650 to small for evo III 16G?

[hollandeclipse]

With the ostrich you mean the ECU+ tuningkit sold by Mach V right?

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

With the ostrich you mean the ECU+ tuningkit sold by Mach V right?

No, the Ostrich I'm talking about is sold by Moates.net and it is an EPROM emulator. It plugs into the socket you solder into the ECU and then plug a USB cable into the Ostrich unit. Then you use software to edit the ECU's bin file with TunerPRO or TunerPRO RT (RT = Real Time) to edit the ECU's bin file to your specs. If you use regular TunerPRO you will have to save the bin and then copy it to the Ostrich for the changes to take effect. If you use RT then you can make changes when you are in Real Time mode.

I opted to buy a chip burner and pull the chip out every time I want to make changes. All I have to do is make the changes, save the bin, pull out my chip, plug it into the burner, erase the chip, burn the chip, plug the chip into ECU. Done.

The Ostrich and TunerPRO RT would be the closest equivalent to DSMlink that you could get for CHEAP!!!

Hope that clarify's things.

 

[JayRolla]

Would I just need the emulator and RT tuner and i'm set?

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

Yes, as long as you have an EPROM ECU.


Here's a little taste on what TunerPRO looks like:

Sorry, No Sliders....

 

[JayRolla]

I think I will still go with dsmlink due to the ease of tuning, Im not experienced with load based tuning quite yet. Also I need the PK feature along with ntfs, studder box and the other features. Plus I dont need an eprom with v3.

 

[hollandeclipse]

Today I checked base timing and it was about 9* btdc. So I decided to set base timing now at 3* btdc but my problem is still there.

I have to set my AFC to the positive side still.

At low I have to set my AFC at 0. At high I have to set it to +6. This should be pig rich but my FTRM is 115 % and my FTRH is 135!!

Any other ideas what I can check now?

 

[pneumo]

Today I checked base timing and it was about 9* btdc. So I decided to set base timing now at 3* btdc but my problem is still there.

I have to set my AFC to the positive side still.

At low I have to set my AFC at 0. At high I have to set it to +6. This should be pig rich but my FTRM is 115 % and my FTRH is 135!!

Any other ideas what I can check now?

All trims are controlled by the lo settings on the safc. Try richening the lo settings by +2% at 1k rpm, +3% at 2k rpm, +5% at 3k and higher, then drive and see if the trims change enough. Hi trim is used from 175Hz up to around 350Hz. If Hz goes higher you'll see O2 trim lock at 100%, which means you're in open loop and trims aren't used anymore.
Ignore maf Hz when logging a full throttle run. The logger can only read 1606Hz max.
The stutter you felt when adjusting the hi settings richer than +8 is from misfires, which means the A/F ratio is way too rich. It could also be due to old plugs or plug wires.

 

[hollandeclipse]

Yesterday I did a WOT 3rd pull outside temp was 39F. Boost set to 18 psi.

RPM O2 TIMA knock IDC TPS
3843 0,91V 19 6 46% 56,2
4593 0,91V 16 5 71% 99,6
5312 0,89V 19 3 83,5% 99,6
5500 0,89V 20 4 86,7% 99,6
6000 0,89V 24 3 89% 99,6
6375 0,89V 23 1 92,1% 99,6

Any advise? seems that my 650cc's are having trouble keeping up with the airflow. Or is anything else wrong with fuelsupply. This also explains why I can't richen it up further cause I will pass the max IDC.

 

[pneumo]

Yesterday I did a WOT 3rd pull outside temp was 39F. Boost set to 18 psi.

RPM O2 TIMA knock IDC TPS
3843 0,91V 19 6 46% 56,2
4593 0,91V 16 5 71% 99,6
5312 0,89V 19 3 83,5% 99,6
5500 0,89V 20 4 86,7% 99,6
6000 0,89V 24 3 89% 99,6
6375 0,89V 23 1 92,1% 99,6

Any advise? seems that my 650cc's are having trouble keeping up with the airflow. Or is anything else wrong with fuelsupply. This also explains why I can't richen it up further cause I will pass the max IDC.

Try adding 3-5% at 3krpm on the Hi map to reduce knock where it starts. Remove 5% at 7krpm. Log a 3rd gear pull and see what happens.

 

[spyderturbo007]

There is something wrong here, because your IDC's shouldn't be that high, nor should you be adding fuel with the 660's. I'm running 650's on the EVO III 16g at 23psi and only hitting about 76% IDC.

