DSMLink V3?

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

If you ever map-trace multiple pulls on a MAF car you'll see why speed density is a superior way to tune on a turbo car. With MAF, you're pretty much forced to fudge it by RPM and throttle. The real thing you're trying to tune around is boost. When boost comes on the jump from one section of the map to the next section occurs in such a way that it's very difficult to tune the portion of the map that includes the spool up. Then there's the problem of, if you hit the throttle later in the RPM range, spool comes different, so you have to tune it around your driving habits. With speed density, you get the same spool up behavior no matter what condition you hit the pedal. It's been done by a couple of us already on 1Gs, i don't see a conversion in DSMlink too far away.

what i do find hilarious though, is that they are finally adding a lot of things it looks like, that many people (including myself) have said it needed a long time ago, but at the time we were called idiots that don't know anything because we asked for those features. looks like they came around and realized how far behind they were vs their capability.

 

[dsm-onster]

Speed density has many benefits. The GM MAF's offer far less restriction than the stock maf sensor, but they still are a restriction, I've heard reports of stock camaro's and transams gaining horsepower with a switch to freer flowing aftermarket maf.

HMM. from my research this increase in power was primarily from the revised sensor causing a leaner run.

Also load based maps, ability to log boost pressure and intake temp, I know you can do this with out speed density but its alot more work in comparison, considering its already done with speed density.

This is not hard to do w/ dsmlink at all whatsoever... But your right, I can see it being very difficult w/ any run-of-the-mill standard piggyback.

Its well know that you can no longer trust the logged airflow values of the maft setup's especially when in blow thru, so accurate airflow numbers is another benifit.I can already do everything else I would ever want to do with my eprom, having to retune the VE is no big deal unless you are constantly changing parts.

But the MAFt can be calibrated in DSMLink. This brings accuracy back.

Another thing to think about, how many race engines do you see with maf sensor's? I can't think of many if any, there's got to be a reason for this.

This is probably because of what HighPSI TSi Guy said about the onset of boost.

 

[dsm-onster]

If you ever map-trace multiple pulls on a MAF car you'll see why speed density is a superior way to tune on a turbo car. With MAF, you're pretty much forced to fudge it by RPM and throttle. The real thing you're trying to tune around is boost. When boost comes on the jump from one section of the map to the next section occurs in such a way that it's very difficult to tune the portion of the map that includes the spool up. Then there's the problem of, if you hit the throttle later in the RPM range, spool comes different, so you have to tune it around your driving habits. With speed density, you get the same spool up behavior no matter what condition you hit the pedal. It's been done by a couple of us already on 1Gs, i don't see a conversion in DSMlink too far away.

Excellent point!!!

So then, obviously speed density gives you a better final product, once tuned.

 

[1990EclipseGSX]

Excellent point!!!

So then, obviously speed density gives you a better final product, once tuned.

Yes, but the "once tuned" is the key part there. Getting to that point with speed density is going to be much more time consuming than most people assume.

 

[dsm-onster]

Yes, but the "once tuned" is the key part there. Getting to that point with speed density is going to be much more time consuming than most people assume.

I agree.

 

[Marc91GSX]

what i do find hilarious though, is that they are finally adding a lot of things it looks like, that many people (including myself) have said it needed a long time ago, but at the time we were called idiots that don't know anything because we asked for those features. looks like they came around and realized how far behind they were vs their capability.

That is basically just a broad base of ideas that they are researching to put into DSMlink. Like I said Thomas is looking into the possiblillity of adding those features if they are feasible so not all of the items listed will make it inot version 3..

 

[Baron4406]

Right now I'm using an old piggyback system called a PMS, it was made by EFI. It uses a MAP sensor and an intake air temp sensor. You can add fuel according to boost pressure and adjust timing according to boost also. I can tell you it works VERY well but since there is only a 550 program to start out with you are kinda on your own if you run bigger injectors. I guy on the PMS board is running 660's and it handles them very well. However next year I was gonna go alot bigger, and was actually thinking of getting DSM Link now. So you telling me I lose the Map sensor if I do and lose that boost fuel table?? So how does DSM Link know if you are in boost?? Darn you guys may have jus talked me out of DSM Link.......

 

[90AWDTalon]

So how does DSM Link know if you are in boost?? Darn you guys may have jus talked me out of DSM Link.......

It doesn't, all the maps are based on airflow. One of the main reason I want to go speed desity.

 

[Ultimatedsm]

Where I work deal with ECM Tuning, and there is no plan in the near future bringing the DSMLINK V3's out anytime soon, lots of bugs so far.

 

[tstkl]

Where I work deal with ECM Tuning, and there is no plan in the near future bringing the DSMLINK V3's out anytime soon, lots of bugs so far.

are we talking late summer, next winter, next year? give us like a two month time frame if you could please. it would be nice if you said, dsmlink v3 should come out june-july, but dont get your hopes up or something like that. obviously we wont burn your houses down if you dont meet this deadline.

