93 GS Won't start. Ignition?

[Andrew7DG]

Just to tell you about the car, it is a 93 GS manual transmission with very little mods and without turbo so it is pretty reliable. The story that goes with it now

I am teaching my best friends girlfriend how to drive a manual transmission ( Info on girlfriend crashed 4 cars in a year and a half and the boyfriend thought it was a geneous idea to go out, buy a brand new civic 06 with a manual transmission so she would pay better attention to the car(why i ever let her drive MY car i don't know but she is NEVER touching it again) and she was starting to learn, took her on to the road and she was doing fine untill she turned on an off ramp where she kind of went into a panic because the car wasn't in gear and she pressed on the gas sending the engine passed the 7K mark and it was a little after that that the car quit. We pulled over on the shoulder and it would turn over but there wasn't even a sputter like it wasn't even firing. Towed the car back to the apartment and checked to see if it was the timing belt (I am always scared that it will break on me) but it was fine. Because i was cold (minnesota) i put everything into the car. I believe it is the ignition because it seems it isn't getting any spark. I tried it again today JUST to see if the car was flooded but i got the same results.

Before I start ripping into the ignition system i was wondering if anyone can give me other advice or other things I should check for or certain things i should look for.

Does it sound like Ignition?

Would reving it to 7K do that to the ignition while the car isn't in gear?

 

[Galaxy]

She should have her license revoked permanently before she kills someone or herself.

I have a 92 GS that won't start and sounds about the way you describe it...my ECU is shot.

 

[LA97GST]

Can be a number of things. Doesn't mean your ecu is shot. Deff. the ignition system if it not getting a spark. Test your coil pack. Look at plugs.

 

[ddavisaf]

Your car needs three things to start.
Spark- Test the coil pack's primary and secondary coils. Check the spark plugs for fouling. Test the plug wires.
Testing the Coil Pack.
Fuel- Check fuel rail for fuel from your fuel pump after cranking the car. If fuel is present, pull a spark plug and check for fuel on the plug tip.
Compression- This one is self explanitory. Run a compression test.

If all three of these things check out good then we'll go from there, but for now test all three and find out if one of these are your problem.

Edit: Check all your fuses first...

 

[Andrew7DG]

Ok i checked the coil pack and checked all the fuses and everything just seems to be fine. I took the coil pack to 4 different places to get it tested and none of them knew how to test it (I am surprised they work at an autoparts store). So i did the check myself and everything is reading ok for the coil pack and all the wires are fine. So back to the basics. I pulled the plugs and they have a little white residue on them (is that bad?). I am going to put everything back together and turn the motor over to see if the car is getting fuel.
To check that all i need to do is to see if the spark plugs are wet right?
Anything else i can check?
How can i tell if the ECU is working or not?

So just to add to the story the girlfriend thinks that it wasn't her fault and the car was old and old cars just break down.

 

[Old Mitsu Tech]

You can also have someone pattern your CAS to see if it's functioning. They do have a relatively high failure rate. I have an extra on hand for mine. Here's a quote from Uber Wiseman Steve. I suggest printing this out for any future references. As you may have figured out, I have this saved in a quick reference area. Great Stuff.

The 1G DSM has two main circuits for the engine. The MPI circuit and the Ignition circuit.

The ECU is connected to both but powered from the MPI circuit.

Power for the MPI circuit comes from the MPI fusable link on the positive battery terminal to pin 10 on the MPI relay and should be present all the time even with the car off. Power for the Fuel Pump and the rest of the ignition circuit comes from the Ignition fusable link on the positive battery terminal and for the fuel pump winds up on pin 3 on the MPI relay.

The MPI relay has two actual relays inside, one for the MPI power and one for the fuel pump power. The fuel pump relay has two trigger inputs, the MPI relay one. Pin 10 in the input for the MPI power and pin 3 is the input for the FP power. When one of the control lines to either relay is activated the relay switches the power from the input to the outpin pin(s)

The ECU receives backup power on pin 103 from fuse 11 (room) in the drivers footwell fusebox. This is used to maintain the RAM in the ECU's CPU and allow the ECU to power itself up. Like MPI relay pin 10 the backup power on ECU pin 103 should to present all the time even with the car off.

