2G DSM reverse pattern shifting, 3G shifter or B&M Stealth Ratchet shifter

[Bleakley]

F4A33, IPT Valve body, Forced Four SMART 100.1 TCU, Polyurethane mounts, probably going to order IPT end clutch.
Trying to decide whether to go with the 3G shifter or a B&M Stealth Pro Ratchet.

The question I have on the manual valve is...
(Snip. See posts #3 and #10)

3G Features / Pros I’m looking at:
-3G shifter seems fairly bolt in.
-Can program slap shift/shift box to start off in 3rd gear
-reverse pattern by switching wiring.

B&M Features / Pros I’m looking at:
-Full useage of manual valve potentially (If that would / could be of any advantage to me possibly)
-Utilize stock placements of armature on trans, but now in a ratchet setup, and can have two buttons for upshift/downshift when just in D
This is the reason for the question regarding power valve —> If the power valve does nothing in L-D. I can swap the wiring for L and D and utilize the B&M in reverse pattern so up shifts can be done more naturally upon accelerating and downshifts can be done more naturally upon braking.

 

[Bleakley]

Maybe a simpler way of asking is:
Can I buy the B&M ratchet shifter and utilize it as a reverse pattern ratchet shifter.

I’d like to be able to do —> P,R,N,1,2,D
I want 3 options when TCU is on, with the ability to switch between the 3.
1) The option of manually shifting the car with the ratchet shifter, and that’s it.
2) the option of leaving it in D and having shift box control trans.
3) The option of leaving it in D and letting the stock TCU shift the transmission.

When the TCU is off, I’d like it to be stock with the exception I’m now using a ratchet shifter to cycle the selector instead of the stock shifter.

 

[Bleakley]

Boom! Answered my own question regarding manual valve.
Manual valve shows virtually no difference for “D”, “2”, “L” positions per FSM.

 

[Bleakley]

I'm doing it. More I think about it, the ratchet shifter is more my style.
Gonna have it set up where it's stock to start. Except it'll be P,R,N,L,2,D instead of P,R,N,D,2,L.
Toggle switch to turn on my TCU I gotta think of where to mount.

Then two toggles on the shifter bezel for auto/manual mode and sport/economy mode.

Gonna make it so once ECU is turned on it'll be in manual mode (I’ll have to ratchet down to D anyway. Once in D I can flip the switch to automatic and utilize the sport/economy maps. Most of my driving will prob be spent in manual mode (unless on highway) and will fab / reuse the OD button from the stock shifter and probably mount it directly on top of my ratchet shifter.

Just like the remote start thread, I’ll try and report back with results.

 

[OH91awd]

Maybe a simpler way of asking is:
Can I buy the B&M ratchet shifter and utilize it as a reverse pattern ratchet shifter.

I’d like to be able to do —> P,R,N,1,2,D
I want 3 options when TCU is on, with the ability to switch between the 3.
1) The option of manually shifting the car with the ratchet shifter, and that’s it.
2) the option of leaving it in D and manually shifting it with buttons.
3) The option of leaving it in D and letting the shift box shift the transmission.

When the TCU is off, I’d like it to be stock with the exception I’m now using a ratchet shifter to cycle the selector instead of the stock shifter.

the only way to get a ratchet style shifter like that to work in a reverse parttern is to have a reverse pattern valve body which nobody makes. if youre wanting to do a reverse shift pattern you need the 3g shifter or buttons to shift it.

 

[Bleakley]

I’m gonna call that false.
I don’t think you do.

I’ll go home today and look at the entire hydraulic circuits this time instead of just the power valve.
But at this time, from the FSM looking over I’ve done. There is nothing in the valve body preventing it from being setup reverse pattern.

