2G Adjusting pedal to bleed clutch master properly? Rate my fork position

[chrisman287]

I’m not sure if I’m overthinkng this but I just finished a clutch/trans job the other day. I was going to bleed the clutch line and adjust the pedal rod for maximum fluid transfer per Jack’s instructions but to bleed properly, should the pedal rod be set the opposite way? Or does it not matter? The master did run dry at one point due to a leaky line

Also, does my fork look like it’s in the right position? I used one headstud washer under the pivot ball even though it’s new. Fork I reused maybe I should’ve bought a new OEM or Competition steel one. Trans shifts smooth as butter in every gear but pops out of 1st. I have a feeling it’s not getting into gear fully while running unless the syncros are just shot. Was considering a 3000gt n/a slave if I can find the right one to see if that helps

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[Anfurnyy]

To ME personally, that doesn't look like enough travel for a proper release. The best way to know if it's releasing right is a clutch drag test.

Find flat ground you won't roll on. Put it in 1st and hold the clutch in and rev to about 6-7k (or as high as your redline) and if the car moves you've got clutch drag and you need investigate further.

Could be the a number of things from the dog teeth on the gear itself being worn, to wear on the 1/2 slider, detent balls on the shift rail

 

[chrisman287]

To ME personally, that doesn't look like enough travel for a proper release.

I was thinking the same. The fork seems to be in a good spot but the slave isn’t moving it over enough to the left. Part of the reason why I wanted to bleed everything and adjust the pedal to see if that helps.

That’s why I was thinking to do a 3000gt n/a slave based on this thread:

How to fix your clutch that won't release.

Over the years I've done a lot of testing with these cars. I've probably spent more money on testing clutches than an average build costs. - Not bragging, just saying I've tried a lot of stuff. One thing that sticks out, is virtually all performance clutches require more throw out bearing...

www.dsmtuners.com

But having a hard time finding the right one… this slave isn’t even that old it was an Aisin brand

 

[Anfurnyy]

I was thinking the same. The fork seems to be in a good spot but the slave isn’t moving it over enough to the left. Part of the reason why I wanted to bleed everything and adjust the pedal to see if that helps.

That’s why I was thinking to do a 3000gt n/a slave based on this thread:

How to fix your clutch that won't release.

Over the years I've done a lot of testing with these cars. I've probably spent more money on testing clutches than an average build costs. - Not bragging, just saying I've tried a lot of stuff. One thing that sticks out, is virtually all performance clutches require more throw out bearing...

www.dsmtuners.com

But having a hard time finding the right one… this slave isn’t even that old it was an Aisin brand

I've always had a bi*** of a time bleeding mine. Even with a vacuum bleeder. I ended up just buying a russels speed bleeder so it's a one man job and stupid easy.

You're positive your clutch master is adjusted properly? It's adjusted so that turning it in by like 1/4 turn blocks the bleeder valve and doesn't let the slave retract and when turning it back in that 1/4 turn opens it back up and you can retract the slave by hand?

Have you also pulled the slave boot to make sure it's not leaking inside?

 

[chrisman287]

You're positive your clutch master is adjusted properly? Have you also pulled the slave boot to make sure it's not leaking inside?

It was adjusted properly for my old set up but for this new set up not yet. I wanted to bleed everything first then adjust again. Should I thread the rod in to open the bleeder valve to help allow any trapped air out?

I can take a look at the slave while I’m down there. It’s two years old I don’t drive the car much but maybe it is shot already.

 

[Anfurnyy]

It was adjusted properly for my old set up but for this new set up not yet. I wanted to bleed everything first then adjust again. Should I thread the rod in to open the bleeder valve to help allow any trapped air out?

I can take a look at the slave while I’m down there. It’s two years old I don’t drive the car much but maybe it is shot already.

Yeah you're gonna need to adjust your master rod properly anytime you replace it. You might just be pushing fluid back into the reservoir instead of to the slave.

Basically the steps are:

Adjust the clutch upper stop as far as you can to gain the most pedal travel possible and adjust the rod out until it blocks off the bleed port in the master. You can test this by going to the slave and trying to push it in by hand. If you cant push the slave in by hand then good. Go back under the dash and turn the slave in / screw it into the clutch assembly like 1/4 turns at a time until you can push the slave in by hand. If you're able to do this without moving the upper stop then lock it down and test it out.

If you run out of master rod before you're able to block the port off then move the upper clutch stop down a little bit as this will move the pedal closer to the firewall and give the rod more travel again and start over. Repeating the steps above.

The whole point of that procedure is to make sure that when you start to push your clutch it, it blocks the bleed port and sends all the compressed fluid from the master directly to the slave and not back into the reservoir. If the bleed port is not blocked off when you start pressing the clutch then you loose fluid pressure to the slave and therefore you lose release at the slave as well.

Look at this gif of the same concept. This gif shows brake at the end but it's the same concept. Instead of squeezing brakes, it pushed the slave rod out. Look at the master cylinder at the top and see how the fluid level raises before the port is blocked as a result of the master is pushed in?

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[chrisman287]

Yeah you're gonna need to adjust your master rod properly anytime you replace it. You might just be pushing fluid back into the reservoir instead of to the slave.

I’m familiar with how to adjust the rod but didn’t realize as is would make me lose pressure at the slave

Just wondering if there’s a “better” way to bleed the master before adjusting

 

[Anfurnyy]

I’m familiar with how to adjust the rod but didn’t realize as is would make me lose pressure at the slave

Just wondering if there’s a “better” way to bleed the master before adjusting

Yeah, if adjusted to far in ( too much play travel before blocking the bleed port) it won't send enough fluid to the slave to disengage completely .

