ECMlink Diagnose Log Please!

[projekt1]

Still getting the hang of link. All the basics have been done ie. boost leak, base timing and global setting. New O2, checked the knock sensor, no goo or sticky anything. Cant get rid of knock, that is knock retard in link, CEL on dash. In first it comes on as early as 2800rpm then later in second and even later in third.

1st and 2nd logs are cruise. 3rd log is semi pull or acceleration.

Please ask any ?'s and please help.

Thanks guys.

Some one please give up some advice.. I know there's a plethora of knoledge out there.. At the very least can I continue driving it? If so, for how many miles at a time? I tend to drive about 120 miles round trip sometimes. I don't go WOT because I hit knock soon.

I've been reding other threads and they have had some good feedback. Is it too much to ask for advice, help .. Well thanks guys.

 

[400hp93talon]

I cant look at your logs i dont have the software on this comp. what degree is your timing when your cruising and what is at right before it knocks in the pull in third gear. I know just by lookin on my car while i drive it the timing should be advanced when its running on vaccum and retarded in boost all depending on how much vaccum or boost your running and your throttle position. Ive been researchin alot on ecmlink.com and its pretty hard to learn on your own and it seems alot of guys on here dont like to share their secrets when it comes to tuning or even most people dont know anything about it cause they are scared to try. Ill try to get it to where i can read your logs and try to help you out.

 

[projekt1]

I cant look at your logs i dont have the software on this comp. what degree is your timing when your cruising and what is at right before it knocks in the pull in third gear.

When I'm cruising when knock comes on is between 31* and 34*. Cruise without knock is about the same, 31* to 37*. I haven't done any pulls because I recently put in a new clutch kit but maybe next week Ill be able to do some good pulls.
The most I have gone is about RPM 6454, KnockRet 14.8*, IDC 149.7%, ThrotPos 62%, timing 6.4*, BoostEst 24.6-inHg/+psi, CoolTemp 206*F, AFRatioEst 14.6:1. I know that is really bad thats why I'm trying to get some help and advice.

I know just by lookin on my car while i drive it the timing should be advanced when its running on vaccum and retarded in boost all depending on how much vaccum or boost your running and your throttle position. Ive been researchin alot on ecmlink.com and its pretty hard to learn on your own and it seems alot of guys on here dont like to share their secrets when it comes to tuning or even most people dont know anything about it cause they are scared to try. Ill try to get it to where i can read your logs and try to help you out.

WORD! Lol I understand that some folks might be reluctant to share some info with newbies like myself because they dont want to be blamed for any damage that might occur from their advice but some advice is better than none and we newbies understand the risks involved in taking advice and implying it to our DSM's.

I did get a reply on the Link forum that it might be my injectors are WAY to small for my setup. I hope this is true as it does make sense so I'm going to put some 680's that my friend has temporarily. I then will look in the classifieds for something bigger. Maybe down the road Ill have money for some new 1000cc or bigger injectors.

More advice would still be appreciated guys, thanks.

Thanks for replying 400hp93talon!

 

[Imback]

Is the maf calibrated? Also are your LTFT lo,mid,hi in cheek?

 

[projekt1]

Is the maf calibrated? Also are your LTFT lo,mid,hi in cheek?

DSMlink MAS/MAF Calibration Page I know that's what I have to use and I have read that but I haven't done it mainly because I don't have a boost gauge but I will try to take care of that tomorrow. And as a newbie I would have not thought to do that as well so thanks for asking As for the fuel trims (I think that's what the LTFT lo,mid,hi is for) yes I have tweaked them some using GMAF Calibration for LTFT but not sure what the "cheek in" is

 

[Ceddy]

You are getting tons of knock, when your are in vacuum.

Could be Phantom Knock.

Are your Lifters ticking loud?

Check for loose heat shields, or anything that could cause mechanical vibration or noise.

 

[Calan]

The most I have gone is about RPM 6454, KnockRet 14.8*, IDC 149.7%, ThrotPos 62%, timing 6.4*, BoostEst 24.6-inHg/+psi, CoolTemp 206*F

Any updated logs?

First of all... TURN THE BOOST DOWN. At 44 seconds into the last log, with IDC's of 149%, you are running extremely lean and could be putting your motor in danger. You have some phantom knock showing up also, but that knock when you go open loop is real.

