Coilover recommendations?

[lilwine]

Wanting to begin road courses and autox. I haven't looked into them much. Price isn't an issue. I want durable and easy to maintain.

 

[snowborder714]

We can get in a pissing match all day about what's good and what's not. Funny thing is, you were the first person on the DG group buy list, but then backed out

Either way, if you want to prove the AMR's are better than the Koni/KW setups, then get all 3 on a shock dyno and get some plots. For now, with the limited data/experience with that brand on this forum, we can't deduce that just from someone saying "they're the shit".

 

[jtmcinder]

English Racing doesn't just build drag cars. They are found doing track days at PIR ALOT. Most of the guys who have these locally aren't drag racers.

OK, fine. Then I apologize to English Racing. But they still aren't high on my list of who to call for this. And I wasn't ragging on AMS by any means. I just found the suggestion as to who to call to be silly when there are so many places with serious, long-term, relevant experience with DSMs, such as Road Race Engineering and Mueller.

 

[rr06rs]

We can get in a pissing match all day about what's good and what's not. Funny thing is, you were the first person on the DG group buy list, but then backed out

Either way, if you want to prove the AMR's are better than the Koni/KW setups, then get all 3 on a shock dyno and get some plots. For now, with the limited data/experience with that brand on this forum, we can't deduce that just from someone saying "they're the shit".

Exactly, because I decided to go outside the box and go with the AMR's since everyone else around here doesn't seem to want to and I'm glad I did. I also said that the experience with my Ohlins are the only thing I had to compare them to. I think someone else declared the pissing match on here. I guaranty if I said "DG/Konis are the shit!" There wouldn't be a stink like this would there??? Exactly...

OK, fine. Then I apologize to English Racing. But they still aren't high on my list of who to call for this. And I wasn't ragging on AMS by any means. I just found the suggestion as to who to call to be silly when there are so many places with serious, long-term, relevant experience with DSMs, such as Road Race Engineering and Mueller.

The only reason I mentioned them is because they are the only other ones that have FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE with Andy and AMR.

 

[snowborder714]

I guaranty if I said "DG/Konis are the shit!" There wouldn't be a stink like this would there??? Exactly...

That's because they're proven, have a lot of research behind the setup, and data floating around. There's nothing like that for the AMR setup.

I'm not saying they're crap and should be bucketed in with the crap coilover setups, but I'm not convinced they're awesome since there's very little data. And I'm not one to just believe someone's word.

 

[ExtremeTurboSystems]

Someone with a 2G on these forums would actually have to try the setup for them to even have a chance. Locally they have a great rep but I don't see that happening here with the way they get bashed right out of the gate in every thread.

 

[rr06rs]

That's because they're proven, have a lot of research behind the setup, and data floating around. There's nothing like that for the AMR setup.

I'm not saying they're crap and should be bucketed in with the crap coilover setups, but I'm not convinced they're awesome since there's very little data. And I'm not one to just believe someone's word.

Understandably so. Which is why I referenced the only others that I know of with actual experience. How did the DG/konis get the rep they have?.....people took a chance and tried them. That's what I did with the AMR's and given the Ohlins are the only other setup I have to compare them to and am MORE than happy. I believe the OP asked for recommendations and not PROVEN FACTUAL DATA FROM THE BEST COILOVERS, did he not? I gave mine.

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

They seem like a good alternative and I would 100% prefer to try these over teins at least anyway, if only I had lots of money to test them all out but im not rich! So we need real reviews from real cars used on the tracks,

 

[ExtremeTurboSystems]

H1 Lightning Race Road Atlanta August 5 2012 - YouTube

Real track tested.

 

[jtmcinder]

One last point: it's really important to find out whether they - where "they" equals whomever you decide to work with - have experience with 2G DSMs, instead of 1Gs, assuming that you're setting up a 2G. They are completely different and what people have learned from setting up a strut-based car will not translate to (and could even interfere with) setting up a double-wishbone car.

Example: people putting massive monotubes on a 2Gs are, well, silly. I've even seen one place going on about inverted monotubes for a 2G. Idiotic.

Full disclosure: this applies in the other direction, as well. I was almost starting over when I got the Evo.

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

H1 Lightning Race Road Atlanta August 5 2012 - YouTube

Real track tested.

These are them AMR suspension? Seems ok think the driver needs a little more of a nudge to test them further I cant wait to drive that track in the future. For just over 1500 its not a bad price for the kit,

 

[ExtremeTurboSystems]

This guy is on AMR coilovers, yes. It is a video off of the website.

 

[chinola69]

Understandably so. Which is why I referenced the only others that I know of with actual experience. How did the DG/konis get the rep they have?.....people took a chance and tried them. That's what I did with the AMR's and given the Ohlins are the only other setup I have to compare them to and am MORE than happy. I believe the OP asked for recommendations and not PROVEN FACTUAL DATA FROM THE BEST COILOVERS, did he not? I gave mine.

This is silly to say , Would you reccommend someone at your job if you didnt know them or ever meet them. Or would you reccomend someone that you knew was a hard worker and had a good track record with other jobs.

And would you take advice from someone about your car if he was a shoe salesmen with no car experience.

