tuning and confusion

[jpmxrider489]

ok im confused. these are the parts i have laying around that i plan to put in my car in the next month or so im getting a logger
pte 550s
walbro 190
14b ported
2gmani ported with ported o2
3 inch catback
dejon upic with 1g bov recirc
lower intercooler pipe
dejon intake
eprom ecu
now a few questions. im new to all this so can you please keep in simple.
i need a way to tune besides link. can i tune with a logger. i need to make more fuel and air.

1 what is the difference between wide band and narrow band? i was told i should get a wideband. people talk about tuning with this?

2 im looking at gettin a safc2 (im on a budget) can i control fuel. what exactly is a safc.

sorry about the post but i tried searching and cant find a acurate thread that fit my situation.

 

[LiquidX]

ok im confused. these are the parts i have laying around that i plan to put in my car in the next month or so im getting a logger
pte 550s
walbro 190
14b ported
2gmani ported with ported o2
3 inch catback
dejon upic with 1g bov recirc
lower intercooler pipe
dejon intake
eprom ecu
now a few questions. im new to all this so can you please keep in simple.
i need a way to tune besides link. can i tune with a logger. i need to make more fuel and air.

1 what is the difference between wide band and narrow band? i was told i should get a wideband. people talk about tuning with this?

2 im looking at gettin a safc2 (im on a budget) can i control fuel. what exactly is a safc.

1. Wide band has a voltage sweep of 0v-5v to give an accurate reading of your AFR. Narrow band has a 0v-1v signal the ECU uses to maintain a 14.7 AFR in closed loop operation. Wide band is what you want for tuning

2. Apexi-USA - AFC-neo

3. A logger is a logger, not a tuner. Link has a logger built in and is still the better choice over the cost of an AFC and logger as the price will equate to a very similar price to ECMLink v3 Lite. Besides, unless your vehicle came with the EPROM being a 95, why would you buy it and not use Link as that's what's needed to run it.

 

[Couger85]

Save your pennies and get ecm link.

 

[slow8033]

OK, OK, I will do the obligitory reply this time.

Perhaps try searching more generally for your answers instead of trying to find an answer that fits your car's set up exactly? Im not getting on you for not searching because I think a newbie forum is for asking newbie questions, and it tends to get some members around here a little upset, but to help you out in general and in life I will tell you this.

A little and probably should be WELL Known hint on the internet = google is your friend. In the google prompt type this immediately followed by what your searching for...for example...

site:dsmtuners.com wideband vs. narrowband

That will give you only results that are in dsmtuners.com, which will tend to be the information your looking for, and it tends to work much better at least for me than the actual search function on the site. This isn't just dsmtuners knowledge...it should be common internet search knowledge. For example:

site:victoriasecret.com big boobs

Most everyone will tell you to search. I have searched many an hour on the web so I will just give you the answers.

DSM link is the best control over your engine for the money. Especially for your car. You have an eprom ECU Im sure (being 95) so if you can afford it thats the way to go. But you have to be at least a little intelligent to make it work, such as be able to learn new stuff by research.

SAFC is kinda the ghetto tuning device. Yes it works, but it isn't very precise. It kinda will trick your ECU to give more fuel as needed (actually less with bigger injectors but thats another thread all together) but you wont really be able to dial in the perfect correct amount. You can keep things from melting but you wont get the best possible tune this way..its not precise enough. Your setup wont see full potential.

If your worried about the money difference, you will be mad at yourself later. Take the time to save up for at least dsmlink v3 lite. If you start researching it today you would know how to use it by the time you have the money for it. Just a thought.

Wideband vs narrowband isn't even a question that should be asked. Does anyone know why they even MAKE a narrowband other than getting people's money? A narrowband uses the 02 sensor to get a reading, and in turn it lights up a bunch of lights trying to tell you if your rich or lean. Pretty pointless because if you want a good tune, and a safe tune, you need hard data...which is numbers...not a pretty light.

The Wideband gives you those numbers. And hence it costs more because it is actually much more useful.

So to bring it all together, with DSMlink you can get yor wideband to read a perfect fuel/air ratio number at any RPM you need. With SAFC you might luck out, but most likely your gonna have to tune it to be a bit on the rich side. Its rarely accurate enough to dial it in perfect.

A logger can't tune a car...just LOG what it does for you to review it.

 

[jpmxrider489]

so how would wideband change the effect my setup. my car came with eprom.

 

[LiquidX]

No idea in what you are trying to say.

However with a wideband you can tune to an exact AFR by knowing where your readings are at. It will be accurate (assuming no exhaust leaks prior to the sensor) and because of thatyou aren't guessing where your tune may be.

Take ECMLink for instance. I've seen tunes where their AFREst (AFR estimate based from input settings) says say 11.8 at WOT. Once a wideband was put in, that AFREst is now wrong due to the wideband showing a true 10.3 AFR at WOT.

Same with trying to tune with an AFC without a wideband.

 

[92AWDHX40]

you can monitor air fuel ratios simple as that so your not running lean. Gotta have one.

 

[jpmxrider489]

ok thx for the replies. im just ver new to this. i have the basic knowledge but not details

 

[Calan]

Does anyone know why they even MAKE a narrowband other than getting people's money? A narrowband uses the 02 sensor to get a reading, and in turn it lights up a bunch of lights trying to tell you if your rich or lean. Pretty pointless because if you want a good tune, and a safe tune, you need hard data...which is numbers...not a pretty light.

The Wideband gives you those numbers. And hence it costs more because it is actually much more useful.

I think you may be confusing after-market narrowband gauges with the sensor itself. NB sensors definitely have their place; your car couldn't run in closed loop and maintain a stoich fuel mixture (14.7:1 AFR) without them.


To expand a bit on what Scott said in post #2...

Comparing a WB with a NB is like apples to oranges. They both work by sensing oxygen in the exhaust (O2), and they both output a DC voltage that can be measured, displayed on a gauge, or used to light up LEDs. But that is where the similarity ends.

NB sensors use the concept of a switching voltage, centered around a specific point. Their output is from 0 to 1 volts DC; as the AFR goes above or below 14.7:1, the sensor output voltage changes very abrupty towards 0 or 1 volt, depending on what voltage they are calibrated to switch at. The ECU uses this signal to modulate the amount of fuel being injected in order to maintain the 14.7:1 AFR. By design, this switching occurs at a specific AFR target, and since the voltage change is rather steep, they are only accurate over a very narrow range of AFRs...hence the name narrowband.

A wideband sensor's output is totally different; it produces a linear output voltage that corresponds directly to the actual AFR measured. This voltage is from 0 to 5 volts DC and covers a wide range of AFRs; usually from around 9.0:1 to 18.0:1 or higher.

Since the NB sensor can only tell when the AFR goes above or below 14.7:1 (but not by how much), it's pretty much useless for trying to dial in a specific AFR. That's where the wideband comes in; it's output voltage corresponds directly to the actual oxygen content in the exhaust. So the WB is a true measurement tool that can be used to dial in your target AFR.