90 Talon RPM problems

[coolrider2112]

Ok im not a straight newbie on DSM's but this is my 3rd one, im really getting frustrated because for one my boost is not all the way there, i re-tightened every tube, im pretty sure there is no boost leak, and when I get on it driving or not getting on it my RPM goes up really slow, I've did everything from changing spark plugs, spark plug wires, fuel filter (in case of clog), the firing order is correct (4-1-2-3) bov is working, all exhaust manifold bolts are tightened down, replaced valve cover gasket, changed oil, put in new coolant, MAF sensor is plugged in (the cone is a little lose) but still that wouldnt do something like this cus I tested that on my last DSM. The last things I can think of are the big things like maybe clogged cat which i highly doubt, or the timing is off which seems like when dsm's have their timing off wouldnt it ruin the motor since its a interference motor, and maybe the cam angle sensor know you can adjust it up and down but could it be off somehow to do this? please help me someone, im tired of guessing.

 

[g4ebguy90]

Do you have a boost gauge? what does it do?

As for the timing, if it's just off a tooth or possibly 2 it will still run and start, may run horrible and die sometimes at idle, but it will run. As far as interference, I don't know how many teeth that these engines can skip on a belt before they hit valves.

You can check the timing with a timing light, you point it at the diagram that is on your timing belts cover near the crank spocket.

 

[miguelmcv]

Sounds like Timing issue.

Not only because you tight all the clamps really good means that there is no leak.

I have heavy duty T-bolt clamps, but if there is not set up right, It will leak no matter how tight it is.

Do a Real Boost Leak Test, and check your timing.

 

[coolrider2112]

I dont have a timing light and pretty much i dont have the most money right now for a timing light, but cant I just crank it by hand and line up the sprockets and see if the bottom matches up to? Is there a way to just adjust the Cam angle sensor? I just bought the car and it only has 89,000 miles on it, just they didnt keep up maintenance which I just did everything, but yah the throttle was all messed up and I had to adjust it and move the cam angle sensor. Engine sounds really good actually and there no idle surging like my other dsm's had during cold start up. But yah i've done timing myself before and was very careful ### i know if its off I can potentially ruin my motor, the shops wanna charge 600 bucks to do time and replace all the pulleys in there to. But If you guys definately think its the timing then I can just buy a new timing belt and start on it this weekend. oh and about the boost gauge the people before me have an after market one thats hooked up looks crappy, I actually shoulda blocked off the vaccum line on it in case it had a leak, its connected to the throttle body on top and the other vaccumm port is blocked up, but could that be a major boost leak just out of the vacumm line? The stock boost gauge reads like 10 PSI and aftermarket one reads like between 2-4 it shows barely anything, I can feel the boost a little its just when I get to RPM it just seems like the boost slows down a little and my RPM goes really slow when it gets to about 3500 RPM and Im scared to keep going because I dont wanna blow my motor, I feel like it shoulda been redlining already

 

[1990AWD]

A boost leak tester can be made for $20 and a timing light is $50. Both well worth the investment. What does your aftermarket boost gauge show for vacuum at an idle?

What plugs are you using? Use NGK copper plugs (BPR6ES gapped at .028").

Also, try a compression test just to rule that out; you must know someone that has one.

 

[coolrider2112]

Ok so is it most likely going to be the timing and how hard is it to remove the balance shaft ?

 

[1990AWD]

The balance shaft is a timing belt job plus a few minutes more. If you've never done a timing belt before, it will be quite a bit of work and easier if you have a DSM friend to help.

 

[coolrider2112]

Hey I got NGK plugs sadly platinums but dont they come gapped alrdy?

 

[1990AWD]

They might not be gapped to the proper spec as the same plugs can be used in many other applications.

 

[coolrider2112]

Hey could it possibly be the throttle position sensor thats making my rpms go up slow? Even in neutral my rpm goes up slowly to about 4k and im scared to keep going up because it should be redlining already. Its just so slow someone ### help

 

[South Dakota]

I think that Autozone will let you use a timing light in their parking lot. If they aren't busy when you're there will do most of the work for you, and its free. How does your car idle?

Also do you have a friend with another 1G that you could swap their MAS with to rule that out?

 

[coolrider2112]

yah I will check that out about the timing light and stuff, but how exactly do you use a timing light? I heard something about shining the light at the bottom by the timing marks and all that, but what exactly am I going to be looking for, does the timing light do something that tells me the timing is off or something? Oh and about switching the MAF sadly I just moved in this state about 6 months ago and dont really know anyone with a DSM, I thought it would be the MAF ### I know when the MAF is unplugged you cant really go anywhere, I tested the MAF and when unplugged the car runs crappy but when plugged in the car is running fine and idles back down. One thing I did notice was the K & N cone filter the person has on is pretty dirty and since the can does not cover the intake anymore you know how bad those clamps are that hold the cone filter on, there is basically only 1 clamp that holds that filter on, but still would that really make the RPM rise slowly at higher RPM because of more airbeing pushed out?