Dont take this so personal no one is saying there product is no good, just that they can not reccomend it cause of there lack of knowledge/experience with it.

 

[rr06rs]

This is silly to say , Would you reccommend someone at your job if you didnt know them or ever meet them. Or would you reccomend someone that you knew was a hard worker and had a good track record with other jobs.

And would you take advice from someone about your car if he was a shoe salesmen with no car experience.

Dont take this so personal no one is saying there product is no good, just that they can not reccomend it cause of there lack of knowledge/experience with it.

I'm not taking it personal. It just gets old when EVERY time I have posted something about AMR, even when I had no experience with them, Cinder and Snowboarder jump in and have something to say about them even when THEY THEMSELVES have no experience with them.

 

[4g63tc]

I run Bilstein Sports, with GC Sleeves, and eibach springs, 10Kg fronts, and 8 Kg rears..oh wait that's on my Spec Miata.

 

[chinola69]

I'm not taking it personal. It just gets old when EVERY time I have posted something about AMR, even when I had no experience with them, Cinder and Snowboarder jump in and have something to say about them even when THEY THEMSELVES have no experience with them.

Why would you recommend something you have no experience with or any concrete data to back it up with?

I know that if you can prove to them that AMR is a great suspension they would have no problem recommend it. Thats all just back up what you say and dont just say "I found these coilovers on the web and they fit the 2g"

 

[Tiki2777]

Do these AMS (AMR whatever) coilovers that ETS is talking about have the same stock travel, or do they actually account for lowered ride height? For whatever reason, that is what i have gathered is one of the main problems with coilovers other than koni or KW V3. (other than some shit valving/butterfly systems from brands too)

 

[rr06rs]

Why would you recommend something you have no experience with or any concrete data to back it up with?

I know that if you can prove to them that AMR is a great suspension they would have no problem recommend it. Thats all just back up what you say and dont just say "I found these coilovers on the web and they fit the 2g"

Did I not say that I have them and they are comparable to the Ohlins on my 1g both in ride quality and control. What more can I say??? I wouldn't recommend something I have no first hand experience with.

Do these AMS (AMR whatever) coilovers that ETS is talking about have the same stock travel, or do they actually account for lowered ride height? For whatever reason, that is what i have gathered is one of the main problems with coilovers other than koni or KW V3. (other than some shit valving/butterfly systems from brands too)

Yes they do. Fully adjustable bodies. Also, if you look online, there was a review done by a Penske rep that dynod and disassembled them and found them to be comparable to Penske and Ohlins in build quality and valving.

 

[TSiAWD666]

In regards to the AMR:
- Comparable to which penske and which ohlins? They have quite a range.
- What spring rate ranges did the built in valving support?
- Is the valving serviceable and/or adjustable by anyone in the US? What's yours (and other's if you know) experience with the reliability in a road race environment (have you been tracking them for a while and checked their dyno response over time, seen any leaking, or done any other data gathering beyond your buttometer)?
- In what types of environments have you driven these and did they give you the tunability you wanted, like desired compression/rebound, or did you find anything limiting?
- Did the pairs of shocks come matched or did you have to tweak them to get the dyno plots lined up? Wondering if dyno plots for the same settings matched, and if adjustments altered each side equally.

I have these answers when it comes to KW V3, and don't for AMR (and this is just because I personally haven't seen the data out there on these). These are the sorts of things racers should be asking. We don't give a rat's ass if the "driveability and control" is "good".

 

[jtmcinder]

I'm not taking it personal. It just gets old when EVERY time I have posted something about AMR, even when I had no experience with them, Cinder and Snowboarder jump in and have something to say about them even when THEY THEMSELVES have no experience with them.

Yeah. When you brought them up before, I was soooo negative. If I recall correctly (which is guaranteed, as you'll see), this is what I said:

In general, and as I said in a PM to the OP, if you're in an adventurous mood and want to try something new and different, go for it. If you want something that is absolutely tried and true, then go with the group buy.

As I said above in this thread, AMR are known to make nice STRUTS. We don't need any more videos of Hondas to know this. They are on my own list for the Evo, in fact. What we don't know if they are any good for cars with just SHOCKS. But we do know that Konis and KWs are both great shocks.

 

[rr06rs]

In regards to the AMR:
- Comparable to which penske and which ohlins? They have quite a range.
- What spring rate ranges did the built in valving support?
- Is the valving serviceable and/or adjustable by anyone in the US? What's yours (and other's if you know) experience with the reliability in a road race environment (have you been tracking them for a while and checked their dyno response over time, seen any leaking, or done any other data gathering beyond your buttometer)?
- In what types of environments have you driven these and did they give you the tunability you wanted, like desired compression/rebound, or did you find anything limiting?
- Did the pairs of shocks come matched or did you have to tweak them to get the dyno plots lined up? Wondering if dyno plots for the same settings matched, and if adjustments altered each side equally.

I have these answers when it comes to KW V3, and don't for AMR (and this is just because I personally haven't seen the data out there on these). These are the sorts of things racers should be asking. We don't give a rat's ass if the "driveability and control" is "good".

