Best Ported Cylinder Head (700+whp)

[dsm dork]

If you were to send a deposit on one till they came in, and talked to John (shep) you'd realize that the head isn't as crazy as you might imagine. In fact the exhaust ports are acutally smaller then the stage 6 polk head, just my 2 cents though

I already have someone that does my head work so I wouldn't be interested in anything foxlake would have to offer. I'm sure they do great work and yes they have done headwork on the fastest awd 4cylinder. What does this mean? Do they offer a better head then polk just because shep is going faster? No one could really say. Shep's car use to run a polk head and as you stated had bigger exhaust ports. Does this mean that sheps car is going faster then it did with polks head just because of foxlakes "special bowl design" and smallter exhaust ports? No. The car has gone through so many changes it would seem to say that the head made a major difference if any at all. Yes shep runs a foxlake head but so what? Is anyone in here even near johns level? Maybe 1 or 2. So unless you are up to "shep par" then who cares what head he runs? Unless of course you just want to be cool and say "i run a foxlake head like shep does".

You should chose the best head for your best setup and what you think your car will need for the purposes it has been built.

 

[definitiveno]

You should chose the best head for your best setup and what you think your car will need for the purposes it has been built.

How does one go about deciding what head will be best for their setup?

Honest question, I am not sure and I am just about to build a head.....


Also why is polk offering "full race cnc porting" hundreds of dollars below other companies? What do they know that the others don't or what is it they are half assing?

 

[nanokpsi]

How does one go about deciding what head will be best for their setup?

Honest question, I am not sure and I am just about to build a head.....


Also why is polk offering "full race cnc porting" hundreds of dollars below other companies? What do they know that the others don't or what is it they are half assing?

My advice would be just to call the shops you are interested in and talk with them. Don was great in helping with my build. My set up shouldn't have a problem making over 7000whp either
As for the cost of their CNC porting, I'm sure there are only a couple CNC programs for the DSM heads. The amount of work that goes into them on top of the CNC job may factor in and it might come back to how many CNC jobs each company does. I am willing to bet that Polk has a lot done so he may get a price break.

 

[dsm dork]

Do what nanok said. Call around a couple places, explain your setup, see what they know and suggest and get a price. Then go from there.

 

[definitiveno]

I can see how the conversation is going to happen now, every mechanic or shop will tell me they have the best and every one elses products are junk. Fact of dsm consumer industry life.

I have yet to get straight answers from shop owners and in the last 1.5 years of this build I have spoken to alot.....

 

[nanokpsi]

I don't think many reputable shops will bash any other shops work. They may not agree with them but I doubt they will say its crap.
I know AMS used to have Forrester do their porting for the DSM stuff, not sure if that changed or not.
Buschur does good work, Polk does good work, etc. Those tuners have been around for a long time, and have built up a good reputation for a reason. I can garuntee you that no one here has dynoed all of the above heads to see which one is best so all of the answers you get here will be based on some opinion and some personal relults. To be truthful, I've seen 700whp on stock 1g head. On a turbo car its all based on the rest of the set up and how much boost you are willing to run.

 

[gixrman]

What are you talking about? What do you mean by "aftermarket"? Do you mean that the core is required for most companies to work on the head, instead of selling modified heads to the consumer? Please click the link below for another vendor:


Jackson Auto Machine

I'm talking about company's that cast there own head. Elderbrock, dart, etc. maybe change the runner design, injector location...

 

[nanokpsi]

I'm talking about company's that cast there own head. Elderbrock, dart, etc. maybe change the runner design, injector location...

I've wondered that too, but its probably becuase people can make so much power on a worked stock design. If you can mkae 600+whp out of a stock head it might be hard to sell aftermarket heads. I've also wondered why no one does a block for our cars but the blocks are so strong there wouldn't be much of a market.

 

[dsm dork]

I've wondered that too, but its probably becuase people can make so much power on a worked stock design. If you can mkae 600+whp out of a stock head it might be hard to sell aftermarket heads. I've also wondered why no one does a block for our cars but the blocks are so strong there wouldn't be much of a market.

There would be a market with the right people. You forget what 90% of the mitsu owner crowd is but we won't get into that.

I'm sure any of the above mentioned shops will have something that will work right for you. Pretty much just depends on who you want to go with and their track record and personal choice. I actually went to a local proven domestic head shop for my head work. To each his own.

 

[TSIfreek]

I already have someone that does my head work so I wouldn't be interested in anything foxlake would have to offer. I'm sure they do great work and yes they have done headwork on the fastest awd 4cylinder. What does this mean? Do they offer a better head then polk just because shep is going faster? No one could really say. Shep's car use to run a polk head and as you stated had bigger exhaust ports. Does this mean that sheps car is going faster then it did with polks head just because of foxlakes "special bowl design" and smallter exhaust ports? No. The car has gone through so many changes it would seem to say that the head made a major difference if any at all. Yes shep runs a foxlake head but so what? Is anyone in here even near johns level? Maybe 1 or 2. So unless you are up to "shep par" then who cares what head he runs? Unless of course you just want to be cool and say "i run a foxlake head like shep does".

You should chose the best head for your best setup and what you think your car will need for the purposes it has been built.

Completly agree word for word (theres someone with common sense on this board?)
Its like saying I run a T66 turbo threw the stock side mount.

 

[GVR4592]

I already have someone that does my head work so I wouldn't be interested in anything foxlake would have to offer. I'm sure they do great work and yes they have done headwork on the fastest awd 4cylinder. What does this mean? Do they offer a better head then polk just because shep is going faster? No one could really say. Shep's car use to run a polk head and as you stated had bigger exhaust ports. Does this mean that sheps car is going faster then it did with polks head just because of foxlakes "special bowl design" and smallter exhaust ports? No. The car has gone through so many changes it would seem to say that the head made a major difference if any at all. Yes shep runs a foxlake head but so what? Is anyone in here even near johns level? Maybe 1 or 2. So unless you are up to "shep par" then who cares what head he runs? Unless of course you just want to be cool and say "i run a foxlake head like shep does".