 

[dsm-onster]

Yea, something else is wrong here. This is what his fuel trims look like:

My fueltrims are:
Low 101%
Mid 111 % (very long time to change, difficult ot get any lower)
Hi 135 % (not changing at all not even after 14 days)

If he had a boost leak the trims would look the opposite. Low being the highest and high being the lowest.

He's running out of fuel as early as light throttle. Hence, the lean high fuel trim.

Your ecu doesn't know whetheror not your injectors can "keep up" during open loop. It just knows injector size and opens them based on the airflow circumstances. It doesn't have the hardware or code to deduce, "Oops not enough fuel than what the map says I need. Let me add more". That's only with o2 feedback in closed loop. Your closed loop controlled fuel trims indicate that as you get higher in actual airflow the injectors are flowing less than the fuel map predicts. This would mean that your airflow metering is off. Since you have an SAFC, the tune or injector size is the question, since youve checked your fuel filter by now, right? What are your settings again? What is your compensation on all the rpm points? +8% at high throttle? Where did you get these 650s? Is that an ebay 255 fuel pump or a walbro 255 fuel pump?

Also, pulling 6degress base timing and not curing the knock would indicate the possibility of phantom knock. Something that a cheap ostrich and tunerpro r/t cannot remedy with out really understanding hex.

I did do the smoke test and it was negative we could not see any smoke from the exhaust. To be honest I had expected it also but not even a small black one.

Is it possible to check the fuel pressure if someone else sits on the one rearsit and the other rearsit is fold down to reach the fuelpump or is this al silly idea.

Can you pull your spark plugs and tell us their color. Posting a pic would be best.

 

[hollandeclipse]

[, since youve checked your fuel filter by now, right? What are your settings again? What is your compensation on all the rpm points? +8% at high throttle? Where did you get these 650s? Is that an ebay 255 fuel pump or a walbro 255 fuel pump?

Also, pulling 6degress base timing and not curing the knock would indicate the possibility of phantom knock. Something that a cheap ostrich and tunerpro r/t cannot remedy with out really understanding hex.


Can you pull your spark plugs and tell us their color. Posting a pic would be best.[/QUOTE]

My compensations are low 1000rpm: -8; 2000rpm -2; 3000-8000 rpm: 0
hi 1000-8000 rpm: +6

I get all my parts from slowboy, The 650'ss are complete new and are from FIC. the Walbro is also from slowboy. I still have to replace my fuelfilter. I will pull off a sparkplug and post a picture here next monday.

 

[dsm-onster]

+8% is adding fuel. You have 650s you should be subtracting 30% (-30%) of fuel across the rpm range with the stock maf. And with the 2g maf, you should be compensating about -10% for 650s. So the -8% at 1000rpms is probably correct. You're fuel is falling off at high rpms. Hense, you having to add fuel to run correct. Either:

1) the fuel pump is weak
2) the fuel pump connection is very resistive
3) the fuel filter is clogged
4) the fuel lines are clogged
5) the fuel sock is clogged
6) you were sent improper injectors
7) the fuel pressure regulator is faulty
8) the maf is faulty
9) there is a leak after the fuel pump before the fuel injectors (I.E. at the injector seals, at the fuel line inside the tank connecting to the fuel pump, at the fuel line going into the fuel rail)

 

[hollandeclipse]

Today I checked my fuelpump. Installation was good. But the filter underneath the pump was really clogged. After resolving this the car feels immediately stronger. Still some knoxk issues. I also noticed that one of my header bolts is out. I have a leak between the manifold and the head. Perhaps this is causing the knock and the lower 02 readings. I have to repair this first to go further.

Does a leak between head and manifold causes leaner 02 readings. (some fresh air can be sucked by the turbo and mixes with the burned gasses which should lean out the mixture in the exhaust right?

 

[dsm-onster]

Yes.

And the filter underneath the pump is the fuel sock. . .

 

[hollandeclipse]

More then a year later I have done the necessary mods:

1. New EM (FP cast manifold)
2. AEM Wideband

I tuned the car to no knock, but I only get rid of knock when I tune it rich. My AFR is 9,8. As soon as I lean this out to 11,0 knock occurs, 8-10 counts of knock. My base timing is set to 3. My timing at WOT is 23.

Can you guys advise how I can get a better performance tune then this?

