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Any turbo's better than a Borg Warner?

Posted by v8s_are_slow, Sep 23, 2010

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  1. v8s_are_slow

    v8s_are_slow Proven Member

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    Just like the title says. Plan to get an S366 here fairly soon but you know how it goes. You do a lot of searching around to find that perfect part that ya want, think it's the best, put down a ton of money, and then shortly afterwards you find out that there was something better. My heart is set on the BW after all the good reviews I've read, I've read that the Extended Tip models spool about as fast as a ball-bearing turbo but it's rebuildable unlike the ball-bearing models, and there's a lot of guys putting down big numbers with them.

    There's a local SRT-4 guy that had an S366 and said he was swapping it for a Precision turbo. Got me to thinking, "Why?" so I asked but never got a reply. So I'm wondering, cost aside, is there anything better??? If so, why would you say that it is?

     

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  2. JusMX141

    JusMX141 Moderator

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    Ask dacowgod how he feels about the S366ETT he tried.
     

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  3. noV8undrDIShood

    noV8undrDIShood Proven Member

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    i talked to ricky at the shootout (Sat night) and if i can get past the drunken haise in my head from that night, im pretty sure he said he made quicker times with his HX40 but the s366 was a monster
     
    noV8undrDIShood

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  4. JusMX141

    JusMX141 Moderator

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    The bottom line is the S366 made 10 more HP and less torque at a higher boost level than the HX40, all while spooling 600-800rpms later than the HX40....of course the S366 is an 80+lb/min turbo so a little slower spool would be expected. He's also rebuilt the S366 twice since it's been on his car.

    I'm not impressed.


    If you're not going to be running at least 30psi, don't even think about the S366. Ricky mistakenly turned the boost down at the track one day to around 23-24psi and the car looked like a turd....had no pull at all.
     

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  5. v8s_are_slow

    v8s_are_slow Proven Member

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    Well, I do plan to run a divided housing. Wonder what type he had. T3? T4? Divided? Dsm housing? I'm sure the last one isn't likely though. I know some turbo's fail. Any of them can. Just wondering which would be the best performing turbo out there for around an 80 lb/min turbo.
     

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  6. JusMX141

    JusMX141 Moderator

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    Ricky's S366 is in a T3 .70 a/r housing, the same as his HX40. The turbo doesn't seem to be suffering from lack of turbine flow- he's logging airflow numbers that are showing the S366 to be working just fine, the torque just isn't there.
     

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  7. v8s_are_slow

    v8s_are_slow Proven Member

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    Wonder why he'd have more power and less torque...unless it's because of the slower spool. But regardless, this is one person we're talking about.

    As for Holset's, is there any place that really deals with them? I know I want a divided T3 housing with a .78 a/r housing but if I went with a Holset, I'm wondering what kind of pain I'd have to deal with trying to get the housing I want for it. I don't see any vendors for them and there's so many Holset threads that I'd read for months and probably still not get the answers I'd have. I've researched the HX52 just a tad bit but it seems that they take too long to spool on a 2.0, although of course it is around an 88 lb/min turbo. But the S366 is pretty close to it.

    I'm just trying to make sure I make the best decision here cause anything around $1k is pretty expensive if it doesn't do what I want, to be wasting that kinda money.
     

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  8. kp116

    kp116 Proven Member

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    I went from the bolt-on hx40 to a t4 divided .91 a/r s366. The turbos are completely differnt in every way possible. Its like comparing apples to oranges. I am only on 25psi and it pulls up top a lot more than the hx40 ever did. Just to see where the car might sit I ran Peepers car from a roll which trapped 129mph at the shootout. It was a little hard to judge but only at 25psi it seemed about even or I might have pulled a little in 4th. The s366 is a monster and I can't wait to actually wake this thing up! There are plenty of people running a borg warner on their cars and performing amazing!

