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2G Auto transmission sluggish and shifts whenever it wants, NO CODES

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Jarnutt

10+ Year Contributor
85
1
Sep 21, 2009
Peoria, Arizona
I searched and searched for the last week and haven't found a problem that sounds like mine that has had a solution yet. This is my first post, I'm not new to turbo or import tuning, but this IS my first DSM, and the automatic transmission and AWD might be a bit much for me to tackle alone.

My problem is that the car drives fine at highway speeds, downshifts hard from a 45mph roll and hauls ass when you punch it WOT. HOWEVER, it drags ass on the bottom end, the previous owner chalked it up to turbo lag since its a stock turbo and a huge front mount with an automatic. The best I can describe it, it its like accelerating with the Ebrake pulled, and then suddenly it takes off like a rocket about 30 or 40mph.

From a roll it sometimes decides to shift into second gear right after you start moving, if I choose to shift it manually (L to 2 to D), it will still drag ass to get moving, sometimes, other times it takes off fine and shifts fine, even under part throttle, normal driving, it sometimes shifts at the normal shift points, or it will out of nowhere decide to shift into second at about 10 mph and then 3rd at about 20mph. Overdrive works perfectly fine, and I don't feel or see the tranny slipping at all, the engine doesn't rev up, it just drags ass to get up there, and I'm fully boosted the whole time, its literally like having the E brake pulled.

Also I've noticed that when it DOES decide to drive normally (ish) under part throttle acceleration from a light or stop, I feel it surging a bit, almost like its pulling timing or like someone was pulling on the Ebrake softly, I'm familiar with that feeling from my other turbo car when the boost solenoid went bad it kept pulling boost and the car would kind of lunge under part throttle. I have no codes in either the ECU or TCU, just a steady short pulse, its pissing me off. I'm clueless to DSM cars as far as their quirks go, but any help would be greatly appreciated.

We pulled the pan to change the leaky gasket when the new motor went in, as the stock motor had thrown a rod, and there is no metal at all in the transmission, fluid is clean and red, and flushed it anyways. I had never driven this car until the new motor went in, so I don't know if the blown motor had the same issues or not.
 
I unplugged the solenoid harness and checked resistance to the trans (ground) and I'm getting 27ohms on the orange wire, 27ohm on the yellow wire, 18ohms on the red/blk, and 8ohm on the blk/blu. Colors might be off a bit since the wires are a bit stained and faded. I thought all four solenoids had the same resistance? Aren't they 3ohm solenoids? Just a thought.
 
I might be a little out of my league here since I'm new to DSM's, but I've had recent transmission issues that have forced me to do a hell of a lot of research. I figured I'd at least try to help. I found an overhaul manual for my trans, so I decided to see if there was one for yours. If I'm right, I believe you have a W4a33. If so, maybe this will help http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mabender/pdf/atoh3.pdf

This manual for my trans, really helped me eliminate some things, even though I have yet to find my issue :banghead: LOL

Have you checked your pulse generators? From what I read, those being bad can cause some abnormal shifting. I could be completely wrong, but just a thought.

P.S. - Typhoon *drool* that has always been a dream car of mine.
 
Yeah I thought about pulse generators, but it doesn't make sense, if I unplug the battery for a few hours, it shifts fine for a while then goes back to shifting funny.

P.s. If you've ever thought of buying a Typhoon, put 10k on the ground and burn it, that what you would have wasted on that bucket. And if you already own one, just burn your whole wallet, cause that's what its going to cost you to upkeep it. $800 for front shafts, $200 for wheel bearings on each wheel, $300 differential clutches. And that was all within 8 months.
 
Well, with my limited knowledge the next thing I would say was a bad TCU, but I'm pretty sure you said you already checked that. Good luck with the trans issue. While I'm still looking for solutions to my issue I'll keep an eye out for something that might help you. I hope the overhaul manual I linked helps a little.

P.S. - I think you just did the equivalant of telling me santa isn't real :cry:
 
I do believe that the op is very educated in mechanical issues, yet you doubt and still remain set on a torque converter? I doubt that.

I can say this, because I too am having the exact down to the T, identical problems.

Like your randomness of issues, I too am at a loss. My solution, witch may not be a solution at all, consists of ordering a roadsurge control box. This will seemingly take away all computer interference, giving me accurate data on just my shift solenoids.

If indeed this does fix my issue, I will update with my findings. I'm going to attempt to add IPT's shift firmness controller up to this setup. That way i don't burn my pump up going at slow speeds.

To my understanding I will also be able to install paddle shifters with direct control over everything. The obvious coolness factor of doing this is there. It will also allow for me to add another cup holder that will actually hold a modern day coffee mug. I'm no slouch but I like my big coffee mugs.

Also the obvious, it'll be nice to have a car that drives good or better than factory again.

To those who need more reading material, here is a link to my problem thread.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/drivetrain-tech/401135-automatic-questions.html
 
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The box has not fixed my issues. It only allows me to shift to the gears that aren't sluggish, 1st and second, then to 4th.

After talking with a few people, it seems it may be my seals on the solenoids that may have blown out and need replacing, as soon as I can find the part numbers, I'll be having a transmission shop install this.
 
Any update on this?
I have a similar issue.:banghead:

I see you gave up and are now selling the car:banghead:

Telling the potential buyer that it is a blown solenoid seal without actually confirming that is the problem is very sketchy buddy:nono:
 
I'm going to open this thread back up.

I'm having the same exact problem as jarnut, I'm also a mechanic and have done the things he has before seeing this thread. End clutches, IPT valve body, TPS. I'm going to keep this alive until we figure it out, or if someone can direct me to a thread that has an answer by posting it on this.

