air your reading/ digesting.)

Basically for starters, looking at the graph in that link above, moving towards the right with more rpm, and moving down with more airflow so in turn as you increase rpm and airflow you'll be moving to the right diagonally downwards. The more airflow the more you'll notice the timing will drop rapidly as you move across the graph. This is were you will have to learn about what type of timing, afr is nessecary at what rpm/ air flow for your particular setup, which can vary based on octane of fuel used, displacement, compression, aftermarket mods, intercooler efficency, boost level, etc. Less airflow, generally more timing and leaner AFR's. By the time it reaches the last 3 or 4 load rows at the bottom of the graph your basically at wot at full boost...

Hope that helps any, kind of hard to explain.

 

[sillycon]

Again, learning how to tune based on load is NOT REQUIRED. The standard v2 "slider" method which applies only to WOT is still there for those less advanced/less interested in tuning theory.

 

[jm1080]

Youll have to do some research, and Im sure the dsmlink board will be able to help a ton.




The V3 table looks a little different than the one I use to tune with on Evilscribe, so I hope I dont give any mis information here, but just a little bit of info to help you though, these pictures basically show your ecus timing/ afr gm/rev table of how it operates. You under stand the rpm part.
Well basically tuning with this you can be more specific in inputing different timing/ afr values at different engine loads... The engine load is based off of air flow ( nothing to do with throttle position, just how much air your reading/ digesting.)

Basically for starters, looking at the graph in that link above, moving towards the right with more rpm, and moving down with more airflow so in turn as you increase rpm and airflow you'll be moving to the right diagonally downwards. The more airflow the more you'll notice the timing will drop rapidly as you move across the graph. This is were you will have to learn about what type of timing, afr is nessecary at what rpm/ air flow for your particular setup, which can vary based on octane of fuel used, displacement, compression, aftermarket mods, intercooler efficency, boost level, etc. Less airflow, generally more timing and leaner AFR's. By the time it reaches the last 3 or 4 load rows at the bottom of the graph your basically at wot at full boost...

Hope that helps any, kind of hard to explain.

Thanks for the help, I understand the graph how you can move the sliders, I just dont want to mess anything up once I do buy this, if I do. The reason why I was just going off to buy DSMChips is because you just tell them what to set and your all set, dont really have to learn or waste time on trying to figure out things, etc.

But is there any site besides DSMLink forums that teaches you on tuning? something like VFAQ but on tuning? Just to learn terminology basically.

 

[snowborder714]

start [ECMTuning - wiki]
1992 Talon Tsi AWD Project

 

[Black_Bullet]

Thanks for the help, I understand the graph how you can move the sliders, I just dont want to mess anything up once I do buy this, if I do. The reason why I was just going off to buy DSMChips is because you just tell them what to set and your all set, dont really have to learn or waste time on trying to figure out things, etc.

But is there any site besides DSMLink forums that teaches you on tuning? something like VFAQ but on tuning? Just to learn terminology basically.

Learning, and tuneing yourself is the fun part in my opinion.
I never understood why people pay hundreds and hundreds to get someone else to tune their street driven cars for them with the same tools that they could use to tune themselves with. (Minus dyno of course.)
Its just all learning and experimenting. Theres no one be all tune for any car.

Its good to see that V3 offers the sliders and other similar features as V2 so that people will still feel at home when coming from v2 to v3.

As far as getting someone to burn you a dsmchip, its cool and all if you dont ever plan on changeing your tune from whatever that chip is set to, and still better than piggyback i.e. safc; but it can be very limited in adjustability, unless you burn your own chips for yourself like I do.

For one, if you ever wanted to raise or lower the boost, and dial in new afr's or timing advances due to new mods etc you would have to send it back off to get reburned by whoever reburned you...
Also keep in the mind the guy who would be burning your chips isnt going to know your car better than you do, and he doesnt know exactly what works best with YOUR car since he hasnt experimented with your car, and you wont know what works best for your car either since you havent experimented with your car either, so the guy burning your dsmchip is just going to give you a general safe tune. and this is were tuning yourself, ( expecially on a dyno) and going thru the trial and error to see what works best is a plus.

You can even just visit the Tuning/Engine management threads on this site and there are good threads in there with info on the basics of tuning these cars, or you can just search around online to help you better understand the theory of tuning.
A few more links that may help you get started

The DSM ECU Timing Curve
EFI University Electronic Fuel Injection Tuning :: View Forum - Tuning Tips
Logger Tuning
TMO Datalogger 101
http://www.max-boost.co.uk/max-boost/Heat Exchanger Theory and Intercoolers.htm
Tuning the LET

Hope that helps...

 

[olmytsi]

Can anyone give a basic explanation of load tuning?

 

[Black_Bullet]

Can anyone give a basic explanation of load tuning?

I gave my best shot at explaining it with post #90 in this thread.

 

[olmytsi]

So pretty much if you don't know what you are doing, you could #### shit up tuning by load

 

[Black_Bullet]

So pretty much if you don't know what you are doing, you could #### shit up tuning by load

Technically yes, thats why people who tune with AEM have proffessional tuners tune them.
But like the other guy mentioned, the V3 will still have sliders, and Im sure it will give you stock like timing tables to start off with, and the changes you make will just have to be done in small incriments until you figure out the ideal tune.. Besides most of our changes will be at WOT which are obvious, tuning partial throttle, lower rpms may be a little more tricky so a basic understanding will still be required, Im sure there will be numerous threads popping up for people to learn from and reference to as to were it wont be such a big deal.

 

[jm1080]

Thanks for the links guys, time to study

There should be tuning classes. Or maby there are?

 

[Boostjunki84]

Wow. It's been a while since I checked this thread. Glad to see that testing with v3 is going well.