    Are you referring to the dyno at the shootout? Didn't Devin Shultz's car also only make like 5xxwhp? But yet as soon as he got back to chitown he put it on another dyno and it made like 797whp? Even though that was on a dynojet but still the numbers on buschers mustang should have been a lot more.
     
  9. talondave

    talondave Honorary Wiseman

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    I'm doing the jmf top mount manifold with a Hx52 sometime next year! But so far I love my Hx40, and haven't maxed it out yet, I flowed a high of 63lbs/min on my 10.3 pass. Should be able to get another 7-8lbs/min, on the upcoming trip to the track in a couple weeks to claim (hopefully) a 9 sec pass!!!
    Ricky said I should put his s366 on my car and see what it would do when I go! But I'm not done with the Hx40 yet.
     
    talondave

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  10. talondave

    talondave Honorary Wiseman

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    That is true, but Ricky dynoed the Hx40 and the s366 on the same dyno! Whether is reads low or not, should of seen some difference, wouldn't you think?
     
    talondave

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  11. v8s_are_slow

    v8s_are_slow Proven Member

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    Well, I'm not going with a bolt-on housing. I'll be going with a topmount divided exhaust manifold. I know some people go with Garrett, some with Precision, some BW, and some Holset. I've read good things about Holsets, but I've seen more "big" numbers with BW. Just getting extra opinions though. Are different turbine housings even available for Holsets? Thing about Holsets I don't like is that I don't see "new" Holsets. I see used ones (and I hate buying used parts), and not sure which Holsets are real or fake. I don't wanna screw around and take a chance there.....unless I just went to the dealer and bought one new but I'm sure I'd be forking out some money then.
     

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  12. kp116

    kp116 Proven Member

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    True but on a mustang you can definetly mess with the numbers I thought. Wasn't his dyno between the two a year apart? Maybe comparing trap speeds or maybe put it on a dyno jet.
     
  13. talondave

    talondave Honorary Wiseman

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    Yeah, they were a year apart. Maybe we can take his car and rent a dyno jet and do a back to back test with the Hx40 and s366 sometime this winter! Or I will on my car!!!
     
    talondave

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  14. kp116

    kp116 Proven Member

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    That would be interesting!
     
  15. v8s_are_slow

    v8s_are_slow Proven Member

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    Sounds interesting, but I may have a turbo before then. Still interesting though.
     

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  16. viperlp01

    viperlp01 Proven Member

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    Well just to let you know. My business is not a supporting vendor on this site yet but we have an in with BEP. So we can get all there housings for a good deal. With that being said I am going hx40g with a divided t3 next year. The WH1C I have spools slower on the stroker and I don't know if there is a problem with that turbo or what. I am swapping in an HX35 next week and after I reweld my damn mangus intake manifold I should have some better spool results.

    Its just ridiculous how cheap you can find Holsets. I am seriously buying 6 holsets(3 35s and 3 40s) from some guy on the cummins forums for a price that is less than 1 borg.. its really a no brainer..
     

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  17. v8s_are_slow

    v8s_are_slow Proven Member

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    AGP has a divided T3 housing with a V-band for the BW's. I don't know of anyone else that makes them. So that's a strong selling point to me. I forgot about the cummins forums. If I could get a Holset HX40 for cheap and get a turbine housing for cheap, it might be worth it. But if I'm getting a used Holset, buying a turbine housing that puts the cost close to around $1k, I'll stick with a brand new BW that has a warranty versus a used Holset without.
     

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  18. talondave

    talondave Honorary Wiseman

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    I'm going to the track in 2 weeks, and If I can click off a 9 sec pass I will make you a great deal on my Hx40 pro and housing (alot cheaper then your quote)as I'm not selling it until I prove this turbo for 9s, before switching to a bigger turbo!!!
    Just PM me if interested...
     
    talondave

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  19. v8s_are_slow

    v8s_are_slow Proven Member

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    PM'd
     

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  20. 1gDSM4g63

    1gDSM4g63 Proven Member

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    If what jusmx141 said is true about the s366 spooling 600-800 rpms slower than I'd have to say the HX52 spools faster or just as fast if you go with a twin-scroll HX52.

