98 GSX Time Trial build

[gsxitement]

Almost done with NJMP prep. NJMP is in 3 weeks. Still got some small things to take care of. But all major stuff is taken care of. Also started working on sealing the front of the car up. Hopefully I'll have it done for the event.

 

[Black95TSIawd]

Looking pretty awesome. We're not too far from each other. Hopefully our paths cross at NJMP or LimeRock one day. Have you ran at NY Safety track?

What times do you typically run on Lightning and Thunder?

 

[gsxitement]

Looking pretty awesome. We're not too far from each other. Hopefully our paths cross at NJMP or LimeRock one day. Have you ran at NY Safety track?

What times do you typically run on Lightning and Thunder?

Thank you!! Haven't run NYST yet. It's on my list. At Lightning, I went 1:17.881. It was my first time there, was having trans issues but left a lot on the table. If I can get down into the 13-12's there, that'd be awesome. Thunderbolt is a bit of a sore subject . I went 1:35.435, but we always have issues with the car. I know there's high 20's in the car. Just have to stop having problems and be able to turn every lap. Lime Rock...that's my home . Went 1:00.316 or something like that. SO close to 59's. Unfortunately won't be back there till next year due to finances and a couple other things.

That'd be great to get another DSM out there!!! August 3-4!!! Come on down!!! We'll be there all weekend!!

 

[gsxitement]

Car is aligned and ready for this weekend at NJMP. Gonna be our last event for the season unfortunately, but we just bought a house and will be focusing on getting that up and going. Hopefully next season we get to do some global time attack events.

 

[gsxitement]

 

[gsxitement]

NJMP rundown and results.

Had a good weekend. Saturday, we had some fuel pressure issues. With the car off and the fuel pump commanded on, fuel pressure was 29psi. So turned that up to 43. Once we got on track, in right hand corners we had fuel cut. Kept going over it, but didn't find anything obvious. Feeling pretty confident the pumps on it's way out. So gonna swap in a 450 over the off-season. Car was still fast. Came home 2nd, with a 1:15.1 which is 2 seconds or so faster than last year. Happy about that. Sunday, the fuel cut issue wasn't as pronounced and there was no rhyme or reason as to when it do it. It would cut on a left hand corner, then the same corner the next lap, it wouldn't. Near the end of the 2nd session, I lost clutch pedal pressure, which I'm pretty sure was just boiling the fluid. By the time I got back to the garage, the pedal was fine. We were going to flush the fluid and put Motul in, but as we were going over the car, we saw the exhaust gasket was blown out AGAIN. I wasn't about the pull the turbo out, so we called it. But we set time fast enough to won on Sunday! Very happy. Now it's time for some life stuff to get taken care of so we're done for the season. Looking forward to the next few months. We're also looking to find more sponsorship help. Hopefully we get it.

 

[TSiAWD666]

How are you... boiling clutch fluid? Are your lines run close to the exhaust or turbo? That's something I've never done in all my years on track.

 

[gsxitement]

How are you... boiling clutch fluid? Are your lines run close to the exhaust or turbo? That's something I've never done in all my years on track.

That was just a guess, cause we didn't investigate once we found the blown out gasket. But no. It's the braided hose from the master and runs along the passenger side of the engine bay. I'm thinking maybe the proximity of the slave to the exhaust. We lost the heat wrap on the exhaust on Saturday. Gonna investigate more in the coming weeks. It was just weird. Pedal went to the floor, wouldn't even pump up. By the time I got off track and back to my paddock spot, pedal felt ok. We'll see what happens. That was just a quick impression without any investigation. But if you haven't dealt with something like that ever, maybe something more sinister is happening. Will find out in the coming weeks.

 

[tstkl]

Hey Man, I just read this whole thread and had a few comments I wanted to add (in addition to saying keep doing what you're doing and congrads on the baby):

On the exhaust studs I would recommend B16 bolts. If you give me the turbo part number you have I could tell you what material your turbine housing is and then you could ask archer fab what material they use. You want the CTE of your fasteners to match the CTE of your parts. Also I believe those nuts you have are supposed to have the tabs bent to prevent them from rotating. See "Tab Washers": https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/keep-it-tight/

On the whole "can a 1g handle" subject I think the best way to explain it to someone asking this question is the 1g suspension is effectively identical to an Evo, particularly when you install an active toe elimination kit. There are other differences but for someone asking this question they probably go over their head. The only reason why the question exists in the first place is because the 2g exists with it's double wishbone front suspension. Yes double wishbone is better than macpherson but that doesn't mean a 1g is undriveable.

