1G Cranks over no start intermittent

[Tony J]

Thes posts surrounding my issue on this forum will borderline give you a stroke.

After fixing my clutch drag issue and starting the car twice with 0 drive time I am now dealing with a car that turns over but doesn't crank.

My car does NOT have a starter plate as it is broken however only the place where the starter goes is missing. The rest of the shim is there. I REPEAT THE REST OF THE SHIM IS THERE.

So full story. Car sat for 10 months at a shop being started WITHOUT ISSUE intermittently to be pulled in and out. I get car back, clutch drags. I shim ball fix issue put everything back as it was.

Start car TWO TIMES do clutch drag test 0 movement. Chalk up a win and go home from the shop.

I go next day thinking I'm gonna do some logging. Come to find out the car won't start. Starter whines spins clunks sometimes but only every 4-5 clicks of key would it engage on the flywheel as I could see the cam gears move to compression and then bounce back.

So today I pull the starter take it to get a rebuild on it. They replace all parts, test it. I go back to the shop and the starter engages to turn the engine every single time (without shims or washers to make up the difference BUT NOT ENOUGH JAM TO START IT. Slow cranking it felt like.

At this point I throw a battery charger on it and head home for the night.

Here's what I noticed. Car turns over without the starter plate.

When I have washers installed that are the same thickness as the starter plate (yes I checked on the piece that is still in the WHOLE TRANS) it actually makes my problem worse.

When I pulled the tranny I looked at my flywheel and didn't notice anything crazy, shiny spots sure but nothing chipped. The starter bendex was rounded but that's since been replaced.

I know someone is going to address the elephant in the room but before I install the starter plate, drop the tranny again, etc I'd like to pick up a new clutch to install. I have a starter plate on a motor on a stand I will use (not thinking about this at 2am and a trans on the floor for other issues)

I've had the car running. Does it sound nice when it starts? Honestly yes. A few times I noticed the starter was loose when the grinds got violent but tighten and retry and it always popped right on first 2 cranks.

Tonight I held it as long as I felt comfortable until it made a binding grind noise and lights started dimming, which leads me to believe low battery. Which makes sense considering before I swapped the starter I'm holding the key on tryna make it work and it just goes weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee 0 grinds. Hence why pulled and rebuilt. Bad bendex and bearings.

You guys were a great help with the clutch issue. I'm all ears and would like some insight from the "wise guys" before I pull the tranny for the second time in 2 weeks.

Old starter goes wee no engine turn over.

New starter cranks engine, noisely but sounds weak. Have not tried washers on new starter as it was late only put it on cranked it didn't start threw charger on and left.

So tomorrow if it doesn't crank and start my train of thought is try the washers, still doesn't work; then maybe flywheel? I have a spare but it looks rough too .

Does the starter plate really play that much of a role? I mean the holes on the starter line up with the plate and the trans? How can it be off at all especially when its tight af and no shims.

I've torqued this starter so many times it needs bolts with nuts on it.

Let me know guys, I know I ramble but I just gotta make sure I'm transparent before y'all come at me and I go nooooo, I told you about that.

 

[19Eclipse90]

I measured some things out a while ago for a similar situation to help explain the importance of the starter plate: Starter Mounting Problem w/Pic.

If all the starter is doing is free spinning (weee sound), either the solenoid isn’t kicking out or the alignment is off enough to prevent engagement of the Bendix and ring gear - though I expect that would be a bit noisier than the solenoid simply not kicking out.

Double check your connections at the starter, even the nut for the M terminal (the one connecting the main starter body to the solenoid). Make sure the battery is well charged.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

If you can SEE the flywheel teeth, put some silly putty or similar (or Prussian Blue marking compound) on the teeth and engage the starter again, then look at the putty (or marking dye). Is it smashed or gone or not touched at all? When a bendix just spins, either it's one way clutch is not working or it's not touching the flywheel for some reason. It's just a test.

 

[Tony J]

If you can SEE the flywheel teeth, put some silly putty or similar (or Prussian Blue marking compound) on the teeth and engage the starter again, then look at the putty (or marking dye). Is it smashed or gone or not touched at all? When a bendix just spins, either it's one way clutch is not working or it's not touching the flywheel for some reason. It's just a test.

As I mentioned the new starter engages just didnt have the jam to spin motor more than a few times. Will try today after full charge over lastnight, and go from there.

the new starter turns the motor, it sounds grindy but it WILL start I've done it 25 times before the starter decided to not work.
I just want to know if there's anything "weird" to look for.

I feel like it should mesh and fire on like 2 or 3 cranks but it seems like 5 or 6 cranks and it fires.

 

[Anfurnyy]

Not saying this is the issue but maybe something to consider.
I bought a new AC Delco 1.2kwh starter and it made my cranking WORSE due to using more power to power the starter.

To me it does sound like a weak battery.
I'm assuming in it's current situation it does NOT start?

Could it be something with the CAS/ cam / crank signal? Maybe they aren't getting signal?

Verified spark and / or injectors firing with a light?

 

[Tony J]

Not saying this is the issue but maybe something to consider.
I bought a new AC Delco 1.2kwh starter and it made my cranking WORSE due to using more power to power the starter.

To me it does sound like a weak battery.
I'm assuming in it's current situation it does NOT start?

Could it be something with the CAS/ cam / crank signal? Maybe they aren't getting signal?

Verified spark and / or injectors firing with a light?

Getting ready to head to shop now to further try new battery. Will update thread accordingly.

 

[Tony J]

Im trying to post a video, lastnight the cams were moving. Today I turn key for the first time and you guys can see for yourself. Just spins, it sounds like. No movement on fly or cams... this is without washers or spacers so the starter is as close to the tranny as possible.

Ive had it started before with minimal cranking in both scenarios now she's just a b*tch to even get to MESH.

 

[Tony J]

Worn out fly and fly I plan to put in.

A good starter plate is also installed.

Will finish install tomorrow. Im not even gonna bother fighting putting the trans back in without a helper.

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