7 bolt block modifications

[skizzo81]

OK i am rebuilding my 7 bolt engine with 150,000 miles. what mods should be done to the block to have it be the best it can be? i have wiseco forge alum pistons and eagle forged rods with acl bearings and i am using the stock crank.

please any tips would be awesome. thx

 

[dsmornothing]

OK i am rebuilding my 7 bolt engine with 150,000 miles. what mods should be done to the block to have it be the best it can be? i have wiseco forge alum pistons and eagle forged rods with acl bearings and i am using the stock crank.

please any tips would be awesome. thx

To have it the best it can be? First off ditch wiseco and eagle.... Go with manley manley. And what are your power goals?

 

[Black'95]

Don't forget to yank those balance shafts out and either weld the oil holes shut or spin the balance shaft bearings 180*.

Link to a balance shaft eliminator kit: EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts

 

[genegoesfast]

Don't forget to yank those balance shafts out and either weld the oil holes shut or spin the balance shaft bearings 180*.

Link to a balance shaft eliminator kit: EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts

Agree with this^ You might also so some research on the oil squirters.

 

[Absit]

Unlike most domestic engines, our block and head came pretty much right from the factory, there's not a lot that needs to be done. I'd pull the balance shafts for insurance and that's it.

 

[daren_p]

To have it the best it can be? First off ditch wiseco and eagle.... Go with manley manley. And what are your power goals?

Based on what? I'm sure there are more guys making big power on Eagle/Wiseco vs Manley/Manley.


So what are the power goals & whats the budget? For my 7 bolt, I'm doing Wiseco HD1400, Eagle rods, ACL Race, ARP mains, main dowel kit, BS removed, oil squirters removed. L19 head studs, oringed block.

 

[Black'95]

Yea, I'm not sure what the problem is with Eagle/Wiseco, but my 6 bolt build will be the Eagle stroker kit with Arias pistons.

Haha, unless the "Manley/Manley" comment was 'pun intended'!

 

[skizzo81]

I am just going to max a tune with 91 octane and around 20 psi. other mods are 66cc injectors, evo 3 manifold and o2 housing, full 3" exhaust no cat. fmic, td05 turbo. i am hoping for 300 at the wheels. but i dont have any idea.

what do u think i will make.

 

[nitrouskris]

i would NOT go with eagle there has been alot of probelms with there stuff in the last 3 years and i am a eagle dealer. for the money i would go with the manley rods. wiseco are a good piston but arias are a better piston. hope this helps

 

[Black'95]

i would NOT go with eagle there has been alot of probelms with there stuff in the last 3 years and i am a eagle dealer. for the money i would go with the manley rods. wiseco are a good piston but arias are a better piston. hope this helps

Uh oh! Since you've obviously seen this first hand, what problems are you talking about with Eagle stuff? Lol I already bought my stroker kit, so it's too late for me, but it's still good to know. Thanks man!

 

[daren_p]

I am just going to max a tune with 91 octane and around 20 psi. other mods are 66cc injectors, evo 3 manifold and o2 housing, full 3" exhaust no cat. fmic, td05 turbo. i am hoping for 300 at the wheels. but i dont have any idea.

what do u think i will make.

What do you think I'll make is bench racing & not allowed here.

For your goals, the stock motor is fine. So basically any "aftermarket performance" product would be more then enough.

 

[nitrouskris]

Uh oh! Since you've obviously seen this first hand, what problems are you talking about with Eagle stuff? Lol I already bought my stroker kit, so it's too late for me, but it's still good to know. Thanks man!

how long ago did you buy it ?

1. i had one bad crank "6bolt" you couldnt tell by looking at it but it had a bent in it

2. the arp bolts were over torque and would spin freely from eagle

3. i only had a probelm with there 4g63 stuff

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

I have been building and using Eagle parts for years. The fact that they would sent a "bent" crankshaft is completely insulting to their product inspection division. I have had no problems with Eagle parts and have pushed and seen them pushed WELL beyond the 600hp they claim they can handle. Any problem I have encountered, bent rods or eating up a bearing was simply a builder/tuner error. I think if there was a problem with the 4G63 line, they would be well away of it and have corrected the problem. For the OP's build, what you have is just fine. Being you are in Phoenix, I would recommend ditching the injectors for a set of 1000cc of more and making the switch to E85. There are TONS of people down here running it. I would recommend going with a stock 98-99 ECU too for tuning to save on cost there as well. A EVO316G with a set of 1050cc injectors and E85 will make right around 375 easy. And be a great everyday car.