On bump steer, what leads you to believe this is an issue? On a properly designed suspension (double wishbone or macpherson) there should be no bump steer at any point in the travel unless intentionally designed in. Lowering the car won't change this. Bump steer kits are only needed when an RCA kit is used, because the RCA kit induces bump steer. RCA kits are a bit of a misnomer by the way. While they do adjust the roll center that's isn't the key to why they improve handling. Macpherson strut cars have very little camber gain under roll. When you lower the car this value is further reduced due to the angle of the control arm relative to the tilt of the strut. The RCA kit restores this camber gain which therefore makes the camber more linear through the suspension travel.

Interesting on the straight cut gears/oil filter housing deal. I know that one of the guys in this thread said the housings are different between 1g 6 bolt and 1g 7 bolt, but has anyone measured the actual gear diameters? The housings would be different given the shape of the oil pan flange is different, so I'm curious to see if the gears are interchangeable. For reference, I run an evo 8 front case with an evo 8 oil filter housing and a mirage stub shaft. I'll probably buy and measure the straight cut gears to see if they are indeed compatible.

On the subject of data acquisition, you should download track addict or a similar app. You can use the accelerometer in your phone to give you an idea for lateral grip. For reference, on a set of 2015 hankook RS3 V2's (the last version they made I believe before the RS4's came out) my 1g pulled 1.15-1.18 G's in autocross. With a set of 2017 RE71R's (they change the compound every year) and the same car/set up I pulled 1.25 G's very consistently. My understanding is that hankook gave up on trying to compete in the autocross world with the RS4 and made it a track day specific tire that takes longer to heat up but lasts longer and handles the heat better.

The 1g/2g dsm use the same shim kits for the rear differential. The carrier preload shims are MB241903. Looking at the USA ASA/CAPs I don't see any other vehicle which uses these shims. Did you measure the preload on the bearings as well? I see you checked the pattern and backlash but the preload is also important for bearing life. The pinion height and pinion preload shims appear to also be fairly unique to the 1g/2g for the USA market with the exception of the Outlander (up to 06 I believe). Luckily for me my road race car is a starion which shares parts with the montero, endeavor, and 3000gt. Not that that helped with sourcing too much. I ended up getting the hardest to find shims from a company in Japan, if you need help let me know and I'll dig up the website again.

MD997607 is a 180 degree ralliart thermostat.

An interesting thing that I noticed when building my engine (1g 7 bolt) was that the 1g 7 bolt pan and the 2g 7 bolt pan were different. Specifically one of them works with the cosworth crank scraper I bought and the other did not. I believe the 2g pan has a "cover" over the pan that has a hole for the pickup tube while the 1g does not (https://dudazps6njn84.cloudfront.net/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/Uh8AAOSwyypc1dfw/$_57.JPG?set_id=8800005007). I imagine the 6 bolt pan is similar in lacking this cover. In any event it appears that your moroso pan does not have this 2g feature although it is hard to tell. I know the oil pump failure was the cause of your issue instead of aeration like you had mentioned, but this is just something additional I wanted to add on the subject. There are other differences between the pans too: https://www.dsmtuners.com/attachments/vymjmnq-jpg.267094/ vs. https://dudazps6njn84.cloudfront.net/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/w4sAAOSwRJNcqnZq/$_57.JPG?set_id=8800005007

keep up the good stuff.

edit: forgot two quick things to add, if you look at most 90's turbo cars you'll see that the oil weight requirement is quite high. This is because the turbo manufactures in that day were more successful in convincing OEMs to use heavy weight oil that offers more protection. Nowadays all the OEMs are chasing 0.0001% fuel economy and want to run the lightest weight oil possible to reduce friction, which also reduces protection. As long as your oil film doesn't collapse it's no issue, but if it does it's a huge issue. I'd recommend 20-50 or 20-40 from a durability standpoint. The oil pump is positive displacement and I can see how pushing thick oil would be hard, but it also has an oil film supporting it's rotation so thicker oil should help there too.

