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Any turbo's better than a Borg Warner?

Posted by v8s_are_slow, Sep 23, 2010

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  1. NOSLO2PT0

    NOSLO2PT0 Proven Member

    2,141
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    Joliet, Illinois
    Which 366 are we talking about? The junk that Bullseye sells? If so, don't even bother with that thing. Get the BW S300SX. The 79/91 version. The Honda boys have been making 750+ on those things without batting an eyelash. AND they are doing it at 30psi on a 1.9L motor.

    Full-Race Motorsports
     
  2. turboboy4

    turboboy4 Proven Member

    288
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    Joined Mar 27, 2007
    Laramie, Wyoming
    My biggest thing is the holsets seem to be bulletproof
     

    553  0

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    11.584 @ 120.970 · 2G DSM
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  3. JusMX141

    JusMX141 Moderator

    14,948
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    Greensburg, Pennsylvania
    How is this version any different than the S366 that Bullseye sells aside from the turbine housing spec?

    What you're saying is like telling someone not to buy a PTE SC5031E but instead to buy a Garrett T04E-50....when it's the same turbo. :confused:
     

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  4. viperlp01

    viperlp01 Proven Member

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    Joined Oct 9, 2006
    Kalamazoo, Michigan
    I am about to have quite a few holsets for sale on here in the next couple of days. 1 hx40 and 2 hx35s and 1 WH1C and I can get you the housings from bullseye. All my freinds are hell bent that Holsets suck and borg warners are the GOD of all turbos. I will sit back with a full t3 twin scroll set up from wastegate to manifold with the same amount invested as they do into just the turbo.
     

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    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    9.737 @ 140.310 · 2G DSM
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  5. BrokenTsi

    BrokenTsi Proven Member

    1,832
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    Joined May 3, 2003
    Rome, New York
    Jusmx141, Im kinda tired of hearing your story about Ricky's s366 everytime someone inquires about this turbo. I know you're a holset fan, but you're not really being fair by using Ricky's one time dyno pull and branding the s366 as "not impressed". You forget to mention that Rickys dyno pulls were a year apart, so his adjustable cam gears were never dialed in, and he made a couple of backroad pulls right before getting on the dyno to make 2 quick pulls without any tuning at all.

    Honestly, I have no issues with the hx40. I just know that alot of variables and factors come into play when getting hp numbers on a dyno. The horsepower doesnt ALL come from just the turbo.

    I recently went to the dyno on this turbo. I wasnt able to get a high boost pull due a failing voltage regulator, but I made a little over 500whp at 23psi on a pump gas tune on a mustang dyno (same as buschur's). AFR's were 11.5 and timing was 14 degrees. What did Ricky make? 585 at 44psi? I'm pretty positive it was well on its way towards 700whp with more time on the dyno, and peak power was still climbing all the way to 9k, even on my hks 272's.

    For everytime you say ".....Ricky's s366", I'll remind everyone about another member on here running 9.6 @ 150mph on the same t3 s366. ;)

    Here's a video of my s366 at apprx 24psi BEFORE I went to the dyno. This was on a pump gas tune thru the gm maf, and on speed density, I picked up 50whp at LESS boost on the dyno.

    I also trapped 131mpg on pump gas tune and let off the gas in 4th gear with a 2.5 60ft (greasy track). I havent been able to get back to the track yet. That alone tells me this turbo has easy 140+ and 9's written all over it.

    YouTube - BW S366 T4 24psi pump gas in a 1g DSM
     

    1K  0

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    9.693 @ 150.800 · 1G DSM
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  6. spoolin ddub

    spoolin ddub Proven Member

    598
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    Chicago, Illinois
    Bullseye takes BW turbos and modifies them to their own specs swapping BW wheels and even cutting wheels down. The S366 compressor has a 66mm ind & a 92.7mm exd where a BW 91/79 runs a 66mm ind & a 91mm exd. The turbines are different also. The S366 runs a 76.3mm, the BW 91/79 runs a 79mm, and the S366XL runs a even larger 80.1mm turbine. Then the housing differences come into play ;).

    On a side note not to take anything away from Dave's HX40 going 10.3 at 132mph but i doubt anyone anytime soon will top that. It is truly impressive. But low 10's knocking on 9's door at 132mph! I know people that were going 10.3 at 143mph! That trap tells me one thing. He can drive his ####ing ass off.

    I think this is a vid people want to see. HX40 at 33psi vs S364. Which car do you think is running the BW?

    <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/mtoNIuH0whA?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/mtoNIuH0whA?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>
     

    1K  0

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    10.560 @ 135.710 · 1G DSM
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  7. turboboy4

    turboboy4 Proven Member

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    Laramie, Wyoming
    Well let me guess its the 1g with drag radials beating the 2g with what appears to have street tires. Thats one hell of a great race:rolleyes:
     

    553  0

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    11.584 @ 120.970 · 2G DSM
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  8. v8s_are_slow

    v8s_are_slow Proven Member

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    Panama City, Florida
    This is the one I was thinking of...
    AGP Turbochargers, Inc. :: Borg Warner Turbos :: S300 Series :: Borg Warner S300 S366 Turbocharger

    It's not posted on the link but I asked them and they said they have a divided T3 in a .78 a/r (or that they were about to make them. Can't remember which).
    But I'll look that one over as well being that it's cheaper as well.