 

[nitrouskris]

I have been building and using Eagle parts for years. The fact that they would sent a "bent" crankshaft is completely insulting to their product inspection division. I have had no problems with Eagle parts and have pushed and seen them pushed WELL beyond the 600hp they claim they can handle. Any problem I have encountered, bent rods or eating up a bearing was simply a builder/tuner error. I think if there was a problem with the 4G63 line, they would be well away of it and have corrected the problem. For the OP's build, what you have is just fine. Being you are in Phoenix, I would recommend ditching the injectors for a set of 1000cc of more and making the switch to E85. There are TONS of people down here running it. I would recommend going with a stock 98-99 ECU too for tuning to save on cost there as well. A EVO316G with a set of 1050cc injectors and E85 will make right around 375 easy. And be a great everyday car.

just alittle info

1. when me and a friend owed the dogbox racing laser for a bit, it was built with eagle rods and we didnt a probelm "made over 600hp ran in the 9's and on nitrous" but i also have had probelms with eagle stuff "in the pass 3 years" and i am not the only one, buschur also had a probelm with there stuff.do a search and if you see dont believe me just call eagle themselfs.

2. now as the crank goes when i opened the box, in the inside of the box it said junk crank in marker. so i called eagle and ask them what was the deal as i got it from eagle direct. they told me to send it back. i did and a week later, i called and asked what was going on ??? i was told it was bent and they didnt know how it was shipped out to me - i believe can find the pics if it will help

3. i am sure when someone opens a set of rods from eagle new in the box and one of the arp bolts just falls out because the thread damage and the hole is alittle bigger the the bolt itself its a probelm. - i believe can find the pics if it will help

4. i have been building dsm for over 17 years and been around a long time almost for the begining

5. i still use eagle stuff, just not there 4g63 stuff -

6. i think some people need to think about what they are about to post because, they can cost someone money and time when posting wrong info or things they dont know about. - i am not talking about 95black , just over all

7. just looking to help the person who ask and save some money

 

[skizzo81]

well i got the rods pistons and acl race series bearings for 500$. because the guy got his car repo'd. everything is getting balanced and checked at my machine shop, so running a max of 350hp i think i will be fine.

What do you think I'll make is bench racing & not allowed here.

For your goals, the stock motor is fine. So basically any "aftermarket performance" product would be more then enough.

what is bench racing? i dont understand, i just want to know what other people with similar mods have made.

 

[dsmtun3r98gst]

Definition of bench racing:

1. To discuss the possible quarter-mile elapsed time (E.T.) of a car based on a list of modifcations or horsepower estimate.
2. To discuss the estimated output (in horsepower) of one engine versus another based on lists of modifications done to each engine.
3. To discuss "which is faster?" or "Which would win in a race?" between two cars, based on 1 and 2 above.

 

[skizzo81]

ok... but i am a newbie so i cant post ever where. what i asked wasnt any kind of competition, i was just looking for a goal that i should be looking for.

 

[wdawson4]

You set you own goal every car is different and ever scenario has to many variables to give you a solid number. Do some research make your own goal and once you think you have reached it dyno your car.

 

[Gamble97]

I am just going to max a tune with 91 octane and around 20 psi. other mods are 66cc injectors, evo 3 manifold and o2 housing, full 3" exhaust no cat. fmic, td05 turbo. i am hoping for 300 at the wheels. but i dont have any idea.

what do u think i will make.

For your goals, the stock motor is fine. So basically any "aftermarket performance" product would be more then enough.

+654684864 Unless you have high goals like 10s. OEM rebuild is fine. Everyone seems to forget that the 4g63 from the factory can hold a lot of power. The 7bolt IIRC can hold 500hp. If you want a inexpensive upgrade that can hold 600hp (no more) go with OEM evo pistons/rods.

Btw there is nothing wrong with eagle IMO. I had them in my 7bolt and no problems. However that build was almost 5 years ago. I have some in my 6bolt but it's not done yet.

FWIW my friend was running eagle rods and nippon racing pistons and was making well over 500hp (fwd) and never had any hiccups with inexpensive pistons. Those can be found for $80 on ebay.

ok... but i am a newbie so i cant post ever where. what i asked wasnt any kind of competition, i was just looking for a goal that i should be looking for.