The other thing is ideally you should use hard lines whenever possible for clutch/brake. You want some flexibility because the trans isn't hard mounted to the chassis but any extra flexibility leads to extra pedal travel. Basically if you press the clutch and look at your flexible line you'll see it moves. That movement (straightening most likely to increase the internal volume) is what you want to minimize. You can get hard brake lines at an auto parts store (kragen oreily is my choice) and bend to shape. Or you can build them as you did with your brake lines.

 

[gsxitement]

Hey Man, I just read this whole thread and had a few comments I wanted to add (in addition to saying keep doing what you're doing and congrads on the baby):

On the exhaust studs I would recommend B16 bolts. If you give me the turbo part number you have I could tell you what material your turbine housing is and then you could ask archer fab what material they use. You want the CTE of your fasteners to match the CTE of your parts. Also I believe those nuts you have are supposed to have the tabs bent to prevent them from rotating. See "Tab Washers": https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/keep-it-tight/

On the whole "can a 1g handle" subject I think the best way to explain it to someone asking this question is the 1g suspension is effectively identical to an Evo, particularly when you install an active toe elimination kit. There are other differences but for someone asking this question they probably go over their head. The only reason why the question exists in the first place is because the 2g exists with it's double wishbone front suspension. Yes double wishbone is better than macpherson but that doesn't mean a 1g is undriveable.

On bump steer, what leads you to believe this is an issue? On a properly designed suspension (double wishbone or macpherson) there should be no bump steer at any point in the travel unless intentionally designed in. Lowering the car won't change this. Bump steer kits are only needed when an RCA kit is used, because the RCA kit induces bump steer. RCA kits are a bit of a misnomer by the way. While they do adjust the roll center that's isn't the key to why they improve handling. Macpherson strut cars have very little camber gain under roll. When you lower the car this value is further reduced due to the angle of the control arm relative to the tilt of the strut. The RCA kit restores this camber gain which therefore makes the camber more linear through the suspension travel.

Interesting on the straight cut gears/oil filter housing deal. I know that one of the guys in this thread said the housings are different between 1g 6 bolt and 1g 7 bolt, but has anyone measured the actual gear diameters? The housings would be different given the shape of the oil pan flange is different, so I'm curious to see if the gears are interchangeable. For reference, I run an evo 8 front case with an evo 8 oil filter housing and a mirage stub shaft. I'll probably buy and measure the straight cut gears to see if they are indeed compatible.

On the subject of data acquisition, you should download track addict or a similar app. You can use the accelerometer in your phone to give you an idea for lateral grip. For reference, on a set of 2015 hankook RS3 V2's (the last version they made I believe before the RS4's came out) my 1g pulled 1.15-1.18 G's in autocross. With a set of 2017 RE71R's (they change the compound every year) and the same car/set up I pulled 1.25 G's very consistently. My understanding is that hankook gave up on trying to compete in the autocross world with the RS4 and made it a track day specific tire that takes longer to heat up but lasts longer and handles the heat better.

The 1g/2g dsm use the same shim kits for the rear differential. The carrier preload shims are MB241903. Looking at the USA ASA/CAPs I don't see any other vehicle which uses these shims. Did you measure the preload on the bearings as well? I see you checked the pattern and backlash but the preload is also important for bearing life. The pinion height and pinion preload shims appear to also be fairly unique to the 1g/2g for the USA market with the exception of the Outlander (up to 06 I believe). Luckily for me my road race car is a starion which shares parts with the montero, endeavor, and 3000gt. Not that that helped with sourcing too much. I ended up getting the hardest to find shims from a company in Japan, if you need help let me know and I'll dig up the website again.

MD997607 is a 180 degree ralliart thermostat.

