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2G Anyone interested in a Carbon Fiber roof?

Posted by TSiAWD666, Oct 9, 2017

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  1. TSiAWD666

    TSiAWD666 Freelancer

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    I'm working with DHP Composites, the maker of my carbon fiber wing, to produce a carbon fiber roof (not just an overlay) for 2g cars. I'm doing it of course for weight, though others might be interested in it for purely aesthetics. Right now looking for just one more person to get this started, though potentially more could be a part of this if there's interest.

    Price is going to be $950 + shipping/handling (think 150-250 we think depending on location in the US), with 50% up front and the remainder due prior to shipping, payments via paypal. If we can get this one additional person locked in DHP believes they'll get the first handful of units shipped by end of year.

    Unit will have have a uniform carbon layer (i.e. one clean weave) on the outside so it will be suitable for simply a clearcoat if you want to show off the carbon fiber. The units will be produced by making a mold of a brand new OEM roof skin so it will be as good as it gets. DHP does aerospace composite work in his regular job so expect a quality piece.

    PM me if you're interested, but please be serious and have funds ready. We're looking to start the build immediately. Of course if there are questions to discuss let's share them here in the thread.

    Picture for attention (this is the wing I've raced with for years from DHP, works terrifically and the quality is excellent!)
    painted_wing-jpg.jpg
     

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  2. ec17pse

    ec17pse Freelancer

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    Sounds cool, so the roof as in the a pillars aswel or just the top part?

    Also whats the weight saving on this thats been calculculated.

    Good luck with this as it sounds like a great idea to shed some more weight from our heavy ass cars
     

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  3. TSiAWD666

    TSiAWD666 Freelancer

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    The panel ends at the top of the pillars. Since the panel doesn't exist I have no idea what the weight savings will be.
     

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  4. ec17pse

    ec17pse Freelancer

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    Oh i see so it keeps the structure of the main body frame still in tact, i see what your trying to do now.

    I hope you find a 2nd to get this going. Be cool to see the results
     

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  5. ec17pse

    ec17pse Freelancer

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    It just clicked in my head i spoke to someone about this recently! And i remembered it was Philip, i believe is @Atuca who has done this to his car, perhaps talk to him as if its made already is less cost for you but it is carbonetics though! So may be the downfall
    20934997_1604460299578100_2510052440445276027_o.jpg 21056038_1604467152910748_588000912095836436_o.jpg
     

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  6. jakelandry

    jakelandry Proven Member

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    Is this really a good idea on a car without a cage? Everyone always talks about how much flex our cars have through the roof skin. Also how do you affix it to the car? Rivets?
     

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  7. NWHTanK

    NWHTanK Proven Member

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    The carbon fiber roof would be stronger and lighter than the sheet metal roof. The carbon fiber roof would most likely be bonded with a high strength panel adhesive.
     

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  8. rival

    rival Proven Member

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    I'm game.. lets do this!
     

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  9. jakelandry

    jakelandry Proven Member

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    It may be lighter and stronger but it's not as flexible and panel bond would likely give more than spot welds. I'm not saying you or anyone here is wrong in stating that it's an improvement, it just raises concern with me that it may not hold up well to our sloppy chassis. personally I'd like to have it and I don't think it's unreasonably priced, but I think welding on a metal roof skin ties in the pillars better. The skin is brazed in on the 4 corners which is a connection that may not work well with an epoxy. I will say panel bond would hold the skin on ridiculously well, but I don't know if it would offer the structure of welds.

    I'm about to cut my skin off in favor of a non sunroof setup so this would be equally as easy for me to pick up and install, but I would need to be convinced it would offer as much structure as a spot and stitch welded roof skin. I've stitch welded my entire chassis and am currently getting a cage so I'd love for someone to tell me it is worthwhile as I haven't researched it much and this would be a great time to do it.
     

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  10. charles greene

    charles greene Proven Member

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    This could be something I'd buy in the future. I'll keep an eye on this!
     

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  11. spyderdrifter

    spyderdrifter Freelancer

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    Everyone talks about carbon being stronger than steel and so forth, but it isn't stronger in every direction. If you came up and hit identical size sheets of carbon and steel, same thickness, the steel would dent, and the carbon would crack. I have no issues with carbon as long as it serves a purpose, but to me having a carbon roof skin wouldn't protect as much as a steel skin for the reason I already mentioned. It's a cool idea and don't mean to be negative about it, but it's just my thought. I worked with carbon a lot in the Army on helicopters, and to me, it's not as great as metal.
     

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  12. Eclipse 1998

    Eclipse 1998 Proven Member

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    I'm curious, during your time in the Army what experience did you have with carbon on helicopters? I'm assuming you were a helicopter mechanic?
     

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  13. spyderdrifter

    spyderdrifter Freelancer

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    Yes, I was, of sorts. I did structural and body repair. Most "helicopter mechanics" argued that those in the job field I was in weren't real mechanics, but I turned plenty of wrenches like they did, and couldn't use a manual like them. Experience only, most of the time. I mostly dealt with aluminum, steel, fiberglass, and Kevlar, but still had carbon and titanium here and there. The carbon work was limited to apaches, but I also worked on those more than the others because of the units I was assigned to. There isn't a lot of carbon compared to all the other materials, but it's used mostly in areas that are high heat areas that would burn up the fiberglass that was used before the engineers redesigned those parts and had them built with carbon instead.
     

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  14. TSiAWD666

    TSiAWD666 Freelancer

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    Ah I meant to say this in the original post. I intended this for the racing folks with cages.

