420A Best aftermarket ECU for 420a Talon

[Mc0ck1ner]

Ive got a 1995 Eagle Talon, its a 420a, automatic transmission. previous owner had already replaced the stock ecu with a refurbished ecu. cant find any wreckers in canada with one. im fairly new to this kind of stuff. what would be the best option for an aftermarket ecu? im not going to be using it for any crazy mods, ive got a couple minor mods already like adjustable cams and a ram intake. just want to know what i could use instead of a stock ecu since i cannot find one. literally any help is appreciated, thanks!

 

[Canadian_CD9A]

There are no plug-in aftermarket ECUs for 420A, but you will need some sort of aftermarket engine management solution to run non-stock cams properly. To use an aftermarket ECU, you will have to re-wire the engine harness to adapt to whatever universal aftermarket ECU you choose - they'll all install the same, more or less. This is a complex job, and not something that a new enthusiast should try. I'd suggest you find a stock replacement ECU (there should be a bunch out there), and don't change the cams or cam settings.

 

[Mc0ck1ner]

There are no plug-in aftermarket ECUs for 420A, but you will need some sort of aftermarket engine management solution to run non-stock cams properly. To use an aftermarket ECU, you will have to re-wire the engine harness to adapt to whatever universal aftermarket ECU you choose - they'll all install the same, more or less. This is a complex job, and not something that a new enthusiast should try. I'd suggest you find a stock replacement ECU (there should be a bunch out there), and don't change the cams or cam settings.

i've been searching online and i cant find a place with any in stock. do you have any suggestions as to where to look?

and as for the cams, how will that affect the way it runs/idles? first im hearing of it so its useful information

 

[jesse12345]

Did you mean adjustable cam gears or aftermarket cams?

 

[Mc0ck1ner]

Did you mean adjustable cam gears or aftermarket cams?

just the gears, fairly certain the cam itself is stock

 

[Mc0ck1ner]

Did you mean adjustable cam gears or aftermarket cams?

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[Canadian_CD9A]

If you need an ECU, put out a WTB ad here or in the DSM forums on Facebook.

First, I wouldn't get aftermarket cam gears for stock cams on a very basic build. They'll give you very little power gain after a lot of trial-and-error. Waste of money.

Second, it may just be the photo but to me, those actually look like aftermarket cams. The don't have the same dull finish that stock cams have and look pretty close to what my Neon's Crane cams look like. Having a DIS-2 is also very unusual for something that would be stock. Did you buy this car totally stock and add the mods yourself, or did you buy it like this?

Let's go back to step 1. Does this car run? Have you ever had this car running?

 

[BLACK'98DSM]

Agree that those are aftermarket cams. The stock cams are a cast finish with no machining outside of the lobes and journals. Those look fully machined. The Crane cams that I used to run had a bright orange coating, but it does wear down over time. Those may be Crane cams. It's hard to identify which model you have without removing them and checking the ends for stamps or markings.

Stage 1 cams can run decent with the stock ecu, but for any internal modifications I definitely recommend a MegaSquirt or similar setup.

 

[Mc0ck1ner]

If you need an ECU, put out a WTB ad here or in the DSM forums on Facebook.

First, I wouldn't get aftermarket cam gears for stock cams on a very basic build. They'll give you very little power gain after a lot of trial-and-error. Waste of money.

Second, it may just be the photo but to me, those actually look like aftermarket cams. The don't have the same dull finish that stock cams have and look pretty close to what my Neon's Crane cams look like. Having a DIS-2 is also very unusual for something that would be stock. Did you buy this car totally stock and add the mods yourself, or did you buy it like this?

Let's go back to step 1. Does this car run? Have you ever had this car running?

so to clarify about the dis-2, it is not wired into anything at the moment. it fried and i just havent really bothered to take it off yet.

2. I bought the car with these mods already, the work i have done is just the basic sensors, fuel pump, filters, relays etc.

if we take it back to step one, it was running. its been a constant battle to keep it running though. started off with struggling at low rpms, would constantly try to stall when coming to stops. gradually got worse to where it was cutting out while driving, would sputter and jolt the car forward. and recently would just start revving to around 2k rpm at idle. until i took it down the road and it just shut off silently, almost didnt even realize. it cranks, but theres no spark, and fuel pump wont prime

 

[Canadian_CD9A]

Struggling at low RPMs and stalling when coming to a stop are typical behavior of big cams. My Neon’s ECU is tuned to run better, but it still struggles until it learns to adapt to the Crane 16s. The stock ECU can’t compensate for bigger cams, it will run pig rich at idle and have vacuum signals outside the parameters it’s tuned around. I’d suggest you identify what cams you have, and make sure that the cam magnet is in the right spot. I suspect there is something weird going on there, and that you may have cams from a Neon. A number should be carved into the end of the cams to identify them. A cam sensor out of sync will disable fuel and spark, which I just dealt with on my car.

If you want to keep the cams, make sure you have enough valve spring to support them, otherwise you’re at major risk of dropping a valve and ruining the motor. A standalone is the right solution here, but I don’t know what would be able to control the factory automatic. Most people who do this have manual transmissions.