An interesting thing that I noticed when building my engine (1g 7 bolt) was that the 1g 7 bolt pan and the 2g 7 bolt pan were different. Specifically one of them works with the cosworth crank scraper I bought and the other did not. I believe the 2g pan has a "cover" over the pan that has a hole for the pickup tube while the 1g does not (https://dudazps6njn84.cloudfront.net/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/Uh8AAOSwyypc1dfw/$_57.JPG?set_id=8800005007). I imagine the 6 bolt pan is similar in lacking this cover. In any event it appears that your moroso pan does not have this 2g feature although it is hard to tell. I know the oil pump failure was the cause of your issue instead of aeration like you had mentioned, but this is just something additional I wanted to add on the subject. There are other differences between the pans too: https://www.dsmtuners.com/attachments/vymjmnq-jpg.267094/ vs. https://dudazps6njn84.cloudfront.net/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/w4sAAOSwRJNcqnZq/$_57.JPG?set_id=8800005007

keep up the good stuff.

edit: forgot two quick things to add, if you look at most 90's turbo cars you'll see that the oil weight requirement is quite high. This is because the turbo manufactures in that day were more successful in convincing OEMs to use heavy weight oil that offers more protection. Nowadays all the OEMs are chasing 0.0001% fuel economy and want to run the lightest weight oil possible to reduce friction, which also reduces protection. As long as your oil film doesn't collapse it's no issue, but if it does it's a huge issue. I'd recommend 20-50 or 20-40 from a durability standpoint. The oil pump is positive displacement and I can see how pushing thick oil would be hard, but it also has an oil film supporting it's rotation so thicker oil should help there too.

The other thing is ideally you should use hard lines whenever possible for clutch/brake. You want some flexibility because the trans isn't hard mounted to the chassis but any extra flexibility leads to extra pedal travel. Basically if you press the clutch and look at your flexible line you'll see it moves. That movement (straightening most likely to increase the internal volume) is what you want to minimize. You can get hard brake lines at an auto parts store (kragen oreily is my choice) and bend to shape. Or you can build them as you did with your brake lines.

Wow. Such great information! Thank you for the reply!!

We safety wired the the tops of the studs and and the flags have been working great. Still blew out the gasket this weekend. Looking into going VBand just to move away from these issues. The tab washers are different from the flag stage 8's I run. The stage 8's just lean up against something to keep the fasteners from turning.

So.....yes. The 1G is a totally capable car. I think, if I remember correctly about that post, I probably would've started out with a 1G all those years ago had I known I would get to the point I'm at now with the road racing. But I do like the upper and lower control arms at all four corners of the 2G. The bumpsteer issue came up while talking to Bobby about his bumpsteer kit. He can have more input about the geometry and suspension changes from his own testing and design of his kit. Pretty much, from my understanding, is that when you alter the arc of travel of an arm, it's going to pull on what it's attached to. And being that our tie rods are on the backside of the spindle, and through travel, the arm will effectively get shorter, that will induce toe out under compression. Not really desirable in the middle of the corner.

As for the oil pump housing deal, after doing some reading and talking to people, as long as the mirage stub shaft is used, there shouldn't be any side loading of the gears as long as the timing belt tension is set correctly.

I've been meaning to do the Harry's lap timer or similar setup, but my biggest issue is I always forget to turn stuff on . Something I'll work on next season.

The rear end I'll be pulling out of the car and examining. It's had a few good events on it now, so I'm interested in seeing how it looks. I'm definitely interested in the shim kits so I can make any needed adjustments.

I run a gutted tstat at this point and water temp never gets above 210. Even after a 30 minute sessions in 90+ degree ambient temps.

I'm running 10w40 more for it's ability to release the heat it has easier than the thicker 20w50. Brad Penn makes great oil and I haven't had an issue running the thinner oil.

Eventually I'll do more solid lines. It's just been in the car forever and left it in.

Had nothing but good things with the Moroso pan and now with the accusump, I'm confident the oil pressure will be just fine.


Again, thanks again for the reply and the great info!! And thanks for the congrats on the baby! He's a firecracker .

 

[tstkl]

V-bands in my experience tend to leak, but I suppose it would be a constant, never changing leak that shouldn't effect your tune, so at least there's that. B16 studs are difficult to source so I can understand going a different route.

As for the bump steer, now that I think about it you did mention having some control arms that changed the caster. That would result in bump steer as the knuckle has both the toe control and the control arm attachment points. So when you rotate the knuckle the toe point moves down. You want to cancel that. Here's where you want to place it your control arm: https://www.onallcylinders.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/bump-steer-pro-touring1.jpg So basically the ratio of the distance from the inner point to the top control arm versus the inner point to the lower control arm should be the same as the ratio of the distance from the outer point to the top control arm versus the outer point to the lower control arm. With some correction for akerman etc.

