2G Advice on a Engine Rebuild & Transmission Rebuild 2023

[FredRider]

First, I'd like to say that I have really learned a lot about cars through this amazing community of DSMers! My first car was an Eagle Talon Tsi 97 FWD Automatic. I've had the car since 2018 I bought it for just $500.00 it has a 4g63 engine.

Lets start off with the BAD. I've been looking over the forums and I can't seem to find anything like this so I decided to start my own thread.

Recently, these past couple of months my engine decided to blow a head gasket and now everytime I try to turn it on it sounds like a piston or something is hitting like a clanking metal noise... then my engine just shuts off. Now for the transmission it was slipping and I had to put the O/D mode on or off depending on how you look at it.. (I made an older post about it in the past) for me to be able to drive normally till the engine decided to quit on me...

Now I do know that there's an issue that comes with these engines called "CrankWalk" So here comes my next question is it better to rebuild the engine or swap it out for something else? I know that it can be a daunting task for most but I owe it to that car for always pulling me out of hard times when I needed it the most. So I hate for it to be just sitting there in my driveway just being forgotten. As for the transmission I was already planning on converting it to a manual due to the fact that a lot of people would tell me that they were easier to work on and thats really when these type of vehicles shined the most!

With all this being said all I am really asking is for the generational amount of knowledge from this amazing community to help or give me some tips on how I could get the gears moving again and slowly restore the vehicle. I've seen it happen plenty of times with older cars so I believe that I could also do it myself especially with how much information we now have nowadays. I want to do all this myself if I I possibly can because that's what makes us tuners in my opinion. It's ok to make mistakes and learn from them. I also have came to terms that this project might take me 3 - 5 years to even get it back and running but I don't mind it as long as I do everything right and have patience.

I know that there is some people here in the community that will just critique instead of help but thats ok I'm just a 21 year old trynna restore his first car again. I have another vehicle so I would love to have this as my weekend driver and my goal for it is to make it to where its a fast reliable weekend warrior and obviously allowing me to be able to add more perfomrance mods if I ever wanted to.

***DISCLAIMER: I am no Professional Mechanic but I do have friends that have worked on Hondas and know their way around rebuilding engines and they are more than willing to give me a helping hand withe advice or tips you all may give me!***

***I WILL BE UPDATING THIS THREAD OVER THE YEARS OR PROGRESS THAT I MAKE INCASE SOMEONE EVER COMES ALONG AND IS IN THIS PREDICAMENT. I WILL ALSO BE DELETING MESSAGES THAT DONT HELP SO I CAN KEEP IT AS ORGANIZED AS POSSIBLE AND IT DOESN'T JUST TURN INTO A RABBIT HOLE***

- FredRider

 

[FredRider]

It depends on the condition of your current one and what your build goals are. If you aren't looking to build big hp and the current crank journals are descent, you can probably keep it and just have the journals polished. This will require new bearings sized to make up for the smaller journal diameter (due to material removed from polishing)... which is why you should either have a good machine shop take care of things, or havw good micrometers and a methodical process to measure the journals yourself and order the correct size bearings.
..

Ok sounds good I will have to take all of that into effect. Just see how much it would be to repolish and the bearings. If not I think it be best to order a new one

 

[FredRider]

I’m thinking about doing this what do you guys think? Since I’ve been watching his build. It’s a full set of modules dedicated to the 4g63 and the instructor is building it for reliability and performance purposes down the line.

I came across this program by a meme her from here. After it being recommended to me. It’s called HP academy

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[FredRider]

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I have finally done it I completely dissembled the engine! Now time to clean and send everything to a machine shop!

 

[FredRider]

UPDATE: August 8, 2024
So I finally found a Shop who works on 4G63 engines after calling multiple ones. This is what he quoted me and below he listed the parts I would need to get before he started on it. He also said I would have to get oversized pistons.

Do you guys have any recommendations on what brands I should look into? Thanks as always !

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[pauleyman]

First thing I see is cam bearings. What cam bearings???

 

[FredRider]

First thing I see is cam bearings. What cam bearings???

He told me the camshaft bearings.

Also, this is the camshaft I’m looking to buy :
https://stmtuned.com/products/manley-7-bolt-4g63-evo-8-9-dsm-race-series-forged-crankshaft

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Our cams don't have cam bearings, they ride in the aluminum journals of the head. Our 4g motors DO have 3 balance shaft bearings, but if this shop is familiar with the 4g63 motor, then they would know both of those things Fred. Thats $25/bearing to install. Sounds a bit steep to me. The rest didn't look bad.