Try to use correct punctuation and capitalism whenever possible. We shouldn't be giving you a goal. It's all what you want out of your car. But if you want something to shoot for, here is what I would recommend knowing nothing about you.
Shoot for 300whp. That is more than enough for a lot of people. You can get into plenty of trouble that way. It's not a shit ton of power but it's enough to have a lot of fun and not worry about breaking too many parts.
For the 7bolt bottom end just do stock or evo internals.
OEM crank.
Balance shaft removal kit.
ACL or clevite bearings are what I run/have run.
OEM Rod and main bolts are fine. Really no need for ARP. It's not like the stockers break ever. I have yet to see one happen.
ARP headstuds and a Mitsu MLS headgasket
MBCAD kit with a line hone. Some people say it's the crankwalk "cure", but for the price I would throw it on.
Main Bearing Cap Alignment Dowel (MBCAD) Kit
Then remember to get an OEM front case and OEM/GMB water pump.
And call it done.
And I think you mean 660cc injectors and not 66cc. However 300hp you may or may not be pushing the limits of those injectors. Maybe not though, it's been a long time since I ran a small injector. I would say at least 750cc and Ecmlink for tuning. Throw on a wideband sensor.
Skip the evo3 manifold and go with a FP manifold. Then a 1g throttle body. FP 4" intake, a nice set of 264 or 272 cams and a FMIC.
The money you are going to waste on forged internals can be better spent on other mods.

 

[skizzo81]

+654684864 Unless you have high goals like 10s. OEM rebuild is fine. Everyone seems to forget that the 4g63 from the factory can hold a lot of power. The 7bolt IIRC can hold 500hp. If you want a inexpensive upgrade that can hold 600hp (no more) go with OEM evo pistons/rods.

Btw there is nothing wrong with eagle IMO. I had them in my 7bolt and no problems. However that build was almost 5 years ago. I have some in my 6bolt but it's not done yet.

FWIW my friend was running eagle rods and nippon racing pistons and was making well over 500hp (fwd) and never had any hiccups with inexpensive pistons. Those can be found for $80 on ebay.




Try to use correct punctuation and capitalism whenever possible. We shouldn't be giving you a goal. It's all what you want out of your car. But if you want something to shoot for, here is what I would recommend knowing nothing about you.
Shoot for 300whp. That is more than enough for a lot of people. You can get into plenty of trouble that way. It's not a shit ton of power but it's enough to have a lot of fun and not worry about breaking too many parts.
For the 7bolt bottom end just do stock or evo internals.
OEM crank.
Balance shaft removal kit.
ACL or clevite bearings are what I run/have run.
OEM Rod and main bolts are fine. Really no need for ARP. It's not like the stockers break ever. I have yet to see one happen.
ARP headstuds and a Mitsu MLS headgasket
MBCAD kit with a line hone. Some people say it's the crankwalk "cure", but for the price I would throw it on.
Main Bearing Cap Alignment Dowel (MBCAD) Kit
Then remember to get an OEM front case and OEM/GMB water pump.
And call it done.
And I think you mean 660cc injectors and not 66cc. However 300hp you may or may not be pushing the limits of those injectors. Maybe not though, it's been a long time since I ran a small injector. I would say at least 750cc and Ecmlink for tuning. Throw on a wideband sensor.
Skip the evo3 manifold and go with a FP manifold. Then a 1g throttle body. FP 4" intake, a nice set of 264 or 272 cams and a FMIC.
The money you are going to waste on forged internals can be better spent on other mods.

Cool thanks for your tips.

 

[1GenDSM]

Regarding quality control; I've seen bent crankshafts from Eagle, Scat, Lunati, and a few others. And I've seen bent and broken camshafts from Comp, Crane, Howards, and a few others. Quality control is NEVER 100% in this industry. Also keep in mind that "bent and broken" can easily happen in transit. It didn't nessacerily leave the manufacturer in the condition that it was received by the end user. A bad egg or two doesn't make the whole carton bad. Eagle products for the 4G63 are just as good to use as they are for any other platform, regardless if someone somewhere once got a bent one.

Also regarding the statement above where a crank was received with a note "junk crank"; that sounds like it was a defective return that was accidentily sent back out. The fact that it shipped back out was an isolated mistake, not a quality control issue. No telling who thought it was "junk" and why, but I can assure you that Eagle doesn't label their parts junk before they hit the loading dock.

 

[Black'95]

Thanks for all the dirt on Eagle, folks. I bought my stuff quite a while ago; I don't recall when, but like last year. Anyway, it's nice to hear from guys with first-hand experience, not the usual 'he said, she said' internet garbage.

+654684864 Unless you have high goals like 10s. OEM rebuild is fine. Everyone seems to forget that the 4g63 from the factory can hold a lot of power. The 7bolt IIRC can hold 500hp. If you want a inexpensive upgrade that can hold 600hp (no more) go with OEM evo pistons/rods.

Btw there is nothing wrong with eagle IMO. I had them in my 7bolt and no problems. However that build was almost 5 years ago. I have some in my 6bolt but it's not done yet.

FWIW my friend was running eagle rods and nippon racing pistons and was making well over 500hp (fwd) and never had any hiccups with inexpensive pistons. Those can be found for $80 on ebay.