The place I got the shim kits from is: https://www.amayama.com/en/genuine-catalogs/mitsubishi. I spent about a year buying from places like amazon, summit, etc only to have them all cancel my order about a month after I placed the order or ship me the wrong parts. I did some searching and it sounds like other people have purchased from them. They are based in Japan and seem legit (I got my one part I ordered).

Im confused as to why you say you haven't had any issues with your oil, didn't you have to rebuild your turbo because the bearings were trashed? Or was that on the thicker oil?

For reference at work we run the Accusmps the same way you have it (manually). For us it's basically just so you can shut things off and try and minimize the damage when things go wrong. You don't want it to last forever in case of a fire it may be feeding.

Keep up the good work, reading about how you have to get all this work done working around snow and stuff might actually guilt me into working on my car for once. It gets down to the low 50's sometimes in southern california though...

 

[BLACK'98DSM]

It gets down to the low 50's sometimes in southern california though...

In winter or summer?

 

[gsxitement]

The turbo having to get rebuilt stemmed from the CHRA bolts coming loose and the turbine wheel hitting the housing. Apparently, according to Boostlab, that damaged in the inside of the CHRA and we converted it from ball bearing to journal bearing, and ever since then, it's been nothing but headaches. I have an inline filter for the turbo, been trying to make sure it's kept clean and the turbo happy, but we always have issues with the turbo.

As far as bumpsteer is concerned, I have Bobby's kit going in the car this off-season. Through his testing, he found out a lot about how the 2G suspension functions. He spent a lot of time working on this kit, and his upper control arms and a bunch of his other parts for the 2G. I'm sure he can chime in with more info than I can.

Yeah absolutely. The accusump is just there for those momentary losses in pressure or like you said, to help salvage parts if there's some catastrophic failure.

Lol!!! Yeah. I'm over the snow and cold, but not much I can do about it. Just bought a house that has a better garage than I've had forever, so looking forward to that. Appreciate the info and input. Never too much information or data!!

 

[gsxitement]

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/2g-auto-time-attack-race-build.494941/page-7


Post 165 is where he starts getting into measurements and other things. His whole build is a great read.

 

[gsxitement]

And yeah!!! Get to work!!! 50 degrees??? If we get a 50 degree day in winter, we're in tshirts, bbqing, drinking beers, playing cornhole, working on the cars....come on.

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

Hey Man, I just read this whole thread and had a few comments I wanted to add (in addition to saying keep doing what you're doing and congrads on the baby):



On the whole "can a 1g handle" subject I think the best way to explain it to someone asking this question is the 1g suspension is effectively identical to an Evo, particularly when you install an active toe elimination kit. There are other differences but for someone asking this question they probably go over their head. The only reason why the question exists in the first place is because the 2g exists with it's double wishbone front suspension. Yes double wishbone is better than macpherson but that doesn't mean a 1g is undriveable.

On bump steer, what leads you to believe this is an issue? On a properly designed suspension (double wishbone or macpherson) there should be no bump steer at any point in the travel unless intentionally designed in. Lowering the car won't change this. Bump steer kits are only needed when an RCA kit is used, because the RCA kit induces bump steer. RCA kits are a bit of a misnomer by the way. While they do adjust the roll center that's isn't the key to why they improve handling. Macpherson strut cars have very little camber gain under roll. When you lower the car this value is further reduced due to the angle of the control arm relative to the tilt of the strut. The RCA kit restores this camber gain which therefore makes the camber more linear through the suspension travel.

Jesse messaged me and said i should jump in on this since its my BS kit he is using.

While your logic is correct the theory is wrong. Here is why,

When they design the suspension they do infact design it as such to have little or as little as possible in the system but as soon as 1 thing alters no matter what it is then it goes outside that tolerance! All oem parts like suspension arms will be better off then aftermarket of course but i logged even on oem parts it was throwing the toe out a good amount.

Now the 2G does not have double wishbone suspension so lets clear that up, its has wishbone/multilink front and rear! So this again plays a different role. If it was a true double wishbone it would be much more controled through its motion range if the inner mou ting points never changed only lowering the car would effect it does to steering rack height vs arm angle.