You should chose the best head for your best setup and what you think your car will need for the purposes it has been built.

There was flowbench testing done on the Fox Lake ported 4g63 head and it impressed the hell out of Shep, which is one of the reason's he is using their head. The cylinder head was one of many reasons why his car went much faster this year. The point is Fox Lake obviously knows what they're doing with cylinder heads, not just because of Shep's car, but because of all of the successes they have had in racing.

 

[dsm dork]

There was flowbench testing done on the Fox Lake ported 4g63 head and it impressed the hell out of Shep, which is one of the reason's he is using their head. The cylinder head was one of many reasons why his car went much faster this year. The point is Fox Lake obviously knows what they're doing with cylinder heads, not just because of Shep's car, but because of all of the successes they have had in racing.

How can you say it's one of the many reasons? And how can you say that if it is a reason it has gone faster, how much it affected that? Look at how fast shep went last year with the way the car was and the setup and then how many things have changed since then and to what it is doing now. The whole car was completely different. The car is much lightere, the whole rear suspension has been changed, along with the clutch setup and the launch technique. I am not say it's not a reason but it's not the ONLY reason. You also can't correctly say how much it has helped or if it has at all because of all the changes. Yes I know foxlake has alot of success with their heads and racing but I have seen plenty of shops out there with just as much success if not more. And a flowbench on a head only gives you half the story on the head. It's like a dyno graph for a race car. Doesn't mean dick unless everything else is setup right.

 

[nanokpsi]

How can you say it's one of the many reasons? And how can you say that if it is a reason it has gone faster, how much it affected that? Look at how fast shep went last year with the way the car was and the setup and then how many things have changed since then and to what it is doing now. The whole car was completely different. The car is much lightere, the whole rear suspension has been changed, along with the clutch setup and the launch technique. I am not say it's not a reason but it's not the ONLY reason. You also can't correctly say how much it has helped or if it has at all because of all the changes. Yes I know foxlake has alot of success with their heads and racing but I have seen plenty of shops out there with just as much success if not more. And a flowbench on a head only gives you half the story on the head. It's like a dyno graph for a race car. Doesn't mean dick unless everything else is setup right.

In all truth, the only one that could tell the head changed anything would ge Shep. Only he knows what he had to do to the fuel curve. The boost numbers I have heard him running are similar to what he ran last season (where they should be a good amount less if the head was flowing that much better since his turbo is the same).
There's also no point in runing a head like him unless you are going to run his cams too. Porting to improve flow at > .440lift doesn't get you much if you don't have the cam for it

 

[GVR4592]

How can you say it's one of the many reasons? And how can you say that if it is a reason it has gone faster, how much it affected that?

Let's take a look at my statement

The cylinder head was one of many reasons why his car went much faster this year.

Where in that statement did I said I knew how much it helped?

I am not say it's not a reason but it's not the ONLY reason.

I never said it was the only reason, as far as I can tell nobody said anything like that.

he car is much lightere, the whole rear suspension has been changed, along with the clutch setup and the launch technique.

Going back to my original statement

The cylinder head was one of many reasons why his car went much faster this year.

So what the hell is your point?

 

[DSMu4ia]

Forrester Racing Heads used to do some of the nicest porting I had ever seen.

Unfortunately Dale/Forrester is no longer doing headwork.

Read up alot about head porting, get knowledgeable, and then ask your questions to whatever shops you have in mind.

 

[DragGSX]

I love how almost All threads turn into a c0ck fight..

Besides that

I port match all my own heads and then i leave the rest up to my local machine shop.
I feal they do good work and im happy with the gains ive felt over the few cars ive had them work on...Im sure theres other companies out there that could CNC my heads and i could get alot better numbers but hey..itsa local shop, does good work, its fast and decent prices. So im happy

Besides im not on the level of being able to spend 2-3k ona drop in Stage "30" port/internals.

 

[turbo90gsx]

I can atest for EnginTecs work. They did an awesome job porting my head and getting everything to spec. For an all out drag car I would look into something CNC'd. Jacksons Auto Machine has but out some bitching CNC'd heads.

 

[4SFED4]

I have a CNC ported head from M2 Race in NJ.

http://m2race.com

 

[TSisleeper]

My advice would be just to call the shops you are interested in and talk with them. Don was great in helping with my build. My set up shouldn't have a problem making over 7000whp either

Holy sh*t dude, we all need to talk to you and Don if your head will do 7000 whp!!!
just giving you a hard time man, your right though about calling around. Unless your absolutely set on over building your head.. Like me!

 

[TSisleeper]

I've made over 700 whp how about you (nanokpsi)?

 

[nanokpsi]

I've made over 700 whp how about you (nanokpsi)?

Not yet. I should have pump gas numbers from the new motor here shortly.

If you've already made the power, why so many questions?

 

[4SFED4]

If you've already made the power, why so many questions?

Good question.
Just because you have X cylinder head doesn't guarantee you will make over 700 HP.
I went through different turbos, ICs, piping size, TBs and other supporting mods before deciding the head was my limiting factor.
If you have a turbo capable of 50lbs/min and your current cylinder head supports it, why upgrade the head first. If you plan on using a bigger turbo, try it fist to see how far you can get. When you have a turbo you know is capable of more than what you can produce, then I would look to the next step.

 

[hostile]

I've made over 700 whp how about you (nanokpsi)?

Lets see some pics of your engine bay and dyno.