 

[97egl]

300 seems steep to bore and hone a block. It's a 4 cylinder. They're not hard to do. I could be too far out of the loop on machine work cost tho. I bought a bridgeport and have steered clear of machine shops as far as I can after paying for too much garbage work.

As stated above we don't have cam bearings also they misspelled spell mitsubishi and missed an "r" at the end of cylinder head. When you have someone who needs to pay attention to detail machining the engine you gotta hope they just are rushing the paperwork and not the machine work.

 

[FredRider]

Our cams don't have cam bearings, they ride in the aluminum journals of the head. Our 4g motors DO have 3 balance shaft bearings, but if this shop is familiar with the 4g63 motor, then they would know both of those things Fred. Thats $25/bearing to install. Sounds a bit steep to me. The rest didn't look bad.

Yeah sorry I spoketo him and he did correct me on that. I thought he had told me camshaft bearings but he reassured me that nots what he had told me so that was a mistake on my part. As for how knowledgeable he is. He showed me pictures of when he had two eclispes and 1 eagle talon and how he learned to rebuild engines because of those cars. He said they were a lot of fun but he had to sell them sadly due to starting a family.

 

[FredRider]

300 seems steep to bore and hone a block. It's a 4 cylinder. They're not hard to do. I could be too far out of the loop on machine work cost tho. I bought a bridgeport and have steered clear of machine shops as far as I can after paying for too much garbage work.

As stated above we don't have cam bearings also they misspelled spell mitsubishi and missed an "r" at the end of cylinder head. When you have someone who needs to pay attention to detail machining the engine you gotta hope they just are rushing the paperwork and not the machine work.

Yeah I understand the fast typing as I was there when he wrote the invoice and asked me if I wanted a reprint of the words correctly but I told him not to. He'd just be wasting paper

 

[CKOPOCT]

hmmm... My $.02 is that I would be very cautious on this one. Is he the owner, proprietor, bookkeeper, secretary, machinist, and plumber? Is he a one-man band? It's hard to run a solid business full-time if you are the one doing everything.

The invoice isn't professional at all. "Paiment", a permanent part of the invoice, is misspelled. The customer satisfaction statement at the bottom isn't finished ("...questions concerning this invoice, Contact Name, Phone Number, Email"). This looks like a generic form he pulled off the internet and didn't make his own. Just because a guy can't spell doesn't mean he can't be a fabulous machinist, but as a business owner where the clientele routinely drop over a thousand dollars at a pop, I would expect at least the standard invoice to be professional. The items listed on the invoice give me pause as well... the misspellings, the cam bearings, singular piston? No customized business logo or name as part of the invoice? Just smells... shade tree... to me, and I don't know that I would trust precision measurements and machine work to a business that doesn't take the time to make sure their basic paperwork presents well.

Does the guy/shop have repeat customers? There's a lot of racing in Florida (car, dirt bike, boat, cart...) so a quality shop should have regulars. Find out if this shop has a busy season and if they have regulars. If so, ask to speak with them. Ask about the quality, cost, and timeliness of his work. Find out about mistakes. Research the shop on the internet and see if there's a web presence with testimonies. You're looking to hand over a wad of cash for work that can't be returned and can't be walked back... work that will affect the rest of the build. You're going to pour a lot more cash into the engine in terms of parts. And then there's your own time, blood, sweat. The machine work is the foundation that can make the result a source of pride and joy, or a source of frustration and disappointment.

I would also consider having your engine shipped to a reputable shop elsewhere (assuming you can't find a good local shop). For example, HeadGames Motorworks in New Jersey might be one to check out for your head. They list the 4G63 specifically on their site and have a variety of build packages (https://headgamesmotorworks.com/collections/4g63).

 

[FredRider]

hmmm... My $.02 is that I would be very cautious on this one. Is he the owner, proprietor, bookkeeper, secretary, machinist, and plumber? Is he a one-man band? It's hard to run a solid business full-time if you are the one doing everything.