Due to the fact we have a compression arm or a trailing arm its a pivot motion and this is factory form/height is calculated to push out and forwards creating caster and camber and this will work with the oem steering setup in its range. Once lowered this compression arm now is not sitting angled down as it needs to be so the arm will push out a bit but also back so loosing caster so this is where bumpsteer is introduced in oem setups on our 2G chassis. I did a few tests when developing the kit and i would have to go back to see my results on here as i dont remember all these figures in my head but its alot and i believe it was somewhere near 1.2mm out and i managed to get it down to something like 0.2mm which was using a motion of 1.5" each way compression and rebound,

Now everyone is using aftermarket arms its more vital then ever to have a way to dial this out

 

[gsxitement]

Like I said.....he has better info than I

 

[gsxitement]

Big day today. Old girl moved into her new home at the house. Can't wait to start bringing all my shop stuff here.

 

[tstkl]

Jesse messaged me and said i should jump in on this since its my BS kit he is using.

While your logic is correct the theory is wrong. Here is why,

When they design the suspension they do infact design it as such to have little or as little as possible in the system but as soon as 1 thing alters no matter what it is then it goes outside that tolerance! All oem parts like suspension arms will be better off then aftermarket of course but i logged even on oem parts it was throwing the toe out a good amount.

Now the 2G does not have double wishbone suspension so lets clear that up, its has wishbone/multilink front and rear! So this again plays a different role. If it was a true double wishbone it would be much more controled through its motion range if the inner mou ting points never changed only lowering the car would effect it does to steering rack height vs arm angle.

Due to the fact we have a compression arm or a trailing arm its a pivot motion and this is factory form/height is calculated to push out and forwards creating caster and camber and this will work with the oem steering setup in its range. Once lowered this compression arm now is not sitting angled down as it needs to be so the arm will push out a bit but also back so loosing caster so this is where bumpsteer is introduced in oem setups on our 2G chassis. I did a few tests when developing the kit and i would have to go back to see my results on here as i dont remember all these figures in my head but its alot and i believe it was somewhere near 1.2mm out and i managed to get it down to something like 0.2mm which was using a motion of 1.5" each way compression and rebound,

Now everyone is using aftermarket arms its more vital then ever to have a way to dial this out

I don't want to muck up this thread as I think it's more appropriate to have this discussion in your other thread I responded to the other day so I will try to keep this short, but I will say I'm rather confused as to how a suspension could be designed for no change in toe over it's full range of motion but then also not be? Lowering your car is just like always having your suspension in bump. Now I am aware that any suspension will be optimized for the factory ride height but without going into too much detail a properly designed suspension will not have bump steer induced from lowering the vehicle. If you did in fact measure bump steer on the oem suspension arms then that means the car has bump steer from the factory and even at stock ride height a bump steer kit would help. Especially if you are using +/- 1.5" of travel, you're most likely covering the travel range for the factory ride height. Basically the bump steer is not caused by lowering the car. Either it was there always or it is the result of some other change made.

Also the multi link suspension system on a 2g is a type of double wishbone suspension, regardless of where the virtual pivot lies.

 

[gsxitement]

I don't want to muck up this thread as I think it's more appropriate to have this discussion in your other thread I responded to the other day so I will try to keep this short, but I will say I'm rather confused as to how a suspension could be designed for no change in toe over it's full range of motion but then also not be? Lowering your car is just like always having your suspension in bump. Now I am aware that any suspension will be optimized for the factory ride height but without going into too much detail a properly designed suspension will not have bump steer induced from lowering the vehicle. If you did in fact measure bump steer on the oem suspension arms then that means the car has bump steer from the factory and even at stock ride height a bump steer kit would help. Especially if you are using +/- 1.5" of travel, you're most likely covering the travel range for the factory ride height. Basically the bump steer is not caused by lowering the car. Either it was there always or it is the result of some other change made.

Also the multi link suspension system on a 2g is a type of double wishbone suspension, regardless of where the virtual pivot lies.