I've seen people bench bleed them but I've never done it. I just fill the res, crack my speed bleeder and pump the clutch for like 5 minutes with a hose off the speed bleeder on the slave. Seems to work extremely well for me. That's what I'd recommend personally.

 

[chrysler kid]

I didn’t watch the video

But if the fork doesn’t have enough travel the clutch won’t disengage. I learned this the hard way using a pivot ball and fork that worked fine in a bad trans in a new good trans. I had to drop the ball to add a shim and a new fork.

Typically after a new master cylinder install you will need to drive the car around for a day or two and then have to adjust pedal catch by feel. The first day the rod may need to be at the longest length but after a few heat cycles you will find that the pedal catches all the way at the top

If you’re popping out of first it could be from slack in the shifter. If you can grab first gear and then pull it further left while in gear, it can mess up the linkage orientation. I was fighting with this issue in a project car and wound up recording the cables on the trans while I sit inside the car and could tell if I pulled it hard left and put it in first the trans would try to wiggle the cable back into neutral. So by feel on the shifter it felt like I was pressing the shifter as hard left and hard upwards, which was causing the issue. Put the shifter straight up then let go

I could also observe at the shifter with the base exposed, if I pulled the shifter hard left and up the neutral cable would also move. If I put it into second and just went straight upwards without pulling left on the shifter the trans wouldn’t have issues

So if you put it in first and can feel slop in the shifter that lets you wiggle the shifter leftwards it could be slop in the shifter mechanism causing the cables to not let it fully seat into first

 

[chrisman287]

Yeah, if adjusted too far in ( too much play travel before blocking the bleed port) it won't send enough fluid to the slave to disengage completely.

Ok so I haven’t bled anything or checked behind the slave boot but I did adjust the clutch pedal and found that the clevis pin was missing the washer and clip so this thing must’ve been a little loose. It’s adjusted perfectly now. I feel like the slave isn’t moving enough. Here’s where the rod is and a video of the slave moving again

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If the fork doesn’t have enough travel the clutch won’t disengage. I learned this the hard way using a pivot ball and fork that worked fine in a bad trans in a new good trans. I had to drop the ball to add a shim and a new fork. If you’re popping out of first it could be from slack in the shifter.

Honestly the shifter seems pretty solid. I just put two new bushings here

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They were shot. I put skateboard bearings on the trans side as well and it does have aluminum shifter base bushings. The shifter itself is stock just shortened height off the top.

Pivot ball is new and spaced with one headstud washer but fork was reused Maybe I should’ve put a new one but it looked fine.

 

[Anfurnyy]

Ok so I haven’t bled anything or checked behind the slave boot but I did adjust the clutch pedal and found that the clevis pin was missing the washer and clip so this thing must’ve been a little loose. It’s adjusted perfectly now. I feel like the slave isn’t moving enough. Here’s where the rod is and a video of the slave moving again

That video looks better. I'd bleed it good again and do a clutch drag test.

Outside of that the only other realistic "bandaid" is running a smaller diameter bore slave like a 1g turbo or similar. I actually run a 2g slave and the stock master because I've got a QM twin disk and it doesn't take much for it to disengage completely.

 

[chrysler kid]

Ok so I haven’t bled anything or checked behind the slave boot but I did adjust the clutch pedal and found that the clevis pin was missing the washer and clip so this thing must’ve been a little loose. It’s adjusted perfectly now. I feel like the slave isn’t moving enough. Here’s where the rod is and a video of the slave moving again

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Honestly the shifter seems pretty solid. I just put two new bushings here

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They were shot as well as the skateboard bearings on the trans side. It does have the aluminum shifter base bushings and the shifter itself is stock just shortened height off the top.

Pivot ball is new and spaced with one headstud washer but fork was reused Maybe I should’ve put a new one but it looked fine.

Yeah those are the bushings I was talking about, there is also a bushing under the pivot arm on the trans too.

If you think the slave isn’t going out far enough to you can put a bb or something in the slave under the rod in the boot to shim the slave without replacing it. But again if the clutch was dragging you would grind into all the gears

I used a slave shim for a while before I became paranoid about over stressing the fork and causing crank walk.

 

[chrisman287]

That video looks better. I'd bleed it good again and do a clutch drag test. Outside of that the only other realistic "bandaid" is running a smaller diameter bore slave like a 1g turbo or similar.

I do have to bleed it still. I’m hoping that helps. I also bought a 3000gt slave with an 11/16 bore. I’ll likely do a write up on installing it as I haven’t found one yet.

If you think the slave isn’t going out far enough to you can put a bb or something in the slave under the rod in the boot to shim the slave without replacing it.

I do have an extended rod somewhere I can use to test but just going to leave it alone for now and wait for the smaller bore slave to come in.

I did attempt to put it into 1st without pressing the clutch while the car was running. The rpms dropped and it didn’t drop in or grind into the gear.

 

[chrysler kid]

Gotcha, the other way I like to gravity bleed it is with a long piece of vacuum tubing over the bleeder on the slave. I think 2 feet is usually the length, anyways I’ll have the tubing on the slave and then loop the tube over the top of the radiator hose, remove the master cap, crack the bleeder on the slave, then press the pedal down about halfway (it may go to the floor automatically but I’ll pull it up a little ) and then top off the master as it drains down. Eventually the tubing line is filled with just fluid and as you keep filling it the lines gravity bleed the air out

You’ll definitely want a drain pan under the trans to catch the fluid

 

[chrisman287]

That video looks better

This is with the 11/16 slave. It still wants to pop out of 1st. I guess the trans is just shot

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