Confusion about EGR and this site

[Calan]

Several Wisemen here have stated that removing the EGR is actually not a good idea, and leaving it as is can help with knock and keeps the engine healthy. (I found many other articles elsewhere that agree with this viewpoint).

BUT ....

Step #2 of the 1G upgrades free mods page on this site states to remove it (block-off).

http://www.dsmtuners.com/tuning-guide/1gturbo/stage0power.php

Leaving it seems to make sense based on what I've found, but if so...why does the "official" upgrade path say to remove it?

On a related note, please help with this if you can:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252218

Thanks!

 

[Rob10_99]

EGR will only increase your intake temps, whats your exhaust temp? 800degC?
Proper tuning and cooler intake temps(meth/FMIC ect) are the way to get rid of knock.

if recircing your exhaust had performance aspect, I would route my 3" dp back into the turbo inlet!
anyone know where I can get adimantium pistons?

 

[Calan]

EGR will only increase your intake temps...

Nothing personal, but IMHO this reply is a perfect example of a viewpoint based on heresay instead of documented proof, and why I started this thread. I've spent the last couple days researching this and almost every reputable source (including a couple of people here) says that an EGR will lower combustion temperatures; not raise them. And the reasoning is very solid if you look into it.

Here are a couple of links out of several if you're interested:

http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/nov97/gas.htm (Henry Guzman is an ASE master tech with L1 certification. He has 20 years of experience working as a technician on foreign and domestic cars)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaust_gas_recirculation

EGR systems are designed for emissions reduction, and they accomplish this be reducing CC temperatures (from what I remember ... the inert gas slows the fuel burn, but the net result is a lower combustion chamber temperature at the same horsepower). The only real benefit to removing them that I've found is a few less vacuum lines and a "cleaner" intake (although that's not really an issue unless you spend time showing off the inside of your intake manny... and especially not if you clean it now and then).

The obvious benefit (by their very design) is lowered combustion temperatures, which in our cars equate directly with less knock.

Wisemen feel free to elaborate or shoot my research down

 

[Defiant]

EGR works only during high-vacuum, low-load conditions. Such as, steady-state speed down the freeway, or while coasting. It essentially doesn't affect driving, and particularly not power output.

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

Wikipedia is hardly a reliable source imo, as anyone can modify its contents. But the ASA article was interesting.

I recently replaced my ISC with a brand new unit from dsmisc. At the same time I installed a block off plate and removed my EGR entirely, connecting the two vacuum ports to each other. Currently I am still getting a P0505 code. I am pretty certain it isn't the new ISC as the car idles great now, but again, I still get the CEL. I'm wondering if the CEL for EGR is the same code as the ISC? If so, I may restore the EGR and see if that makes the code go away, otherwise I'm still not convinced EGR is good for anything but cleaner emissions.

 

[Calan]

Defiant...

Thanks for adding that. I had forgotten to mention that it was inactive during WOT and idle. Also, do you agree that it is best to leave it in place, or to remove it?

I'm still wondering why it is listed as a "free mod", when (cleaner intake and fewer hoses aside) just about everyone agrees that at the very least, removing it does not increase horsepower, and more than likely loses 1-2 mpg under steady state driving.

 

[mcneilbmx]

if it is bad for our cars i really need to know.
the car i just bought already has the block off plate.
but when i read those free mods i seen it in there and assumed it was alright.
but after this im kind of skeptical.

 

[D_Eclipse9916]

Most people (including myself) are trying to remove as many things from under the hood as possible, and we also dont care about gas mileage. I removed it to eliminate possibly more problems.

 

[thegchild04]

Most people (including myself) are trying to remove as many things from under the hood as possible, and we also dont care about gas mileage. I removed it to eliminate possibly more problems.

Yea me too I don't know why there is a need for a laborite discussion about the EGR block off. Much less research about it on any other site but this one....

 

[c4uldr0n]

I remove EGR on all of my vehicles... the only reason to keep it is if you live up north where is really cold, it helps gas mileage somewhat when city driving.

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

Did I say my car idles great? I meant it's idling rough on start up and needs some encouragement to get stable for the first 15-20 seconds. And that's ever since I used the block off plate. I'm thinking of putting the egr back in and seeing if my idle goes back to normal.

 

[Calan]

Yea me too I don't know why there is a need for a laborite discussion about the EGR block off. Much less research about it on any other site but this one....

Did you even read or comprehend the ASA article? There are hundreds more just like it if you have something against that particular master tech that wrote it.

Typical... your response answered your own question about why to research it elsewhere.

I wouldn't call this "a laborite discussion" (whatever that is)...I just prefer to have as many facts as possible before making "mods" because everyone else does it.

To each his own...

 

[mcneilbmx]

Most people (including myself) are trying to remove as many things from under the hood as possible, and we also dont care about gas mileage. I removed it to eliminate possibly more problems.

what possible problems would be eliminated by removing the EGR?

 

[Kaedo]

Sorry to bring this post back from the dead but I feel it was never really finished properly. I currently have a blocked EGR (mainly due to this site) but after reading around on the internet recently it looks as if it is not one of the best things to do. The cons (decreased gas mileage, increased combustion temps, reduced engine life, no performance gain, failed emissions) seem to outweigh to the pros (less vacuum lines and cleaner engine bay, 'cleaner' intake tra.) So maybe there is some benefit that I am not seeing and if there is, someone please tell me. Otherwise I guess I am going to unblocking my EGR this weekend.

 

[D_Eclipse9916]

Wow, alright this is old. No there is nothing wrong with an EGR. Personally I run an evo3 intake manifold so I cannot run egr without rigging something up...and also, its just another thing that could leak/break cause cels, vacuum leaks, and clutter in the engine bay. Personally I never noticed a sharp decrease in gas mileage. After road racing my car for a few weekends and crewing for teams, anything to make a car simpler to diagnose/keep running/take apart is a god send. These cars are hard enough.

 

[sd_ff22]

I second that.
I run an EVO3 intake manifold as well, but I have it rigged up with egr valve in the back and all vacumm lines run as they should be so I dont get CELs. I have not had a change in drivability or a decrease in fuel milage. Even my idle is fine after 1G TB and this manifold.

 

[Supa Dexta]

When I had my 1g intake it was pretty dirty inside from the egr, by removing it you remove the dirt it puts into your intake. I have a smim now, so no worries about that thing.

Meth and no egr = sparking clean.

And isn't the only reason it lowers exhaust temps is because its taking up charge space with exhausted gas, therefore lowering power output as well since your not able to jam as much fuel in?

 

[Avionixx]

And isn't the only reason it lowers exhaust temps is because its taking up charge space with exhausted gas, therefore lowering power output as well since your not able to jam as much fuel in?

Considering it doesn't operate at WOT or any other time you're calling upon serious power, I don't see why anyone should be concerned.