You need to:

1. Turn the boost down...did I mention that?

2. Make sure your global settings are correct for the injectors you are running.

3. Get a boost sensor hooked up so you can log it in link, or at the very least a boost gauge. A wideband wouldn't hurt either. Without at least one of them, you're going to have a lot harder time getting a decent tune.

4. You need to set preferences for BoostEst and AFRatioEst. If you are running pure gas, the specific gravity should be .72 in AFRatioEst, and you need to set your altitude in BoostEst. (I'm guessing this is a 2.0l and not a stroker?)

5. Follow the instructions on the ECMLink Wiki and get your MAF calibrated.

6. Verify base timing is at 5* BTDC, no boost leaks, fuel pressure at 37 psi, etc.

7. On the "Dash" tab in Link...set your Knock CEL to come on at 3*, and set the boost gauge to read knock. If it climbs up towards halfway, get out of the gas.

8. To get rid of some of the phantom knock...Change the values on the ALS/Knck tab so the ECU ignores the knock sensor when the car is in closed loop and not really in danger of truly knocking (assuming the fuel trims aren't maxed and the closed loop tune is close). I use 3000 rpms and 50% throttle...but YMMV. You may want to start more conservatively (like 2500 rpms, 30% throttle) and go up from there if you need to.

Although you need bigger injectors if you are gonna push that much air, the ones you have can work at lower boost levels on your 16g once everything is correctly set up...unless you are running E85.

Turn your boost down until you get the car tuned... did I mention that?

 

[projekt1]

Any updated logs?

First of all... TURN THE BOOST DOWN. At 44 seconds into the last log, with IDC's of 149%, you are running extremely lean and could be putting your motor in danger. You have some phantom knock showing up also, but that knock when you go open loop is real.

You need to:

1. Turn the boost down...did I mention that?

2. Make sure your global settings are correct for the injectors you are running.

Global setting are good and in a few I'm going to my friends to do the swap so Ill make sure to redo the global settings.

3. Get a boost sensor hooked up so you can log it in link, or at the very least a boost gauge. A wideband wouldn't hurt either. Without at least one of them, you're going to have a lot harder time getting a decent tune.

I know I NEED those three but I dont have the funds right now. I wil definetly get them soon though.

4. You need to set preferences for BoostEst and AFRatioEst. If you are running pure gas, the specific gravity should be .72 in AFRatioEst, and you need to set your altitude in BoostEst. (I'm guessing this is a 2.0l and not a stroker?)

For the AFRatioEst, the SG shows 0.76. on its own, is that ok or put .72? On the injector flow rate it had the injectors at 450 and fuel pressure at 43.5 so I adjusted those. Good thing your giving me homework .

5. Follow the instructions on the ECMLink Wiki and get your MAF calibrated.

After the swap I plan on doing this.

6. Verify base timing is at 5* BTDC, no boost leaks, fuel pressure at 37 psi, etc.

Base timing is right on 5*BTDC, fue pressure good and for boost leaks well, I did have one a week ago that I fixed the only thing now is a small leak from the throttle body that again, once I have funds I will send to throttlebodys.com to get rebuilt.

7. On the "Dash" tab in Link...set your Knock CEL to come on at 3*, and set the boost gauge to read knock. If it climbs up towards halfway, get out of the gas.

WillCo

8. To get rid of some of the phantom knock...Change the values on the ALS/Knck tab so the ECU ignores the knock sensor when the car is in closed loop and not really in danger of truly knocking (assuming the fuel trims aren't maxed and the closed loop tune is close). I use 3000 rpms and 50% throttle...but YMMV. You may want to start more conservatively (like 2500 rpms, 30% throttle) and go up from there if you need to.

WillCo

Although you need bigger injectors if you are gonna push that much air, the ones you have can work at lower boost levels on your 16g once everything is correctly set up...unless you are running E85.

I made a jerry rigged a MBC that seems didn't work so again, I need funds .

Turn your boost down until you get the car tuned... did I mention that?

Sure did and thanks for the help. I will post a log once I do the swap and maf calibration and other things that might help.

 

[Calan]

I know I NEED those three but I dont have the funds right now. I wil definetly get them soon though.

No excuse!

I'm sure you can pick up a decent boost/vac gauge for $10-20 used, and you can buy the parts to build a reliable MBC from Home Depot for about $15.