I know it's a different suspension setup, but my buddy who races a fox body mustang was told by an engineer at Maximum Motorsports that he shouldn't even be taking his car on track without setting up the bumpsteer in his car. All I'm saying is, when you use a bumpsteer gauge on these cars, and run it through travel, there's enough toe induced that for a track only car, it should be corrected.

 

[gsxitement]

I don't want to muck up this thread as I think it's more appropriate to have this discussion in your other thread I responded to the other day so I will try to keep this short, but I will say I'm rather confused as to how a suspension could be designed for no change in toe over it's full range of motion but then also not be? Lowering your car is just like always having your suspension in bump. Now I am aware that any suspension will be optimized for the factory ride height but without going into too much detail a properly designed suspension will not have bump steer induced from lowering the vehicle. If you did in fact measure bump steer on the oem suspension arms then that means the car has bump steer from the factory and even at stock ride height a bump steer kit would help. Especially if you are using +/- 1.5" of travel, you're most likely covering the travel range for the factory ride height. Basically the bump steer is not caused by lowering the car. Either it was there always or it is the result of some other change made.

Also the multi link suspension system on a 2g is a type of double wishbone suspension, regardless of where the virtual pivot lies.

Also kinda confused as to why this is a thing since someone has done the testing and has the numbers and data that show there's bump steer in the suspension. Bobby has done the testing, has the data, and designed a part to counteract the data he extracted. I know you say that cars aren't designed to have bumper steer in them. But the data says otherwise, and I'm more inclined to go with actual testing than someone who just disagrees with the data even though they have done no testing themselves. And just sayin, if we want to have a legitimate convo on this, let's move it off my build thread and to somewhere where it'll be better utilized by other people.

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

I don't want to muck up this thread as I think it's more appropriate to have this discussion in your other thread I responded to the other day so I will try to keep this short, but I will say I'm rather confused as to how a suspension could be designed for no change in toe over it's full range of motion but then also not be? Lowering your car is just like always having your suspension in bump. Now I am aware that any suspension will be optimized for the factory ride height but without going into too much detail a properly designed suspension will not have bump steer induced from lowering the vehicle. If you did in fact measure bump steer on the oem suspension arms then that means the car has bump steer from the factory and even at stock ride height a bump steer kit would help. Especially if you are using +/- 1.5" of travel, you're most likely covering the travel range for the factory ride height. Basically the bump steer is not caused by lowering the car. Either it was there always or it is the result of some other change made.

Also the multi link suspension system on a 2g is a type of double wishbone suspension, regardless of where the virtual pivot lies.

I have replyed to your post on my thread and if you wish to discuss then go there.

I will be happy to walk you through why it creates BS as i feel as if you are missing the overall picture of why and how,

ADDEd, anyone reading and wants to read more on this convo etc here is my thread https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/tubular-adjustable-suspension-parts-for-the-entire-chassis.493893/

 

[gsxitement]

Had to go to the house yesterday, so I took the time and power washed the trailer, and got everything situated as far as getting the car AND trailer in the garage. Gonna be tight for space as far as work benches and equipment go, but I'll figure it out. Also had an impromptu photo shoot on the lawn while I moved things around .

 

[chinola69]

And yeah!!! Get to work!!! 50 degrees??? If we get a 50 degree day in winter, we're in tshirts, bbqing, drinking beers, playing cornhole, working on the cars....come on.

Lol so true

 

[gsxitement]

Already starting with 2020 season prep. Not gonna go back out this season since with the house and everything going on, I just don't have the time or funding to go out. But, that doesn't mean I get to sit back and do nothing. Got the wheels off, started going over everything. I plan on running two Global Time Attack events next year, namely Road Atlanta and NJMP. Most of the plans I have for the car are just reliability and handling based. Gotta make sure I can turn every lap I can. I won't be hugely competitive in GTA yet, cause those folks are fast as hell. But there's a tremendous amount of learning I can do just being around those fast folks. I'd rather be slowest of the fast guys than fastest of the slow guys. Also, where the car is sitting now, I should have enough room to have a decent bench behind the car. Eventually, we plan on having a shed in the backyard for house stuff, so I'll make part of that a shop as well. Also have a wired wear mark on all four of the federals. More prominent on the fronts, but definitely on all four. Someone mentioned heat in the tire, but I'll see what Phil's Tire Service says.