Detonation no matter what i do. GRRRR! lol

[a1320eclipse]

Basicly no matter what i do, my 1G AWD is picking up quite a bit of detonation as soon as boost starts building. Ive tried retarding timing, advancing timing, AFR's are mid 11's in boost. Tried different brands of gas. Tried richening it up and leaning it out (safely). So im kinda baffled right now. Anyone see anything that would cause a problem?

There is a 15psi 3rd gear pull log further down the page.

Specs:
factory 6/4 car
JDM motor with 60k in excellent condition
ARP headstuds
LM1 WB that is pulling 11.2-11.5 AFR's in boost
Hacked MAF
Evo 560's
Stock piping, intercooler, turbo
2G manifold
DSMLink V2 with V3 software
Tryin to run about 20psi of boost
IAT's are about 87-89* at full boost
Car is running at 200* coolant temps
Stock downpipe, High flow cat, 2.25" exhaust with straight through muffler

 

[scott90gsx420]

Is your knock sensor bad? Torqued to the proper tightness? Do you have phantom know? Sounds like a bad sensor.

 

[a1320eclipse]

I dont think its bad. If i try and run like 8, 9, 10psi, its fine. And ive disabled the knock sensor and you can audibly hear it detonating. Also running my plug gaps at .020.

 

[scott90gsx420]

Well id say if you have tried all that and its still doing it then youve probably got a boost leak somewhere. Have you tried dropping a couple gallons of racing fuel into it and see if it stops. If not then its probably not knock..

On the bigger note i re-read your original post. For one your running the stock turbo and at that boost level its not making any more power then at say 16. Your just blowing hot air which will cause knock especially if its after the first couple runs and it has really heat-soaked the intercooler. And i thought i read you had upgraded intercooler and piping. The stock are just not effiecent enough for that high of boost level unless on a bigger turbo that moves much more air(and cooler air at that)

For two you have only bigger injectors? Do you have an upgraded fuel deliver system at least a bigger pump?If not thats exactly what id bet the problem is the stock system cant keep up with anything over 15psi on the stock turbo.
So What turbo and what other fuel mods besides injectors do you have.

So in totall your pushing your turbo,intercooler and piping and fuel system way, way past its limit. Your probably knocking really bad and thats why its audible. YOuve honestly already started ruining the motor by now man keep the boost down and pray nothing is alreay on its way out.AND PUT THE KNOCK SENSOR BACK ON

One last thing, my car has a sound that sounds like rattling cans(what ive heard det. sounds like and its been doing it forever. I run 22psi daily and my motor is fine. The car never pulls timing and my plugs and pistons look great.) Just food for thought .
You can always read the plugs too look for broken/cracked insulators and little balls of aluminium. Use magnifying glass.

I see youve got a hacked maf. too. That causes the ecu to advance timing more and its proven hacked maf.s cause all kinds of weird stuff. Youve got dsmlink why don't you run speed density?

 

[a1320eclipse]

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, its got a 255 that i rewired with 8 gauge wire to the relay. Its funny you mention 16 psi. Cause my 90 GSX i had about 5 years ago, i couldnt run over 16psi without it pulling timing from knock, and it had a FMIC, walbro, SAFC, hacked maf, full 3" turbo back, rewired 255. And i can get to about 16psi now without it knocking. The intercooler always seems cool to the touch after a pull and like i said, my IAT's are in the 80* range on a pull. Which from my days of tuning hondas, 80*'s isnt bad. So i didnt think it was an hot charge air issue.

Im goin to switch to ECMLink when money allows, just so i can switch to speed density. I hate these POS MAFs .

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, its got a 255 that i rewired with 8 gauge wire to the relay. Its funny you mention 16 psi. Cause my 90 GSX i had about 5 years ago, i couldnt run over 16psi without it pulling timing from knock, and it had a FMIC, walbro, SAFC, hacked maf, full 3" turbo back, rewired 255. And i can get to about 16psi now without it knocking. The intercooler always seems cool to the touch after a pull and like i said, my IAT's are in the 80* range on a pull. Which from my days of tuning hondas, 80*'s isnt bad. So i didnt think it was an hot charge air issue.

Im goin to switch to ECMLink when money allows, just so i can switch to speed density. I hate these POS MAFs .

Yeah your IAT's are really nice. What's the temp outside with those IAT's? When I was at the strip the other night it was 75* out and my IAT's were in the 110* range and that's with a FMIC. I'm also on the 14b and I was running 24 lbs that night but I'm lowering it to 20 because it was less then efficient to say the least.

 

[a1320eclipse]

Yeah your IAT's are really nice. What's the temp outside with those IAT's? When I was at the strip the other night it was 75* out and my IAT's were in the 110* range and that's with a FMIC. I'm also on the 14b and I was running 24 lbs that night but I'm lowering it to 20 because it was less then efficient to say the least.

It was about 75* outside yesterday when doin some tuning. Thats when the IAT's were at about 87-89. When its around 60* it runs in the 81-84* range. Are you on a translator and piping? or how close to stock are you. I think im just finding the limits of all the stock crap on the car.

 

[scott90gsx420]

Oh sorry missed that part of your post. LOl i get reply happy sometimes.
Id say keep it at 16 if that's the highest you can go without knocking. Id say that would be the limit of your setup untill you can get a bigger IC setup.Do you have a afpr with that 255? IF not id pick one up then you can mess with the fuel pressure and maby get a bit more out of it.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

It was about 75* outside yesterday when doin some tuning. Thats when the IAT's were at about 87-89. When its around 60* it runs in the 81-84* range. Are you on a translator and piping? or how close to stock are you. I think im just finding the limits of all the stock crap on the car.