Try to use correct punctuation and capitalism whenever possible. We shouldn't be giving you a goal. It's all what you want out of your car. But if you want something to shoot for, here is what I would recommend knowing nothing about you.
Shoot for 300whp. That is more than enough for a lot of people. You can get into plenty of trouble that way. It's not a shit ton of power but it's enough to have a lot of fun and not worry about breaking too many parts.
For the 7bolt bottom end just do stock or evo internals.
OEM crank.
Balance shaft removal kit.
ACL or clevite bearings are what I run/have run.
OEM Rod and main bolts are fine. Really no need for ARP. It's not like the stockers break ever. I have yet to see one happen.
ARP headstuds and a Mitsu MLS headgasket
MBCAD kit with a line hone. Some people say it's the crankwalk "cure", but for the price I would throw it on.
Main Bearing Cap Alignment Dowel (MBCAD) Kit
Then remember to get an OEM front case and OEM/GMB water pump.
And call it done.
And I think you mean 660cc injectors and not 66cc. However 300hp you may or may not be pushing the limits of those injectors. Maybe not though, it's been a long time since I ran a small injector. I would say at least 750cc and Ecmlink for tuning. Throw on a wideband sensor.
Skip the evo3 manifold and go with a FP manifold. Then a 1g throttle body. FP 4" intake, a nice set of 264 or 272 cams and a FMIC.
The money you are going to waste on forged internals can be better spent on other mods.

As far as the injector sizing goes, I just made 304whp/292wtq on CBRD's Mustang dyno with 550cc injectors running about 78-81% duty cycle (duty cycle is logged with my Innovate SSI-4). The dyno logged 22.7psi max boost, and my base fuel pressure is 60psi, set with the Aeromotive AFPR. -6 lines from the 255HP pump to the Aeromotive filter, then -6 again to the stock rail, and out to the AFPR. My AFRs were 11.9-12.3 up top, so not too lean. Also, after the dyno, I found out I had some substantial exhaust leaks before the turbo, and I changed to a 3" intake, so the car may have a tiny bit more now. This was all on 93 pump gas. Anyhoo, the car seems quick to me, and when I hit the track this season (hopefully!), I should run into the 12s easily. (That's for whoever just asked about 300-350whp. I suppose I should add that race weight is around 3000-3100lbs).

Regarding quality control; I've seen bent crankshafts from Eagle, Scat, Lunati, and a few others. And I've seen bent and broken camshafts from Comp, Crane, Howards, and a few others. Quality control is NEVER 100% in this industry. Also keep in mind that "bent and broken" can easily happen in transit. It didn't nessacerily leave the manufacturer in the condition that it was received by the end user. A bad egg or two doesn't make the whole carton bad. Eagle products for the 4G63 are just as good to use as they are for any other platform, regardless if someone somewhere once got a bent one.

Also regarding the statement above where a crank was received with a note "junk crank"; that sounds like it was a defective return that was accidentily sent back out. The fact that it shipped back out was an isolated mistake, not a quality control issue. No telling who thought it was "junk" and why, but I can assure you that Eagle doesn't label their parts junk before they hit the loading dock.

Haha, I suppose it's like anything else: you do it long enough, and you'll see it all.

 

[crash89]

Thanks for all the dirt on Eagle, folks. I bought my stuff quite a while ago; I don't recall when, but like last year. Anyway, it's nice to hear from guys with first-hand experience, not the usual 'he said, she said' internet garbage.

Regardless of all the "dirt" thats been presented, you shouldnt just discard the rods youve already spent you money on. I bought a set of Eagle rods and Wiseco pistons about two years ago and I still intend on building my motor and pushing it to whatever it will take! Im certain this combo will outlast whatever you can throw at it anyway, so why not?. That is, assuming this setup is assembled correctly.. I just dont see a good reason to "throw away" all the money you spent on parts..

 

[Black'95]

Regardless of all the "dirt" thats been presented, you shouldnt just discard the rods youve already spent you money on. I bought a set of Eagle rods and Wiseco pistons about two years ago and I still intend on building my motor and pushing it to whatever it will take! Im certain this combo will outlast whatever you can throw at it anyway, so why not?. That is, assuming this setup is assembled correctly.. I just dont see a good reason to "throw away" all the money you spent on parts..

Oh, yea, I definitely will still be using the stuff I have, , 'dirt' was just the expression I used. Man, I got the whole Eagle stroker kit with rods, Arias pistons, crank, bearings, and rings for like $1,500! I can't afford to get rid of it after that!

 

[FUZZYDESERTDSM]

id say get all you maintenance done before you install anything, last thing you want is a dead car cause you didn't replace the timing belt or shaft belts etc, then after mod away.