You have to get your boost under control and have a way to monitor it before you can safely do anything at all with the tune. Make that your #1 priority, assuming all the maintenance is done.

 

[400hp93talon]

Thanks for helpin this guy out calan!!!

If you have to drive your car anywhere STAY OUT BOOST!

 

[projekt1]

Update: I put in my friends PTE 680's for now. IDC are a little bit better but I need bigger injectors so I'm still knocking. Still waiting for my friend to let me use his boost gauge so I can calibrate the MAF. I will try to stay off the boost. However, I did take 3 logs just a little bit ago. Let me know what you guys think. Yes, you can keep reminding me to turn down the boost and stay off of it

Thanks fellas!

 

[Calan]

Not much more advice I can give until get your MAF calibrated and you have a way to monitor your boost level. Still need to set your properties for AFRatioEst and BoostEst.

Oh yeah... turn down the boost and stay off of it . You're still knocking like crazy and probably pushing way too much airflow for those injectors.

 

[LandoAWD]

How'd Link get bought without a boost gauge (the FIRST mod for a boosted car...ALWAYS)?

 

[projekt1]

How'd Link get bought without a boost gauge (the FIRST mod for a boosted car...ALWAYS)?

. I'm not the type of person to have a million gauges and displays everywhere in the car just because I dont like the attention. but like Calan said, NO EXCUSE!


Hey Calan, I did adjust the AFRatioEst like 3 times. The last time I connected the link and right clicked on the AFRatioEst to go to the settings it did show that I had changed it. Is it back to the stock 2g settings again from my last logs? Is there a special way the settings have to be set to be saved throught the car?

 

[LandoAWD]

Fair enough, but realize you're playing with fire not having one. One gauge or a motor?

I'm sure you're on the right track now, but TURN THE BOOST DOWN!

 

[snowborder714]

. I'm not the type of person to have a million gauges and displays everywhere in the car just because I dont like the attention. but like Calan said, NO EXCUSE!

Then invest in a MAP sensor. Nothing to watch, but can be logged through link. I barely use my boost gauge anymore, except when I'm setting my boost. Anything dealing with tuning I use the logged MAP sensor.

Is it back to the stock 2g settings again from my last logs? Is there a special way the settings have to be set to be saved throught the car?

It's showing you have your injector size correct, but you need to fix the deadtime setting (currently showing 0). Also, if you check the "Save as defaults" button, you shouldn't have to worry about these values/settings changing on you.

 

[Calan]

Is there a special way the settings have to be set to be saved throught the car?

You have to check the "Save as default" box on the live datalog for any properties you want to save. Changing them from within a log (even if you check that box) won't save the properties as default. I'm not sure why that "Save as default" box even shows up on anything other than the live datalog, but the guys at ECMLink are aware of it.

 

[snowborder714]

Oh Craig, you must not pay much attention on the link forums. Eric and I had a good chuckle because Tom was talking to me about this change shortly after you posted up your spec. grav. tests and that info wouldn't be in the new release
ECMTuning User Support Forums

 

[Calan]

Oh Craig, you must not pay much attention on the link forums. Eric and I had a good chuckle because Tom was talking to me about this change shortly after you posted up your spec. grav. tests and that info wouldn't be in the new release
ECMTuning User Support Forums

I was probably sleeping that day.

So what the hell do I have 24 jars of fuel and lab apparatus sitting all over my garage for damn it?

 

[snowborder714]

To look at the different colors of fuel?

 

[Calan]

To look at the different colors of fuel?

yeah... they are colorful.

I did learn more than I really wanted about gasoline and oil companies though.

 

[projekt1]

Fair enough, but realize you're playing with fire not having one. One gauge or a motor?

I'm sure you're on the right track now, but TURN THE BOOST DOWN!

I can say that there were a lot of things that I didnt know until you guys started telling me. Even after reading all the wiki pages for the link, several link tuning threads and other related threads it really doesnt sink is until your able to use it and when somebody tell you when, where and how to do so.