    However, if I had an non-caged car, having looked at the roof skin and the underside structure, I think the skin adds very little chassis rigidity vs a bonded composite panel, especially if you keep all of the underside roof structure. Look at the picture of Atuca's exposed roof, there's a ton of structure still there that would all still be linked by the panel. However, I am NOT a Mechanical Engineer (EE from school, but I do IT work) so don't take my word for it. Unless we get a solid answer of a Mech-E you're taking some risk in trying this out.

    On Carbonetics... I'm aware he sells a roof overlay, not a direct replacement. I'm also aware Sergio made Phil a non-overlay panel that was a complete one-off production. Lastly I'm aware of Sergio's questionable quality, utter lack of responsiveness, and ridiculously poor timeliness.

    Chassis bonding epoxy is my current plan.

    With all that said, we have our third participant so we're looking to get this ball rolling. DHP did say they could take orders beyond three, but those may not ship before the end of the year.
     

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  15. ec17pse

    ec17pse Freelancer

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    I did not know if you knew about philips or not as sometimes things are missed so thought i better mention it incase
     

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  16. TSiAWD666

    TSiAWD666 Freelancer

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    Hey sorry, I was terse in my response. I wrote this quickly since I'm at work. The info on Atuca and Sergio certainly could have been helpful, just didn't work out to be in this case. Thank you for sharing it though.
     

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  17. ec17pse

    ec17pse Freelancer

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    no problimo dude, always here to help if I can If i remember it, haha
     

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  18. Atuca

    Atuca Supporting Member

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    I should probably try to be more active on the forums, but its rare to find race car stuff here anymore. John and Kev usually know whats going on with my car, but always feel free to share and tag me, it gives me alerts to poke my head in here again :)

    I haven't fully installed my cap yet, but as John said, Sergio made changes to the skin he usually sells so I could use it as a replacement, adding in some extra carbon reinforcement. Now, that didn't make it super rigid, but since my roll cage is tied into my car with gusset (or at least will be) anything the oem (or now carbon in my case specifically) roof provided in regards to rigidty via spot welds/rivets/<insert general fasener> will be vastly overshadowed by the cage.

    In my case, I had a moon roof car, so it needed to be replaced anyways, and carbon was just the most lightweight option and I was already getting aero parts from Sergio. If I was going to wait 6+ months for those parts, what is another <undisclosed time> more?

    FYI: Moonroof sheet metal moon roof weight:

    14 pounds.

    Now I am being lazy, but you can look up weight of the moonroof assembly/glass and anything else you want to weigh up there, add it together and its pretty clear going with a carbon piece saves a ton of weight.

    That said: The OEM sheet metal top (no moonroof) is not that heavy when compared to the moonroof's renforced metal area. And as John noticed, the roof doesn't connect with car unibody reinforced areas much, it just had some.. rubber like goop to keep it from rattling. It is only connected around the perimeter of the sheet metal top, and 6 screws which to me seemed more like a stand off than anything else. I left a lip there to mount my carbon unit. I will likely use quarter turn fasteners because race car, and I like be able to take stuff off my car, though maybe the roof is one area I could semi-perm mount it with an industrial 3m adhesive and look a little cleaner.. meh..

    20841403_1596132283744235_1809031060_o.jpg
     

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  19. AwD4g63TsI

    AwD4g63TsI Proven Member

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    I've got to agree with spyder. I also work as a helo mechanic and we have one very large section of carbon fiber on our birds..the new upturned exhaust fairings. They're extremely rigid in all directions, but they're also about 1/8" thick. The carbon hatch I have is only 1 layer of carbon fiber and it twists so easily that I have to be careful when closing the hatch to make sure I do it evenly. Sandwiching foam between 2 layers of carbon would add incredible strength with negligible weight. Perhaps a full skin that spanned down both a pillars and down the rear "c" pillars like a cap, but then was freestanding over the roof section where it was reinforced.....add helmet humps for style and additional rigidity. It's a lot of work but I think it would look awesome and wouldn't necessitate a cage. I'd buy that for sure if someone made it
     

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  20. TSiAWD666

    TSiAWD666 Freelancer

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    In case it's of any interest, here's one of the three completed carbon fiber roof panels DHP Composites produced. The weight is 6.1lbs. I can hold this up with my pinky.

    If anyone is interested in one DHP still has the mold. You can PM me for information, but understand this is high level stuff and comes at a premium, especially since it's all done one at a time in the USA and not produced down in Tijuana.

    The box it came in (all wood):
    20180112_153041-jpg.jpg


    20180116_195543-jpg.jpg

    20180116_200319-jpg.jpg

    20180116_200348-jpg.jpg

    20180116_200544-jpg.jpg
     

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  21. warren

    warren Proven Member

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    I would buy it. But have no idea how to mount it or removed my old roof skin
     

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  22. Strm Trpr

    Strm Trpr Proven Member

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    I'm looking to remove my sunroof as well, but I was gonna reskin it with a non-sunroof oem skin.
    How much does something like this cost a person?
     

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  23. 99gst_racer

    99gst_racer Moderator

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    Wow, that is sexy!
     

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  24. TSiAWD666

    TSiAWD666 Freelancer

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    Sent you a PM with details. Since neither I nor DHP are vendors here I didn't think pricing details were appropriate.
     

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  25. ec17pse

    ec17pse Freelancer

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    Didnt you say up top it was 950+shipping
     

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