I’ll give an example. What’s stopping me from switching D and L via wiring? If that’s the only thing holding me back from achieving P,R,N,L,2,D. (Which I think that’s the only thing in my way)

Out of ALLLL the threads I’ve read I’ve only seen people saying no. But not giving the reason for why it can’t be done. If it can not be done I need the proof and reasoning supporting why.
It does strike me as odd no one has done this before (which that alone would make me think there’s something I’m missing). BUT, maybe I’m the only one who’s looked at it like this? *shrugs*

Edit: Another example / way of saying it. I’ve seen the video on the 3g shifter used for reverse pattern. You just said no one makes a reverse pattern valve body.
Then how’s he doing it? (We both know the answer is electronically) Again. Reversing the stock wiring should help me achieve the goal.

 

[OH91awd]

I’m gonna call that false.
I don’t think you do.

I’ll go home today and look at the entire hydraulic circuits this time instead of just the power valve.
But at this time, from the FSM looking over I’ve done. There is nothing in the valve body preventing it from being setup reverse pattern.

I’ll give an example. What’s stopping me from switching D and L via wiring? If that’s the only thing holding me back from achieving P,R,N,L,2,D. (Which I think that’s the only thing in my way)

Out of ALLLL the threads I’ve read I’ve only seen people saying no. But not giving the reason for why it can’t be done. If it can not be done I need the proof and reasoning supporting why.
It does strike me as odd no one has done this before (which that alone would make me think there’s something I’m missing). BUT, maybe I’m the only one who’s looked at it like this? *shrugs*

Edit: Another example / way of saying it. I’ve seen the video on the 3g shifter used for reverse pattern. You just said no one makes a reverse pattern valve body.
Then how’s he doing it? (We both know the answer is electronically) Again. Reversing the stock wiring should help me achieve the goal.

I’d like to know how you’re changing the channels of fluid flow in the stock valve body For each gear then?
As far as the 3g shifter goes you’re just changing the electrical sides of the switch to change how you pull the handle to change the gear. The ratchet shifter isn’t doing anything electrical it’s all mechanical. Switching solenoid wires isn’t going to change the mechanics of how the valve body flows. I run a 3g shifter so I know how to wire for it to shift either way. But that’s not going to change the mechanical side of the shift pattern

 

[Bleakley]

I need pictures to reinforce what I am saying / trying to say. Rather than just type, I want to show and explain what I’m talking about. Be back in ~15 minutes sir.

 

[OH91awd]

I need pictures to reinforce what I am saying / trying to say. Rather than just type, I want to show and explain what I’m talking about. Be back in ~15 minutes sir.

if this was a simple solution to do, dont you think the big guys like kiggly, aaron gregory, or any of the other fast auto dsms would have done this?

 

[Bleakley]

Okay. I just looked at the hydraulic circuits again. If I’m missing something, please point it out.
I am claiming there is nothing preventing us from going reverse pattern if we want to.

I don’t know, maybe they chose not to? I would love for them to shed light on the topic if they could.

Im going to continue posting some info.
Traditionally, we are prevented from going reverse pattern due to the design of the valve body and manual valve (first photo).
Just like we both agree on —> The manual valve only allows fluid into the respective circuits necessary for gear 1,2,3, etc. Impossible to reverse the order without redesigning / refabbing that section of the valve body in order to get fluid to where you want it to go.

However, I’m thinking a lot of people have overlooked that we are not bound by that dilemma (Next few pictures). This is L and D. Pay close attention to the 3 openings where fluid enters / leaves.
Virtually no change. Yes, the valve moves. However, no ports are opened up or closed off moving anywhere between L,2, and D.

So again. I’m asking / thinking out loud. I’m wondering if I was to make some wiring changes, I’m thinking it’s possible to achieve what I am after.
Reverse pattern shifting. Instead of forward pattern of P,R,N,D,2,L —> I can reverse pattern with P,R,N,L,2,D

Edit: correct pictures uploaded now.
Omg, last edit: Pictures are now the correct ones I wanted to use as examples. Lol.

 

[donniekak]

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You can always use a solenoid to shift a stock shifter like my buddy Garrett.

 

[OH91awd]

i would get ahold of kiggly before i done anything. kevin has the most knowledge of anone when it comes to the dsm auto trans. if it can be done he would know. something about those diagrams isnt right. if the manual valve did nothing there wouldnt be one in the there.