Then invest in a MAP sensor. Nothing to watch, but can be logged through link. I barely use my boost gauge anymore, except when I'm setting my boost. Anything dealing with tuning I use the logged MAP sensor. It's showing you have your injector size correct, but you need to fix the deadtime setting (currently showing 0). Also, if you check the "Save as defaults" button, you shouldn't have to worry about these values/settings changing on you.O R...you can upgrade the firmware on your chip and not have to worry about any of those settings, as the new AFRatioEst doesn't rely on input injector settings.

Yes I will definetly look into a MAP sensor now.
Ill correct that deadtime setting and upgrade the firmware when I get home.

I still have homework and plenty of it but first thing will be borrowing the boost gauge so I can calibrate the MAF next will be the AFRationEst setting and firmware upgrade.

Yesterday when I was swapping the injectors, one of the clips just came of. It was so brittle from old age that as I lifted it just slid right into my palm so I had to quikie solder the connection. I bought 4 new ones so thats also on my list. MAP sesnor and bigger injectors search in the classifieds and craigslist are next for now.

Thanks alot guys

 

[projekt1]

Okay fellas finally got 880's and a boost gauge of a fellow DSMer but still getting knock. Injector clips are done as well. Also made a MBC but it might be leaking. I still have to calibrate my maf because the BoostEst still reads up to 30psi when the boost gauge only goes up to no more than 23psi. Forgot to upgrade firmware too but adjustments have changed.

Knock is still here, ugh. Last thing to try will be the knock sensor but it isnt oozing and the connection is good.
Here are some logs if you guys can point out what I can adjust.

Oh, I think I got the adjustments all good now .

If there's anything in particular I should do with link or the car aside please advice, thanks!

 

[Calan]

Well, without a way to see how much boost and true airflow you are pushing at any given rpm, it's really hard to tell much about what is going on. Unless you are 0 ft above sea level, your BoostEst is still off, and without the MAF being calibrated and no WB data, it won't tell us a whole lot anyway.

But... after changing the SG in the AFRatioEst properties (should be .92 for gas), it now looks like your knock is due to the car going extremely rich around 5500rpms, which coincidently is where you are adding fuel with the sliders.

I would recommend pulling that fuel back out and resetting all the fuel sliders to 0, and see if it improves. BUT... you should be doing all this at somewhere around 17-18psi to be safe, until you get the MAF calibrated and get the hang of tuning it.

You really really really need to get the MAF calibrated so that BoostEst lines up with your gauge between 5000-6000 rpms. Until you do that, AFRatioEst and BoostEst values are pretty much meaningless...and since you aren't logging actual boost or a wideband, there just isn't much to go off of. At this point you are basically just shotgunning the tune and hoping you stumble onto something.

The knock in the first two logs looks real enough, but the last log looks like typical PK (phantom knock). Try setting the TPS value in the ALS/Knck tab up to 30% or so, but leave the RPMS at 2300...or maybe 2500.

 

[projekt1]

Well, without a way to see how much boost and true airflow you are pushing at any given rpm, it's really hard to tell much about what is going on. Unless you are 0 ft above sea level, your BoostEst is still off, and without the MAF being calibrated and no WB data, it won't tell us a whole lot anyway.

Is this what your talking about "Tracy elevation is 48 feet above sea level"? Will get to the maf calibration this weekend, I hope. WB will be a while though.

But... after changing the SG in the AFRatioEst properties (should be .92 for gas), it now looks like your knock is due to the car going extremely rich around 5500rpms, which coincidently is where you are adding fuel with the sliders.

SG .92, got it.

I would recommend pulling that fuel back out and resetting all the fuel sliders to 0, and see if it improves. BUT... you should be doing all this at somewhere around 17-18psi to be safe, until you get the MAF calibrated and get the hang of tuning it.

How do I reset the settings? Will reduce boost in my homade MBC.

You really really really need to get the MAF calibrated so that BoostEst lines up with your gauge between 5000-6000 rpms. Until you do that, AFRatioEst and BoostEst values are pretty much meaningless...and since you aren't logging actual boost or a wideband, there just isn't much to go off of. At this point you are basically just shotgunning the tune and hoping you stumble onto something.

You mean because the maf is not calibrated or because I dont have a map sensor?

The knock in the first two logs looks real enough, but the last log looks like typical PK (phantom knock). Try setting the TPS value in the ALS/Knck tab up to 30% or so, but leave the RPMS at 2300...or maybe 2500.

Wilco

That was a fast asz reply with a lot of advice, thanks Calan!!