-I cannot say which they were comparing them to but my guess would be the lower end, which are still higher quality than most of the other options. I can link you to my original thread with the reps review if you like?
-each kit is built to order based on vehicle, weight, type of race use, desired spring rates, etc. Valving is then based on all the above. Andy is always more than willing to share more specifics if you simply email him.
-they are completely tunable and serviceable by ANYONE capable
-so far the only use I've had is on the street. This is a street car. The 1g is my racecar and honestly, I didn't expect the AMR's to be as good as they are. With that said, I plan to prep the 2g for more track duty and then I can say more about them. As of now, I can only say that I can push the 2g just as hard as I can the 1g on the STREET.
-the shocks were dynod on full soft and full hard and were perfectly matched without tweaking. Again...each set is made specific.

 

[TSiAWD666]

-I cannot say which they were comparing them to but my guess would be the lower end, which are still higher quality than most of the other options. I can link you to my original thread with the reps review if you like?
-each kit is built to order based on vehicle, weight, type of race use, desired spring rates, etc. Valving is then based on all the above. Andy is always more than willing to share more specifics if you simply email him.
-they are completely tunable and serviceable by ANYONE capable
-so far the only use I've had is on the street. This is a street car. The 1g is my racecar and honestly, I didn't expect the AMR's to be as good as they are. With that said, I plan to prep the 2g for more track duty and then I can say more about them. As of now, I can only say that I can push the 2g just as hard as I can the 1g on the STREET.
-the shocks were dynod on full soft and full hard and were perfectly matched without tweaking. Again...each set is made specific.

Thanks for sharing! Great answers. Now we all know a bit more about where you're coming from with your recommendation.

Regarding the tuning and servicing, who is capable? Are the internal parts readily available in some sort of standard form readily accessible to shops, or are we dependent on proprietary parts from AMR? Are there special tools required? Or perhaps someone with access to Ohlins or Penske parts is good enough? Not nitpicking, but these are important clarifications. If you don't know exactly, no worries, but it would be helpful knowledge to share if you do.

 

[rr06rs]

Thanks for sharing! Great answers. Now we all know a bit more about where you're coming from with your recommendation.

Regarding the tuning and servicing, who is capable? Are the internal parts readily available in some sort of standard form readily accessible to shops, or are we dependent on proprietary parts from AMR? Are there special tools required? Or perhaps someone with access to Ohlins or Penske parts is good enough? Not nitpicking, but these are important clarifications. If you don't know exactly, no worries, but it would be helpful knowledge to share if you do.

No worries at all! As far as what I meant by anyone capable, I just meant anyone with the knowledge of how to tune them. As for parts, I would assume that you would want to go through AMR first because I honestly couldn't tell you what is made in house and what is sourced. From what I've read, it seems the hats(which contrary to what some stated in my last thread about the lack of standoffs, DO articulate over a full 40 degrees), the bodies, coil sleeves, and adjustable perchs are all proprietary AMR made parts and the internals are sourced from what I would assume are the same sources as the lower end Penske/Ohlins, and some bilstein. No special tools are required outside the standard tools that you would use to service any other tunable/serviceable shock. If you search AMR on here and find my last thread, you'll see the rep goes into greater detail regarding the internal makeup.

Just to clarify, I STILL feel that the DG/Koni setup is an AWESOME setup for the 2g. I almost purchased it myself. I think that those that have been involved in the previous AMR threads seem to think I'm trying to say that these are BETTER when I recommend them, and this is not the case. I wouldnt call anything better than the DG's unless they had the documented proof/winning history to back it. The more I talked with Andy, however, the more I felt the need to take the dive and try something DIFFERENT. I do have to apologize to Cinder as well, as that IS exactly what he said in his pm regarding the kit back when we discussed it before and I do remember that now. If someone was building a track car and needed a tried and true setup, I'd still recommend the DG/Konis. For someone novice like the original poster, considering some of the others he has considered and been recommended in this thread, I do feel that these at least deserve a spot on the list right before the DG's....at least until someone with a TRULY competitive setup takes the dive like I did and puts them to the test. Until my car is to that point, this is the best insight I can give

 

[lilwine]

Wow! thanks for the good inputs. I have never had megan racing coilovers but like i said, i've heard good things about them. and no it's not a honda person. I am looking into all of the suggestions as we speak. Price isn't an issue but i obviously dont want to drop 3k on a set. I am checking into my options and will let you guys know what i choose

 

[jtmcinder]

Since we're all in clarification mode, let me say that the reason that I was worried about AMRs is that they are plain monotubes. I'm not saying anything against AMR in particular. But, for X dollars, as a general rule (for which I'm sure that there are exceptions), you will get much better damping from a twin-tube with a foot-valve than a plain monotube with a two-way head.

If 2Gs had struts, then the strength advantages of a monotube over a typical twin-tube would flip my default suggestion. But 2G don't have struts. The idea of having all the extra unsprung weight of double-wishbone and then lugging a massive monotube around, as well, makes no sense to me.

 

[lilwine]

I had BC coilovers on my srt4 and i wasn't impressed and those ran me 1200 dollars. That's why I'm being so cautious is what I buy