The ECU sits dormant in a powered down state waiting to see pin 110 (IG1 from ignition switch) go high (to battery voltage). When pin 110 goes high the ECU pulls its pin 63 (MPI relay pin 8) low (to ground). This causes the the relay to activate and switches the MPI power from MPI pin 10 to MPI pins 4 and 5 providing power to the ECU on pins 102 and 107 along with various sensors, solenoids, injectors, ISC, and O2 Heater in the engine bay.

Shortly after battery voltage shows up on ECU pins 102 and 107 the reset circuit in the ECU wakes the ECU up and if it boots up you'll get a heartbeat on ECU pin 1, the CEL will come on for about 5 seconds, the boost gauge will display 0 (Stock ECU software on turbo cars) and the ISC on the throttle body will move in and out to rehome.

The next interesting condition is when ECU pin 108 (indirectly START from the ignition switch) goes high (to battery voltage).

The START signal also goes to the Fuel side of the MPI relay to power up the fuel pump, and to the ECU causing the ECU to do the things it needs to do the start the engine. Once the engine is running the ECU pulls it's pin 56 (MPI relay pin 8) to ground and continues to hold it low until you turn the car off or the engine stops running, to keep the fuel pump powered after you release the ignition.

The first thing you should do if your ECU doesn't power up (CEL on for about 5 seconds, the boost gauge displays 0) is check the two fusable links and the room fuse. Measure the fuses for continuity (0 ohms resistance) rather than look at them. Then check for battery voltage at the ECU and MPI relay pins. Remember that the ECU doesn't get power on pins 102 and 107 until the MPI relay is activated by turning the ignition key to RUN or START. If the MPI relay doesn't activate try grounding its pin 8 and check that power shows up on its pins 4 and 5. If that works then either the ECU isn't seeing the IG1 signal or the ECU is damaged.

If power is present on ECU pins 102 and 107, the ECU grounds are good and the ECU doesn't power up it's damaged.

 

[Andrew7DG]

Ok so i am retesting the coil pack the primary coil has a reading of 1.03 which it should read between .77-.95 according to the testing sheet. and the secondaries have a reading of 12.7ish which is in the range of 10.3-13.9

So the primary has more resistance then it should. Does this mean it is shot (or should be shot)? Is it off enough to make the car not start at all?

 

[1g4g63pwr]

Just to tell you about the car, it is a 93 GS manual transmission with very little mods and without turbo so it is pretty reliable. The story that goes with it now

I am teaching my best friends girlfriend how to drive a manual transmission ( Info on girlfriend crashed 4 cars in a year and a half and the boyfriend thought it was a geneous idea to go out, buy a brand new civic 06 with a manual transmission so she would pay better attention to the car(why i ever let her drive MY car i don't know but she is NEVER touching it again) and she was starting to learn, took her on to the road and she was doing fine untill she turned on an off ramp where she kind of went into a panic because the car wasn't in gear and she pressed on the gas sending the engine passed the 7K mark and it was a little after that that the car quit. We pulled over on the shoulder and it would turn over but there wasn't even a sputter like it wasn't even firing. Towed the car back to the apartment and checked to see if it was the timing belt (I am always scared that it will break on me) but it was fine. Because i was cold (minnesota) i put everything into the car. I believe it is the ignition because it seems it isn't getting any spark. I tried it again today JUST to see if the car was flooded but i got the same results.

Before I start ripping into the ignition system i was wondering if anyone can give me other advice or other things I should check for or certain things i should look for.

Does it sound like Ignition?

Would reving it to 7K do that to the ignition while the car isn't in gear?

was the girl hot??

 

[Andrew7DG]

Ok Just to keep this up to date and tell everyone whats wrong. I found the problem. When you start the car all the pullies turn over and I think the bock is cranking over as well. However the top timing belt isn't moving. VERY VERY BAD!!!! very depressing as well. So now what do i do? I believe when something like that happens you need a new engine. I don't know if the car is worth it and if i do i think it is time to put a turbo engine in it. but i really don't know what to do. I have mixed emotions rignt now of depressed and anger knowing i might have to put my beloved eclipse down

Hot? a chick is not worth a car.

 

[wolf20043]

Sounds like you chewed all the teeth of the timing belt at the crank. Time for new valves.
Mike

 

[Andrew7DG]

Just out of curiosity what is the most likely reason for that happening? I heard when belts get old they strech and the first sign of it is when it hops on to another gear tooth on the cam and the engine just runs funny. However I haven't ever heard of grinding out teeth on a belt before. The belt on the car was replaced not that long ago, or maybe so I thought, pretty sure it was though.