I'm running speed density on V3lite with 850 injectors. All my mods are up to date in my profile. I just looked at a log from earlier in the month with just a third gear pull and my IAT's were 86-87*. Those 110* IAT's I was talking about were on several full 1/4 mile passes.

Third gear pulls with 91 octane and hitting 24 lbs on the 14b (tapering off to 15-16 in the higher RPMs) I would get zero knock. However with that same tune on the track I was getting knock in 3rd and 4th gear until I pulled a few degrees of timing, then just in 4th. I actually just switched to E85 a few days ago to get rid of the knock and let me advance the timing more and like I said I'm also going to be lowering the boost on the 14b to 20 lbs max.

 

[Calan]

OP - You really, REALLY need to invest in a wideband, and turn the boost down to 15psi (or lower) until you know what's going on with your AFR.

Then post up a log.

 

[scott90gsx420]

OP - You really, REALLY need to invest in a wideband, and turn the boost down to 15psi (or lower) until you know what's going on with your AFR.

Then post up a log.

H says the afr is mid 11's in boost on the op.. Although he doesn't say if thats off the stock o2 sensor.Which isn't very accurate.

 

[Calan]

But there is no WB listed anywhere in his profile or the list in the first post... so how does he know what they are?

And if it's a WB, it should show up in the log.

 

[scott90gsx420]

No idea. Hopefully when he gets back on he could answer that for us .

 

[a1320eclipse]

I have an LM-1 Wideband in the car. the car runs perfect 14.5-14.8 AFR's cruising on the freeway. And 11.6-11.8AFR's under a full pull. Im thinking my piping and intecooler has reached its limits. On a full pull the car pulls 11.6-11.8AFR's. and IAT's are in the 82-85* range.

Just for posterity sake, ive been [email protected] on 15.7psi in my hatch. Just really wanted to crack something new tuning and manufacture wise in this area. So i picked up the DSM i have now. And im just dumbfounded by where im at with it. So idk .

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

It would be very helpful if you could post a log like Calan mentioned.

One thing to look for if you feel that you reaching the limit on your hacked MAF is look for MAF overrun. Look at the MAFRaw signal and see if it goes from a smooth line to a jumping up and down erratically. Here is an explanation of MAF limits from ECMtuning's site: http://www.ecmtuning.com/wiki/maffrequencylimits?s=maf%20overrun. I know on my 1g unhacked MAF I was getting MAF overrun right at 2000Hz.

I think your stock intercooler is working great, it doesn't sound like its heat soaking at all with those IAT numbers. I wouldn't recommend back to back pulls but I don't think that it's your problem.

Based on my limited experience tuning (I just got dsmlink 3 months ago and am still learning) I would think that you would need to try richening it up some more at WOT. When I was on 91 I was tuning for 10.5 at WOT and even then I was getting the knock I described in the later gears. I know you said you tried richening it up, but how much? What fuel are you running? Also what is your Injector Duty in these pulls at 20 psi?

 

[a1320eclipse]

I have a log of a 15psi 3rd gear pull. Its rainy and about 57* so the IAT's are nice and cool. I dont have the LM1 wired into the ecu, but the AFR's are a good solid 11.2-11.5 on this pull.

 

[Calan]

I don't see any wideband or boost data in that log.

 

[a1320eclipse]

I don't see any wideband or boost data in that log.

Wideband isnt tied into the ecu. I use the LM1 to tune other cars so its setup to be taken in and out. That pull the AFR's were 11.5 and taper to 11.2 by the end of the pull, and boost is in there. the gauge shows it hits about 15 then drops to about 14psi.

What AFR are these cars happy with. Ive been tuning alot fo cars and have always tuned for a 11.8 afr under boost. But im reading that people are running 10.8-11.0afr. Seem s bit rich.

 

[scott90gsx420]

It all depends on the octane of gas your using. If your using 91 stick between high 10's low 11's. If your running 92 mid 11's and if 93 ive heard of people running as lean as low 12's. Mid to high 11's should be safe though on 93.. I wouldn't go any leaner then that without a way to monitor knock and without upgrading your IC setup and/or running meth/water injection.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

What AFR are these cars happy with. Ive been tuning alot fo cars and have always tuned for a 11.8 afr under boost. But im reading that people are running 10.8-11.0afr. Seem s bit rich.

With 91 octane (the highest in my area) I tuned to 10.5:1 at WOT and like I said I was still getting knock at the track even with low timing advance. I just switched to E85 and I'm tuning for 12.0:1 at WOT.

 

[Calan]

I just switched to E85 and I'm tuning for 12.0:1 at WOT.

You're still running a little rich Nate.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

You're still a little rich Nate.

It's a starting point. Once I get comfortable with it there and everything is good then I'll go leaner.

 

[Calan]

Yep... I hear ya.

 

[a1320eclipse]

Would a massive boost leak cause this issue? I found a pretty effed up injector seal that was a pretty good leak.

 

[scott90gsx420]

Yep.. Boost leaks cause all kinds of weird issues. If your leaking it causes the car to run rich under boost. You then tune it out because you think its running to rich and the only cylinder thats actually running rich will be good but the others are then way to lean.. Pull the plugs and compare them.