    Although I guess I need to check and make sure about the turbine outlet cause on AGP's site, they have a 3.5" outlet whereas the one you're talking about has a 3" outlet. Is that the same as the S366?
     

    2K  20

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    10.949 @ 129.77 · 2G DSM
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  9. spoolin ddub

    spoolin ddub Proven Member

    598
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    Chicago, Illinois
    It was a good street race. If you notice thru 1st and most of second the 2g had a slight lead on the 1g. After launching on a plain street Drag radials aren't a huge factor. It wasn't until 3rd that the 1g really started to pull on the 2g.
     

    1K  0

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    10.560 @ 135.710 · 1G DSM
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  10. red_devil

    red_devil Proven Member

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    Richmond, Virginia
    Thats because the 2g left first. That video doesnt prove anything without knowing boost level, what fuel, c/r (of both cars)..etc.. and also that the 1G weighs less than the 2G.
     

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    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM
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  11. spoolin ddub

    spoolin ddub Proven Member

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    Chicago, Illinois
    I can agree with that. Except the 1g being lighter. That's an excuse LOL. I'll just ask the setup etc of both cars on YouTube.
     

    1K  0

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    10.560 @ 135.710 · 1G DSM
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  12. turboboy4

    turboboy4 Proven Member

    288
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    Joined Mar 27, 2007
    Laramie, Wyoming
    Exactly my thoughts :thumb:
     

    553  0

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    11.584 @ 120.970 · 2G DSM
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  13. donniekak

    donniekak DSM Wiseman

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    Surprise, Arizona
    It's not an equal comparison. No doubt the bw will make more power, it's a much larger turbo. For what it's worth, i saw a honda run 10.1 smoking tires till halftrack on a bw 300 series turbo.
     

    Street Build 4K  0

    1991 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 1G DSM
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  14. nfernotalon

    nfernotalon Proven Member

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    Greeley, Colorado
    Aren't the 300 series more comparable to the Hx50 or 52s anyway?
     

    671  0

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 1G DSM
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  15. JusMX141

    JusMX141 Moderator

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    Greensburg, Pennsylvania
    It was a low MPH run for a reason, and actually his 60ft with a tenth slower than his fastest so there's a chance this could've been a 10.2. If you watch his video, you'll see the brake lights come on before the board lights up....I'll let Dave explain:

     

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    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    manual · 2G DSM

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    manual · 1G DSM
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  16. -red97rum-

    -red97rum- Proven Member

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    Upland, California

    3K  0

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    10.67 @ 126.86 · 1G DSM
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  17. thecman02

    thecman02 Proven Member

    96
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    Joined Feb 18, 2005
    Kalamazoo, Michigan
    Having run both hx40 (58mm) and bep259ett I have to say those are very competitive and similar turbos. At 25 psi they both feel so close in spool and power that I'd run whatever brand turbo you can get for the cheapest price that will run the power you need. Both these setups were in a bolt on .55dsm flange. The video of the 1g vs 2g doesn't really prove much other then the 1g is faster, but there are numerous differences besides turbo.
     
  18. spoolin ddub

    spoolin ddub Proven Member

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    Chicago, Illinois
    v8s_are_slow I will say this. A well built turbo is just that. A turbo. Some spool faster but fall off, some have more lag but killer topend, then there are the turbos that can do it all. You have journal bearing, BB, TBB and even real serious drag QuadBB turbo's (which withstand 100psi). It all depends on your budget, your setup and what the car is used for. It's not a straight white and black answer. There is a grey side. They can all hit a number.


    Oh. I see. Makes more since now.
     

    1K  0

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    10.560 @ 135.710 · 1G DSM
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  19. dsm-onster

    dsm-onster DSM Wiseman

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    Bloxom, Virginia
    ^^^yes. But please compare turbos between the same 'gray areas'.The s259ett and hx40 are a closer comparison than the hx40 and s362/66/70... Significant difference.

    After that, sure. It`s just brand preference and wallet.

    I don`t know what was going on with Ricky`s car. His logs were accurate at 80lb/min. If you want an 80-90lb/min holset you need an hx50/52/55. If you want a garret, you want a gt4094
     

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    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    manual · 1G DSM
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  20. spoolin ddub

    spoolin ddub Proven Member

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    Chicago, Illinois
    True. You are correct a s259 and HX40 do perform similar. Depending on his goals that is what he should comparing. v8s_are_slow how much HP are you looking to make, and what are the goals for your car (street, drag etc). Those are the most important questions. Then you look at performance.
     