    It'll all pay off in the end with the HX52.
     

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  21. spoolin ddub

    spoolin ddub Proven Member

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    You can not compare a HX40 to a s366 LOL. Like posted earlier that's apples to oranges. If i'm not mistaken a HX40 has a 58mm compressor while a S366 has a 66mm compressor. Being larger of course the S366 is going to spool slower at a lower rpm range which in turn will make less tq (on low boost). Turn the wick up and the s366 will kill the HX40. When choosing a turbo pick the smallest one that will get you within your hp range. You have to be realistic with your goals. BW turbos were made for and love alot of boost. They are more efficient at higher boost levels. Be ready to run 30+ psi to hit that sweet spot! There are alot of good turbos out there. It all depends on your needs and your funds. You really can't go wrong.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2010

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  22. v8s_are_slow

    v8s_are_slow Proven Member

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    You guys really have me thinking about the Holset HX40 and debating between that and the S366. One guy on here is running 10.3's on the 40 with an open T3 .70 housing. Another guy says his S366 pulls harder at "25" psi than his HX40 ever did. But I need to be pushing 30+ psi all the time???

    Although they may be apples and oranges that everyone's talking about, one flows "x" amount, while the other flows another. People seem to be having different results but the mod list can vary a lot from one vehicle to another, the tune, and I think a big factor is the turbine housing that's chosen. Dsm, Open T3, T4, Divided, and how large or small. Sure it's gonna effect spoolup as well as the overall power output. Reason why I wanna go with a smaller housing for faster spool. Heck, I saw one guy putting out 680 something horsepower with the BEP .55 dsm housing if I saw that right.

    I've been tossing around the HX40 idea in my head cause my overall price to get the mods would be way less. The turbo itself, cheaper exhaust manifold, one wastegate, etc. if I went with a T3 or something similar. But wondering if it'd be EASIER to get the power I want with the S366 in a divided housing. I know bigger isn't always better. Also wondering if the spool with a divided T3 housing in a .78 housing would be about the same or better as an open T3 .70 housing. Another concern is getting an injector that is so big that I have to lock it in openloop on Ecmlink. I don't wanna screw around with locking my tune in openloop and end up blowing my motor cause the ecu doesn't correct for me if I'm an idiot.

    Anyway, I guess the only good turbo's are Holset and BW? No one is mentioning Garrett or any other turbo. Lol. I'm trying to weigh all options. Even considering going HX40 and if that doesn't do what I want, just upgrade. But I wanna go with what works the 1st time if possible. Hmmmm.......
     

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  23. JusMX141

    JusMX141 Moderator

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    Then why did the S366 make only 10 more HP at nearly 10psi more boost than the HX40 did the previous year on the same dyno? No other changes made to the car or the setup.

    I'm not trying to convince you to go one way or the other, just offering what results I've now seen with my own eyes. Dave's HX40 has gone 10.3, Ricky's HX40 made 575whp with boost dropping from 38 or so to under 30 by redline due to a soft wastegate spring, and one year later the same car made 585whp with a S366 holding boost steady near 40psi and logging 80+ lb/min of airflow.

    Because not many journal bearing Garretts are proven reliable to 35-40psi. If you're shelling out money for a ball bearing Garrett, the PTE6262 and FP HTA3586 are proven T3-flanged turbos.
     

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  24. v8s_are_slow

    v8s_are_slow Proven Member

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    Well then I guess it's a toss up between the Holset and BW then. Hmmm....decisions decisions.

    Edit: Just curious but does anyone know if a divided T3 turbine housing is made for the Holset HX40's?
     

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  25. JusMX141

    JusMX141 Moderator

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    They come from the factory that way....but it's a pretty huge housing (16cm).
     

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