 

[pboglio]

What do you expect from pump gas? If your running 23* timing and 18-20 psi on pump that is about as good as it gets with an E3 16g. I ran 22 psi and my timing got pulled back down to 13* on my 2g, this is on pump and a fairly moderate a/f ratio.

You have found the limit of pump gas on your setup. Either pull the timing back a couple degrees or richen up the fuel curve or drop the boost down.

 

[hollandeclipse]

Pboglio,

How much HP are you seeing with your setup?

Mine settings gave me a result of appr. 230 whp and 275hp at the engine.
What can I do to raise my power. Can I best turn the boost down and then tune for e.g. 11,0 or do I have to look for some kind of timing retarding? I see a lot of posts of members who are claiming 330 engine hp with the e3 16 g setup.

 

[camfast]

You should be putting way more than 230whp from an e16g at 20psi! Anyway, the best way to really extract power on pump gas is by tuning with some type of engine management system, ex: AEM, DSMlink etc.. If you only have the AFC as a tuning device then target 11.0-11.1 AFR and yes, turn down the boost and increase it slowly until you are able to maximize your combo with no knock. My friend has 680s on a big 16g and ran well into the 12's at 106 with a blown turbo, so you should be able to get similar results.

 

[hollandeclipse]

So yesterday I went out to do some tuning. First I decreased the boost to 12 psi.

But still I have knock and I really have to make my mixture very rich to get rid of the knock. My AFC setting are at 0 from 3000 till 8000 and then I have no knock. As soon as I lean out the mixture I get 8 counts of knock . My mixture is very rich then according to my wideband it goes straight under 10. So I guess I am at 9,5 or something.

Another strange thing are my fueltrims. With the low throttle settings set to around 0 from 3000-8000 rpm on I get this strange ftr result:

FTRL 93%
FTRM 120 %
FTRH 95%

Wideband reading when out of closed loop is under 10.

my FPR is set at 30 psi with the vacuum hose connected.

My HZ readings are very low:

Idle: 35 hz
3000 rpm @ 60mph: 180 Hz

My Maf is the e5t06071; 609 so this should be the good one

Can it be the case that my AFC is wired wrong?

 

[spyderturbo007]

This thread is pretty old, and I don't have a lot of time, but have we suggested checking the knock sensor. Do you have access to race gas or E85?

 

[hollandeclipse]

Finally I have resolved my problems. The problem was the base timign setting. Because my cranckpully was starting to separate the readings with the timinglamp wasn't accurate. Last sunday I retarded the cas without the timing lamp just up untill the point that the enige was still running smooth at idle, I went out with the wideband and logger and finally I was able to get rid of the knock. i am seeing 19-20 degrees timing at WOT untill 6000 rpm. Between 6-7krpm it rises to 25 but with some enrichment of the mixture at these rpm's and the premium pumpgas overhere (98ron) i am finally able to control knock. My settings are also more in line with the theoretical values. My AFC is set -12 at high throttle up untill 5000 rpm and then it goes to -9 up untill 8000 rpm. The wideband indicates 11,2 at 3000-4500 rpm and is maxed at 10,4 at 7000 rpm. The only thing I want to try in the future is the use of the Superchips EU-spec conversion. this will allow you to control ignition timing through the powerband and you can adjust the timing with a maximum of 25 degrees up and down per rpm setpoint, programming is done through a laptop.

Thx for all the advises form all of you!

 

[Calan]

Because my cranckpully was starting to separate the readings with the timinglamp wasn't accurate. Last sunday I retarded the cas without the timing lamp just up untill the point that the enige was still running smooth at idle, I went out with the wideband and logger and finally I was able to get rid of the knock. i am seeing 19-20 degrees timing at WOT untill 6000 rpm. Between 6-7krpm it rises to 25 but with some enrichment of the mixture at these rpm's and the premium pumpgas overhere (98ron) i am finally able to control knock.

So you are out doing pulls and turning the motor at 7000 rpm's, with a HB that you know is starting to separate?

Good luck with that.

 

[gringo72884]

your problem is your base fuel pressure....you need to run it at 37psi and tune from there....right now your fuel pump and injectors are being overworked for no reason.....therefore causing your injector duty cycles to be very high

 

[hollandeclipse]

So you are out doing pulls and turning the motor at 7000 rpm's, with a HB that you know is starting to separate?

Good luck with that.

Yeah you are right a did a few very short pulls just to know how it went, The car is now standing still and awaiting my new cranckpulley!