    1K  0

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    10.560 @ 135.710 · 1G DSM
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  21. BrokenTsi

    BrokenTsi Proven Member

    1,832
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    Joined May 3, 2003
    Rome, New York
    The 1g is a member on the link forums. He runs about 33psi on meth injection and logs about 70lbs or maybe a bit more at these boost levels.
     

    1K  0

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    9.693 @ 150.800 · 1G DSM
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  22. dsm-onster

    dsm-onster DSM Wiseman

    8,594
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    Joined Jul 11, 2004
    Bloxom, Virginia
    Yes similar wheel diameters, similar spool with similar turbine housing options. The s258 compressor map looks very similar to the pro40 map with a little less peak flow.
     

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    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    manual · 1G DSM
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  23. JusMX141

    JusMX141 Moderator

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    Greensburg, Pennsylvania
    I'm a fan of any turbo that is efficient at generating airflow, making power and does so reliably. This can be a BW, Garrett, MHI, Holset....it doesn't matter to me.

    Ricky's S366 made airflow, no doubt about that. Why the airflow wasn't translating into power is beyond the turbo....perhaps there was a tuning issue that needed addressed.

    I'm the guy that brought to the table the initial suggestion of putting the S366 on Dave's car once Ricky decided he didn't want to use it anymore. Maybe it wasn't working on Ricky's 2.4 street car, but it might be just what Dave's 2.0 race car needs. That remains to be seen.

    The point I wanted to make was that the S366 didn't impress me because I didn't feel the power increase (?) was worth the additional lag over the HX40, and the fact that the S366 is now on it's third set of journal bearings since it's inception. The original owner of the S366 made over 700whp with it, used it for under 1000 miles, and when Ricky got it the turbo had almost enough shaft play to let the wheels hit the housings. Tore it down and found the turbine-side journal bearing was heavily discolored, showing heat scoring on the shaft. We figured it was not oiled properly on the previous owners car for the amount of boost it saw, so Ricky called Bullseye and they told him to run a -3AN line from the filter housing. He did so, and around 400 miles later with just one trip to the track, the turbo had as much shaft play as it did when he got it. He rebuilt it again the day before the Shootout, and went back to -4AN unrestricted from the filter housing, and to my knowledge that's what was used until the turbo was removed.

    I'm not hating on BW turbos- obviously there are guys having great results with them....all I'm stating is that what I've personally seen so far does not impress me in the least.
     

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    manual · 2G DSM

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  24. BrokenTsi

    BrokenTsi Proven Member

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    Yeah, I remember him telling me about the turbo going out on him a few times. Thats unfortunate.

    I personally have mine with a -4 from the OFH, but I also don't see more than 80psi at redline. I have no balance shafts and no oil squirters either. Correctly porting the filter housing relief valve goes a long way. When I first started my engine with an unported relief, I was seeing 100+ at WOT. Too much for me, but I fixed it within the first few hundred miles.

    I will be going back to the dyno in a few weeks. I may even go to the track first to see what I can muster on street tires.

    I looked at one of my 21psi logs, 49lbs/min made 470whp on the mustang dyno. I can only imagine what another 25+lbs/min would do. (12*, 11.5 AFR's)
     

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    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    9.693 @ 150.800 · 1G DSM
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  25. MindBlowin03

    MindBlowin03 Proven Member

    578
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    Joined Apr 11, 2002
    Peckville, Pennsylvania
    That's myself vs Yellow90tsi. My car was built as a 100% true daily driver on the street, his is a top end beast that isnt the most streetable thing you've been in. He launched with 6500 anti-lag and I left at just a 6k stutterbox. He got me by about 2 cars off the line and another 1-2 during the pull. I was more than happy with my car considering the mods done to both of our cars.

    My car is a full weight, full interior 2G AWD with an 8.5:1 2.0L, 56mm HX40(34psi in vid), pump gas, water/meth, cyclone intake, 272 cams, ACT 2600 and street tires.

    Joe's car is a mostly stripped 1G AWD with aluminum rod 2.0L, BW364(33psi in vid), pump gas, water/meth, JMF intake, Q45 TB, 288 cams, twin disk etc.

    Although we are in the same neighborhood of a build you can clearly see the intentions of both motors. Mine is for drives to work, his is a highway beast. Also keep in mind I see 38psi by about 4900 and he sees 35psi at nearly 5800. Ive seen 60 lbs/min and Joe has seen 70 lbs/min fully tuned. Again, totally different setups. Also, Joe's BW has literally 1/16" shaftplay in and out since week one. It still pulls like a bear, but not sure how it hasent blown yet.

    To help with the OP. Personally, Im sticking with Holset. I have an HX40 PRO(60mm) sitting in the garage for next year. Joe, on the other hand, is happy with his BW and pretty sure he is keeping with them.
     

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    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

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    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    608 whp · 510 lb/ft · 2G DSM
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