Anyway my next thing to try is a speed sensor and the pulse sensors. I will see if this works out and reply to this post.
 
I actually sold this car years ago BECAUSE of this issue, after a full rebuild (drum/band/TC all new) it didn't change anything, sold it cheap priced to sell. The person who bought it pulled the trans and replaced it with an auto from a wreck of the same year and that fixed everything, so obviously the issue was in the trans itself, either a sensor or something unrelated to the hard parts replaced in a normal rebuild INCLUDING TC.

Not what you wanted to hear I'm sure, but it turned me off DSMs for a while
 
I actually sold this car years ago BECAUSE of this issue, after a full rebuild (drum/band/TC all new) it didn't change anything, sold it cheap priced to sell. The person who bought it pulled the trans and replaced it with an auto from a wreck of the same year and that fixed everything, so obviously the issue was in the trans itself, either a sensor or something unrelated to the hard parts replaced in a normal rebuild INCLUDING TC.

Not what you wanted to hear I'm sure, but it turned me off DSMs for a while

Well I'm gonna keep this post alive and see if I can find that gremlin and kill it!!
 
Honestly I know a very small amount amount the DSM auto. But what springs to mind from college and the trans dyno one of the other guys used to test his self-rebuilt trans is: sticking servos/pistons, bad seals on servos/pistons/solenoids, debris in the valve body, bad check balls, faulty electrical or a bad tcu. I know thats a broad range. This particular fellow didn't do a great job of a clean install and suffered debris clogging many passages, and had to do the rebuild twice.

Debris in the valve body seems right since it's random, BUT if unplugging the battery fixes the problem for a short while, the TCU may be taking a certain amount of cycles to duplicate the issue as it adjusts it's learn (once again idk if the you has this capacity).

Replacing the TCU or using an aftermarket shift box would be one way of eliminating that issue, but one person already said that didn't fix a similar problem. That leads me to a solenoid/seal issue, since slipping doesn't seem prominent.

I know there's a good amount of hard to locate/diag. seals in these transmissions, and any one of them could have a flaw that only occasionally presents, then is stuck there till the TCU is reset, possibly changing pressure etc for a short time.

Just brainstorming.
 
Honestly I know a very small amount amount the DSM auto. But what springs to mind from college and the trans dyno one of the other guys used to test his self-rebuilt trans is: sticking servos/pistons, bad seals on servos/pistons/solenoids, debris in the valve body, bad check balls, faulty electrical or a bad tcu. I know thats a broad range. This particular fellow didn't do a great job of a clean install and suffered debris clogging many passages, and had to do the rebuild twice.

Debris in the valve body seems right since it's random, BUT if unplugging the battery fixes the problem for a short while, the tcu may be taking a certain amount of cycles to duplicate the issue as it adjusts it's learn (once again idk if the you has this capacity).

Replacing the tcu or using an aftermarket shift box would be one way of eliminating that issue, but one person already said that didn't fix a similar problem. That leads me to a solenoid/seal issue, since slipping doesn't seem prominent.

I know there's a good amount of hard to locate/diag. seals in these transmissions, and any one of them could have a flaw that only occasionally presents, then is stuck there till the tcu is reset, possibly changing pressure etc for a short time.

Just brainstorming.


well before i rebuilt my valvebody i had the problem, then i cleaned the crap out of it, and installed a shift kit, nothing sticking and everything moving freely, i still had the same problem. also i replaced the tcu and had the same issue a few miles down the road

i came across these awhile ago and im gonna read through the diagnosis article to see if i can find my issue,

MECHANICAL REBUILD AND OVERHAUL - http://www.atdsm.com/pdf/atoh3.pdf

ELECTRICAL DIAGNOSIS - https://www.scribd.com/doc/25329546/Auto-Trans-Diagnosis
 
well i found this, and it seems that maybe replacing them might help the issue, even though im not getting a check engine light these might be dirty due to being a magnet sensor, so i will start by cleaning them, and if that dont work i will replace them and see.

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Keep us updated please after cleaning. My vss jumps around and I THINK it could have something to do with it but my vss is inside the speedometer on my 1ga.
 
well i took them both out and they where clean, i still wiped them off and put them back in, still having the same issue, the transmission seems to work better cold and once it warms up is when i can feel it much more. any thoughts? i also just got off the phone with john from ipt and he is baffled too.
 
Physically tapping into the signal wires with a meter or o-scope then driving. Idk if you can monitor the pulse generators for the trans through a scan tool, possibly with a factory one, but aftermarket idk.
 
Physically tapping into the signal wires with a meter or o-scope then driving. Idk if you can monitor the pulse generators for the trans through a scan tool, possibly with a factory one, but aftermarket idk.
I wish I had a service port so I can at least scan for tranny codes!! I got a 96, I can’t find one on mine
 
I run the Smartshift 100.1 and can see tranny codes. All I get it vehicle speed sensor out of range. Does that point in any direction?
Luckly I can clear those codes and Ignore Limp mode with it.
 
I run the Smartshift 100.1 and can see tranny codes. All I get it vehicle speed sensor out of range. Does that point in any direction?
Luckly I can clear those codes and Ignore Limp mode with it.


yea i have the shift box lite from forced four now in the car, but i leave the switch on stock ecu 95% of the time and use the shift box once in a while. but i will look into that shift box you are talking about. but if there is a problem i would like to fix it rather then put a band-aid on it.
 
The only thing I haven't done is take the speedometer out and cleaned the magnetic vss sender to see if the quirkyness goes away.
 
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