Oh any by the way the car idles fine, theres no surging at all.

 

[Jon91TSi]

I dont have a timing light and pretty much i dont have the most money right now for a timing light, but cant I just crank it by hand and line up the sprockets and see if the bottom matches up to? Is there a way to just adjust the Cam angle sensor? I just bought the car and it only has 89,000 miles on it, just they didnt keep up maintenance which I just did everything, but yah the throttle was all messed up and I had to adjust it and move the cam angle sensor. Engine sounds really good actually and there no idle surging like my other dsm's had during cold start up. But yah i've done timing myself before and was very careful ### i know if its off I can potentially ruin my motor, the shops wanna charge 600 bucks to do time and replace all the pulleys in there to. But If you guys definately think its the timing then I can just buy a new timing belt and start on it this weekend. oh and about the boost gauge the people before me have an after market one thats hooked up looks crappy, I actually shoulda blocked off the vaccum line on it in case it had a leak, its connected to the throttle body on top and the other vaccumm port is blocked up, but could that be a major boost leak just out of the vacumm line? The stock boost gauge reads like 10 PSI and aftermarket one reads like between 2-4 it shows barely anything, I can feel the boost a little its just when I get to RPM it just seems like the boost slows down a little and my RPM goes really slow when it gets to about 3500 RPM and Im scared to keep going because I dont wanna blow my motor, I feel like it shoulda been redlining already

So you don't have a timing light, but moved the cam angle sensor???? Looks like you solved your own problem.

Hey I got NGK plugs sadly platinums but dont they come gapped alrdy?

Platinum plugs???? Really??

 

[coolrider2112]

First off i changed the plugs to irodium plugs and moving cam angle sensor up and down doesnt throw off timing

 

[obsidian]

Moving that cam angle sensor will cause all kinds of craziness to happen. That is probably your issue.

A clogged cat can very easily cause a bogged down engine so that is another option to look at.

 

[JuGs]

moving cam angle sensor up and down doesnt throw off timing

Where did you hear that or who told you that?

 

[1990AWD]

First off i changed the plugs to irodium plugs and moving cam angle sensor up and down doesnt throw off timing

Why change plugs and still not use the copper plugs that was recommended?

And moving the CAS is how you set the base timing.

 

[coolrider2112]

So you saying that basically once you put a timing belt on and the cam angle sensor in you cant ever move the cam angle sensor? I didnt pull it out, do I have to redue to whole timing belt and all that now because of turning the came angle sensor?

 

[1990AWD]

Now I'm not even sure you know what the CAS is. It's the sensor on the transmission end of the intake cam. Turning it clockwise and counter-clockwise retards and advances the timing. The timing belt has nothing to do with it.

To set the base timing, have the engine idling with all accessories off, ground the ECU timing bypass pin (connector by the batter, look it up in a Haynes manual or something as I'm on my phone and can't get a picture for you), shine the timing light at the crank pulley, and turn the CAS until the line is a 5 degrees according to the timing belt cover.

This gives the ECU the baseline for telling the coils when to spark the spark plugs.

 

[Jon91TSi]

First off i changed the plugs to irodium plugs and moving cam angle sensor up and down doesnt throw off timing

Yes sir, it does.

 

[manifestmessiah]

Have you tested the power transistor? Mine had a bad connection once upon a time ago and I could put the pedal to the floor and the rpms would go up extremely slow. I'm not sure how far off the CAS would have to be to cause this sort of problem, but it's possible that could be your issue as well. You can get the CAS pretty close to correct by setting your engine to TDC and setting the CAS to TDC to see if it helps at all, but you will need a timing light to get it spot on. Hope this helps and good luck.

 

[coolrider2112]

Transister seems ok. Rpm bogs at about 5000 it just stops there and then like bumps down a little and thats full throttle. It just wont go past that... Any other solutions?

 

[Jon91TSi]

Did you bother checking your timing with a timing light? Severely advanced or retarded timing will cause the problems you mentioned, this can be caused by adjusting the CAS without properly grounding the pin on the firewall either with a jumper or through ecmlink, and also without a timing light to verify correct base timing. We can't help those who can't help themselves. This would be the most obvious place to start, and it seems as though it's being overlooked.

 

[coolrider2112]

Ok, I am going to start that process you guys are stating about using the timing light and things, where exactly is that bypass pin located? I heard by the battery, and you guys said ground it? I just really want to figure this out and I will listen to you guys. I just need help finding the pin and what to ground that pin with and then im good to go. Thank you

 

[Jon91TSi]

Ok, I am going to start that process you guys are stating about using the timing light and things, where exactly is that bypass pin located? I heard by the battery, and you guys said ground it? I just really want to figure this out and I will listen to you guys. I just need help finding the pin and what to ground that pin with and then im good to go. Thank you

The vfaq has all the answers you'll need to get the job done.