Anyone Ever use Propane injected directly to the exh manifold?

[turboglenn]

I think the WRC cars dump extra fuel and then inject the oxygen to get it back to a a/f that will actually burn.

The Prodrive P2 car would be a good look. If I was an awd in autocross I'd love to have this setup on the car. Especially a switchable unit where I could shut it off during daily driving. It'd cost me another $500 for a new turbo every year (or more), but it would turn lag time to nothing.

Not sure if you're familiar with it, but the way anti lag works ( the kinds that are programmable in a stand alone anyway ) is this.

You can turn it on via a switch, and then when certain programmable parameters are met it starts to function. On mine it's an amount of less than 100% throttle, a certain coolant temp and a minimum RPM at which to engage it to allow it to work when you want it to after the switch is enabled.

Then you set parameters that actually perform the anti lag. They are: Retarding the timing to a point of AFTER top dead center up to 70 degrees ATDC and also adding extra fuel... basically it starts lighting the fuel air mix while the piston it on it's way back down on the normal "power stroke" to allow for the majority of the "burn" to take place while the exhaust valves are opening throwing all it's pressure out the exhaust valves and into the turbo instead of using it to make pressure in the cylinders to power the car.

I hope that helps with what you were trying to figure out or were unsure of.


the same system works in drag racing quite well.. i can make full boost on the while staged with the clutch to the floor, enough to even have the waste gate opening on the line Then there's the "flat shift" function that retards the timing to 15* ATDC but doesn't add any fuel, it help the motor from over revving while holding the gas pedal to the floor during the shift and allow you to maintane full boost and never have to lift during a shift.. although both these funstion will really help kill your tranny fast, they are fun to use!

 

[laserspeeddemon]

the same system works in drag racing quite well.. i can make full boost on the while staged with the clutch to the floor, enough to even have the waste gate opening on the line Then there's the "flat shift" function that retards the timing to 15* ATDC but doesn't add any fuel, it help the motor from over revving while holding the gas pedal to the floor during the shift and allow you to maintane full boost and never have to lift during a shift.. although both these funstion will really help kill your tranny fast, they are fun to use!

The anti-lag system that is programmed in DSMLink just resets the rev limiter much in the same way, but not like the Rally ALS. So it's not REALLY ALS, but with the throttle at WOT it can build boost off the line. As for the other function "flat shift," we call it "no lift to shift" or NLTS.

 

[turboglenn]

And so many people ask why i run "an old haltech" when there's AEM and DSMlink. Personally i love the flexability and the real racing features that it has. It's not made to be super user friendly, but it has the real word features to operate just about any car you'd desire and all teh functions it would require. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with AEM or DSMlink, but i've noticed some of the functions aren't quite as capable or as flexible as the offerings from Haltech, Autronic and Motec.

I've been involved with the AEM since it was brought to the states by Jason Siebles as the US version of the european GEMS system. Just relabeled as "PEFIS" professional electronic fuel injection system. And i remember having 5 plug and play units of the first AEM versions and i could not get rid of them to save me. We had a saying at that time. "you can plug and play all day, but don't count on driving your car" Because of the incompatibility on highly modded cars that were trying to use the "plug-n-play" when a lot of the things that the outputs went to had been upgraded or removed altogether. ( i was very close friends with his Jason's brother Curt who now drives the truck that hauls teh AEM drag car)

However i must admit the newer systems are something wonderfull, but often loaded with too many options for the begginer to engine tuning. Once you've got some years under your belt and can take advantage of all it has to offer though, it's a very flexible system. It's just the plug and play models i really don't care for because of the PITA involved when you eliminate most of the factory emissions crap and or want change the functions of several of the outputs. The standalone "race" model is quite nice though. I jsut wish Accell's DFI would come out with a version that will fire waste spark on 2 coils without having to send it in for a modification or order a version that takes 2 extra weeks to get with that feature. but it's still a far cry from the old Version 5


Well, this got way off topic, Sorry! This jsut made me think of all the likes and dislikes of all the systems i've worked with in my life of tuning.

 

[tkelly27]

For off the line, some drag racers will use a 2nd BOV opened with compressed air to let the turbo free spin while they bounce off the rev limiter. You let it get up to 150k RPM while venting, then as soon as the car starts to go the valve slams shut and you have a ton of inertia left in the turbo to kick start your boosting.

Another thing I read on a different forum is to have a lean mixture while under non-boost conditions. Heat and pressure are what make turbines work, a lean mixture will make more heat. I assume you'd have to know what you're doing to tune for this, but when you are at less than 0 boost to a few lbs I don't think being stoich will cause mass destruction. A lot less than a "bang bang" system will anyways.

 

[mavisky]

Not sure if you're familiar with it, but the way anti lag works ( the kinds that are programmable in a stand alone anyway ) is this.

You can turn it on via a switch, and then when certain programmable parameters are met it starts to function. On mine it's an amount of less than 100% throttle, a certain coolant temp and a minimum RPM at which to engage it to allow it to work when you want it to after the switch is enabled.

Then you set parameters that actually perform the anti lag. They are: Retarding the timing to a point of AFTER top dead center up to 70 degrees ATDC and also adding extra fuel... basically it starts lighting the fuel air mix while the piston it on it's way back down on the normal "power stroke" to allow for the majority of the "burn" to take place while the exhaust valves are opening throwing all it's pressure out the exhaust valves and into the turbo instead of using it to make pressure in the cylinders to power the car.

I hope that helps with what you were trying to figure out or were unsure of.


the same system works in drag racing quite well.. i can make full boost on the while staged with the clutch to the floor, enough to even have the waste gate opening on the line Then there's the "flat shift" function that retards the timing to 15* ATDC but doesn't add any fuel, it help the motor from over revving while holding the gas pedal to the floor during the shift and allow you to maintane full boost and never have to lift during a shift.. although both these funstion will really help kill your tranny fast, they are fun to use!

That may be on your unit. But on an open class evo there's actually unit you can see on cylinders 1 and 2 with a valve that injects the air right into the exhaust manifold. As you can see it's fed straight off of the compressed air within the upper ic piping. Also of note is the fact that even on this money is no object race car, they use a vented 1g bov.

Similar effect, but different methods.

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[Mikael SS]

diesels are not gasoline engines, they have excess oxygen in their exhaust gasses that would allow propane to burn. Gasoline engines do not.

 

[JOEY A]

YouTube - mk2 xr2 running anti lag