 

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

Right now I'm using an old piggyback system called a PMS, it was made by EFI. It uses a MAP sensor and an intake air temp sensor. You can add fuel according to boost pressure and adjust timing according to boost also. I can tell you it works VERY well but since there is only a 550 program to start out with you are kinda on your own if you run bigger injectors. I guy on the PMS board is running 660's and it handles them very well. However next year I was gonna go alot bigger, and was actually thinking of getting DSM Link now. So you telling me I lose the Map sensor if I do and lose that boost fuel table?? So how does DSM Link know if you are in boost?? Darn you guys may have jus talked me out of DSM Link.......

switch to an EPROM and chip the ECU for the injectors... would that work? i dunno much about the PMS

 

[fostytou]

gear specific boost control or a way to output to the gear to an AVC-R would probably be the singlemost beneficial addition for me. With a GT-35R and FWD the greddy profec boost switch just isn't that great.

 

[Baron4406]

switch to an EPROM and chip the ECU for the injectors... would that work? i dunno much about the PMS

I already have a socketed/chipped ECU- its a Technomotive stage 3. The main problem as people started getting real big they simply went to dedicated standalones. The PMS can function as a standalone, but as far I haven't been willing to try. Really I guess you could use a chip for the big injectors, but the TMO stage 3 ECU is a cool item and I'm hesitant to lose it. In the DSM world the PMS is a dead system, however if you do a web search the Ford and Mazda guys still use it and really like it. I just think DSMLink is a little more flexable and i wanted to try it. However now I see a major problem. I like to run my Profec in low boost and high boost modes. Since the PMS adds fuel accoring to what boost level I'm at it doesn't matter if I'm running 13psi of boost or 22 lbs- as long as I'm set up to account for that high amount of boost it will run great at either setting. This is another question no on seems to be able to answer, can DSMLink do that??

 

[Steve93Talon]

switch to an EPROM and chip the ECU for the injectors... would that work? i dunno much about the PMS

By that same thought you could keep the PMS in the loop with DSMlink, using it mainly for the MAP conversion. We're doing the same thing with a VPC + Link right now, albiet with some mixed results so far.

DSMlink does have the ability to run a basic speed density mode already. You still need a MAF in the system, but it'll switch over at a set Hz and then run off of the adjustable VE table. You can also incorporate a MAP sensor into this setup. (link users, I'm just pointing this out for non-owners)

 

[HighPSI TSi Guy]

I already have a socketed/chipped ECU- its a Technomotive stage 3. The main problem as people started getting real big they simply went to dedicated standalones. The PMS can function as a standalone, but as far I haven't been willing to try. Really I guess you could use a chip for the big injectors, but the TMO stage 3 ECU is a cool item and I'm hesitant to lose it. In the DSM world the PMS is a dead system, however if you do a web search the Ford and Mazda guys still use it and really like it. I just think DSMLink is a little more flexable and i wanted to try it. However now I see a major problem. I like to run my Profec in low boost and high boost modes. Since the PMS adds fuel accoring to what boost level I'm at it doesn't matter if I'm running 13psi of boost or 22 lbs- as long as I'm set up to account for that high amount of boost it will run great at either setting. This is another question no on seems to be able to answer, can DSMLink do that??

you can have your chip compensated for your injector size and keep all the TMO code. If i had a burner i could do iy for you, but unfortunately I don't. Hit up keydiver, I dunno his price off hand, but he can do it.

 

[Maglin]

Wow is all I can say. The "The MAF doesn't kow when the car is in boost" is very very moot point. All a turbo does is force more air into the engine dynamicly increasing VE. Air is air and it doesn't care about boost pressure. 3g of air is still 3g of air no matter what. A lot of other people are switching from MAP (SD) to MAF systems as they are far more accurate than going off of mainifold pressure and air temp.

Everything that is being discussed for the DSMLink v3 has already been implimented in EPROM coding for the 1G. I have the code to run SD with the 1G ECU. It's pretty nice as it allowed to tuen from your Palm. Nick Pudhead developed the code. And being albe to run the GM MAF w/o MAFT code has been around as well. Are the DSMLink guys just taking this code and making it their own? I don't know but it's funny how this stuff came about for the EPROM ECU projects after v2 and now v3 is going to incorporate these features.

I'm currently running a 1G EPROM ecu w/ native W/B. Double load tables so I can tune up to think it's 5.3 g/s of airflow, stutterbox ect.... I have a lot of work I put into my ECU. I've played a lot with the SD code but I decided not to run it. MAF is easier to tune with. I also have a MSnS ECU that I'm planning on installing in the near future with a 4 BAR MAP. My car is changing from DD to Drag only. I would prefer to run a MAS but for this set-up currently running a MAP is easier to do atm.

I haven't been on the tuners forums in some time and they have changed a lot as far as info is conserned. My buddies are telling me that they to go DSMtalk now for good information. It's a shame. And a well tuned SD system will run just as good as a well tuned MAS system. The actually tuning is the only thing that is harded with the SD system. It's just easier to tweak a MAS system based on load/RPM instead of MAP/RPM. I've personallly also tuned the PFC and it's ok. It's pretty popular on the Celica's that are runnig turbo's. It's basicly just a AFC that running on MAP and converts to a Hz signal and also collects data from a MAF as well. I don't like them but they do work pretty good. Better than the VPC as it's programable. VPC requries a lot of programming skill to play with it's code and that is also reversed engineered just like the ECU programming was done.