The invoice isn't professional at all. "Paiment", a permanent part of the invoice, is misspelled. The customer satisfaction statement at the bottom isn't finished ("...questions concerning this invoice, Contact Name, Phone Number, Email"). This looks like a generic form he pulled off the internet and didn't make his own. Just because a guy can't spell doesn't mean he can't be a fabulous machinist, but as a business owner where the clientele routinely drop over a thousand dollars at a pop, I would expect at least the standard invoice to be professional. The items listed on the invoice give me pause as well... the misspellings, the cam bearings, singular piston? No customized business logo or name as part of the invoice? Just smells... shade tree... to me, and I don't know that I would trust precision measurements and machine work to a business that doesn't take the time to make sure their basic paperwork presents well.

Does the guy/shop have repeat customers? There's a lot of racing in Florida (car, dirt bike, boat, cart...) so a quality shop should have regulars. Find out if this shop has a busy season and if they have regulars. If so, ask to speak with them. Ask about the quality, cost, and timeliness of his work. Find out about mistakes. Research the shop on the internet and see if there's a web presence with testimonies. You're looking to hand over a wad of cash for work that can't be returned and can't be walked back... work that will affect the rest of the build. You're going to pour a lot more cash into the engine in terms of parts. And then there's your own time, blood, sweat. The machine work is the foundation that can make the result a source of pride and joy, or a source of frustration and disappointment.

I would also consider having your engine shipped to a reputable shop elsewhere (assuming you can't find a good local shop). For example, HeadGames Motorworks in New Jersey might be one to check out for your head. They list the 4G63 specifically on their site and have a variety of build packages (https://headgamesmotorworks.com/collections/4g63).

Thanks for your message! I reached out to HeadGamesMotorworks and left them an email! I appreciate everyone that is looking out for me! I also reached out to a customer that left a review on the website and he said that when he got his engine machined and he put everything back together he had no issues whatsoever and he's been driving his car for 2 years now with no issues. The customer I was speaking to says that he takes all of his LS engines to that mahine shop.

So maybe this is a special case of "dont judge a book by its cover.'' ? I checked further into other reviews about this shop and it has 5 stars with people saying how "good and fair" his prices are.

 

[FredRider]

Thanks for your message! I reached out to HeadGamesMotorworks and left them an email! I appreciate everyone that is looking out for me! I also reached out to a customer that left a review on the website and he said that when he got his engine machined and he put everything back together he had no issues whatsoever and he's been driving his car for 2 years now with no issues. The customer I was speaking to says that he takes all of his LS engines to that mahine shop.

So maybe this is a special case of "dont judge a book by its cover.'' ? I checked further into other reviews about this shop and it has 5 stars with people saying how "good and fair" his prices are.

Just in case anyone is confused i'm talking about the machine shop I went to in my area.

 

[CKOPOCT]

As long as you make an informed decision and come away with quality work that moves you forward instead of setting you back, brother. Hoping nothing but the best for you.

 

[FredRider]

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So I got the estimate from them and funny enough in the bottom left he said if he made mistakes on the invoice to get back to him about it .

What do you guys think?

 

[We're on Boost]

I just looked at the Headgames "Mitsu 4G-PowerPak1" Price Sheet and I think it explains better what the items are on his estimate, plus it gives you a good idea how much more it would cost if for example your valve seats or guides or valves were beyond re-using. And it's pretty obvious they have done a lot of these and they know what the aftermarket parts are if you need or want to go farther.
Anyway, the two $120 items on your estimate I think are shown in the section called "Disassembly/Cleaning".
The $550 item is described in the section called "Refresh", which includes new valve seals, but really no other new parts.
And that's it. That's what is proposed by the estimate.
Unless you really need more due to bad condition of the parts they would otherwise reuse.
Then it's not just a refresh, it becomes a "Rebuild" which includes new seats.
If you need new guides it becomes a "Rebuild W/Guides"
I would ask him to clarify the prices on the Rebuild and Rebuild W/Guides in case it ended up going that way:
"So if I needed new valve seats it would cost $100 more?"
"Or if I needed new seats and new guides it would cost $325 more?"
Just to verify.

 

[FredRider]

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So I reached out to Real Street Performance about getting a parts build list and how much it would run me and these is what I got. These are parts for my engine from what I told him that I wanted a pretty stock engine with some room for growth down the line.

What do you guys think? Is it overpriced or good for what I am doing.

Thanks!

 

[FredRider]

So I finally got my engine back and he did everything that I asked him to do. The only question I have now is where could I balance my new crankshaft?

A lot of people that I have spoken to have told me it's not necessary but I want to ask you guys what ya'll think?

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