 

[OH91awd]

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You can always use a solenoid to shift a stock shifter like my buddy Garrett.

thats promod stuff

 

[Bleakley]

i would get ahold of kiggly before i done anything. kevin has the most knowledge of anone when it comes to the dsm auto trans. if it can be done he would know. something about those diagrams isnt right. if the manual valve did nothing there wouldnt be one in the there.

Okay, I’ll try. Thanks. Manual valve is still there for everything else —> Park, Neutral, Reverse, etc.
I agree though, odd they didn’t really use it for any of the forward gears like countless other transmissions have.
Do I message kiggly on here? Contact via the website? What’s best way to get ahold of him.

 

[donniekak]

One of kigglys mods is to wire up the shifter to shift electronically.

https://bd2676c2-1d1a-42eb-b758-7f8...d/0a98b0_6b0bdc68c333495dbaf820c1f1d04f43.pdf

 

[OH91awd]

Okay, I’ll try. Thanks. Manual valve is still there for everything else —> Park, Neutral, Reverse, etc.
I agree though, odd they didn’t really use it for any of the forward gears like countless other transmissions have.
Do I message kiggly on here? Contact via the website? What’s best way to get ahold of him.

should be an email on the website. im not sure how often they get on here

 

[Bleakley]

Emailed Kevin. Hope he can hop in here for a few to confirm or deny as I think that’d be badass.
Some more information. My proposition to accomplish what I’m after is swapping D and L electrically.
Provided is the wiring diagram. The switch is an input to the TCU depending on position.
Just like the Ratchet shifter is mostly mechanical, so is the stock shifter with the exception of the OD switch.
So when I’m wiring up everything else, I’m going to swap pins 9 & 10 at the A-101 connector, or swap pins 34 and 36 at the B-62 connector.

This should allow me to now have a reverse pattern.


Please note: I don’t really recommend doing this with the stock shifter due to the lockouts when trying to pull shifter towards you for selections.

 

[Bleakley]

For reverse pattern, I look at the 3G shifter and the Ratchet shifter accomplishing the exact same thing just in a different sequence (also with the ratchet utilizing factory switch(es) / wiring and the 3G just having to add a couple more wires for manumatic ops)

The ratchet shifter will start off manual (or stay manual if it’s setup for full time), then go full auto.
The 3G shifter starts off full auto, but then goes manual.


For forward pattern, I consider them ALMOST equal. Each having trade off(s).

 

[OH91awd]

For reverse pattern, I look at the 3G shifter and the Ratchet shifter accomplishing the exact same thing just in a different sequence (also with the ratchet utilizing factory switch(es) / wiring and the 3G just having to add a couple more wires for manumatic ops)

The ratchet shifter will start off manual (or stay manual if it’s setup for full time), then go full auto.
The 3G shifter starts off full auto, but then goes manual.


For forward pattern, I consider them ALMOST equal. Each having trade off(s).

for me the 3g shifter/ shift box just went directly through the solenoid wiring and used the shift output on the shiftbox on the shifter. i dont run the stock tcu its all controlled by the shiftbox/ shifter. nothing really outside the norm. mine always gets manually shifted.

 

[Bleakley]

Anyone have a shit valve body they can send me? I’ll pay for shipping and toss you like $20 for the trouble.

I have a couple, but don’t want to cut up a good one if I don’t have to.
Going to take a bandsaw and cut down the centerline of the bore for the manual valve.

If you have one you can donate to the cause, text or call me @ (863)5Three2-8Eight31.
If I don’t get a response from anyone in a week or so I’m just gonna cut one of mine up.

 

[kiggly]

You could absolutely set up the shifter to be reverse pattern. All shifting L-2-D is electronic and all of these positions have the same physical hydraulic scenario in the transmission. Most of the fast guys are having their ECU's shift their cars. I gave into that trend in 2019 and really like it. Also, for cars running low 8's or faster I would rather see the ECU shifting it, the OEM shift selector electronics on the transmission can sometimes be vibration sensitive and have some inconsistent power to the solenoids in very high vibration cars. This has not particularly been a consistent thing.