So, my suggestion is this:

-Verify your mechanical timing is where it should be.

-Do a compression test to make sure your engine is healthy.

-Identify your cams.

-If they are 420A cams, ensure that the cam sensor is installed in the proper orientation and that you’re getting a good cam signal.

-If they are Neon or SRT cams that haven’t been properly modified to correct the dowels, just swap them out for 420A cams. It’s a complex job to make Neon cams work.

-Make sure your injectors are stock, it’s possible that they’ve been swapped. If they are larger than stock then go back to stock injectors.

-Make 100% sure that your fuel priming issue is real and not caused by the ECU. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a priming failure caused directly by the ECU in these. Did you test it with a known good fuel pump module?

-I’d suggest putting a stock coil on it. Aftermarket coils can give issues, try a junkyard coil to eliminate it as a problem.

 

[Mc0ck1ner]

Struggling at low RPMs and stalling when coming to a stop are typical behavior of big cams. My Neon’s ECU is tuned to run better, but it still struggles until it learns to adapt to the Crane 16s. The stock ECU can’t compensate for bigger cams, it will run pig rich at idle and have vacuum signals outside the parameters it’s tuned around. I’d suggest you identify what cams you have, and make sure that the cam magnet is in the right spot. I suspect there is something weird going on there, and that you may have cams from a Neon. A number should be carved into the end of the cams to identify them. A cam sensor out of sync will disable fuel and spark, which I just dealt with on my car.

If you want to keep the cams, make sure you have enough valve spring to support them, otherwise you’re at major risk of dropping a valve and ruining the motor. A standalone is the right solution here, but I don’t know what would be able to control the factory automatic. Most people who do this have manual transmissions.

So, my suggestion is this:

-Verify your mechanical timing is where it should be.

-Do a compression test to make sure your engine is healthy.

-Identify your cams.

-If they are 420A cams, ensure that the cam sensor is installed in the proper orientation and that you’re getting a good cam signal.

-If they are Neon or SRT cams that haven’t been properly modified to correct the dowels, just swap them out for 420A cams. It’s a complex job to make Neon cams work.

-Make sure your injectors are stock, it’s possible that they’ve been swapped. If they are larger than stock then go back to stock injectors.

-Make 100% sure that your fuel priming issue is real and not caused by the ECU. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a priming failure caused directly by the ECU in these. Did you test it with a known good fuel pump module?

-I’d suggest putting a stock coil on it. Aftermarket coils can give issues, try a junkyard coil to eliminate it as a problem

when it died, my first thought was the coil because it had done this before when my dis-2 died. i stupidly without checking just ordered another one, but the new coil changed nothing. i swapped the newer fuel pump out with the old one i had sitting around which i knew still worked, i had replaced it thinking it was the issue but it ended up being a sensor.

I’ve replaced the camshaft and crankshaft position sensors, aswell as the map and oil pressure sensors. majority of the sensors on the car are brand new, i wanted it to be fairly fresh. ill definitely have to have a look at everything else though.

I have a video of my car idling, i can post it and maybe you can give me your opinions on what stage you may think it is?

 

[Mc0ck1ner]

Struggling at low RPMs and stalling when coming to a stop are typical behavior of big cams. My Neon’s ECU is tuned to run better, but it still struggles until it learns to adapt to the Crane 16s. The stock ECU can’t compensate for bigger cams, it will run pig rich at idle and have vacuum signals outside the parameters it’s tuned around. I’d suggest you identify what cams you have, and make sure that the cam magnet is in the right spot. I suspect there is something weird going on there, and that you may have cams from a Neon. A number should be carved into the end of the cams to identify them. A cam sensor out of sync will disable fuel and spark, which I just dealt with on my car.

If you want to keep the cams, make sure you have enough valve spring to support them, otherwise you’re at major risk of dropping a valve and ruining the motor. A standalone is the right solution here, but I don’t know what would be able to control the factory automatic. Most people who do this have manual transmissions.

So, my suggestion is this:

-Verify your mechanical timing is where it should be.

-Do a compression test to make sure your engine is healthy.

-Identify your cams.

-If they are 420A cams, ensure that the cam sensor is installed in the proper orientation and that you’re getting a good cam signal.

-If they are Neon or SRT cams that haven’t been properly modified to correct the dowels, just swap them out for 420A cams. It’s a complex job to make Neon cams work.

-Make sure your injectors are stock, it’s possible that they’ve been swapped. If they are larger than stock then go back to stock injectors.

-Make 100% sure that your fuel priming issue is real and not caused by the ECU. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a priming failure caused directly by the ECU in these. Did you test it with a known good fuel pump module?

-I’d suggest putting a stock coil on it. Aftermarket coils can give issues, try a junkyard coil to eliminate it as a problem.

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[Canadian_CD9A]

That’s got some good chop, likely in the BC S2, Crane 16/18 realm. They can be run on a stock ECU but living with that is a bit miserable for the issues mentioned above.

 

[BLACK'98DSM]

That sounds almost exactly like my Crane stage 1 cams sounded. It's hard to tell by sound, but I recall still having the stock ecu at this time.

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