1G 6 bolt aluminum rod questions

[Anfurnyy]

Picked up some R&R aluminum rods for my build but I have some questions. I'm just trying to be prepared going forward. I've put a ton of time into this build and I want to make sure I'm doing it right.
Yes I've searched. I've searched for hours and read just about every post dealing with Aluminum rods installs.

1: I'm running a 6 bolt, Kiggly Girdle and ARP mains. Stock crank, stock stroke 2.0L. Will the rods clear everything in the block? oil squirters, the girdle, the main caps, suitcase handles, etc. I don't mind having to bend the squirters but shaving down the caps is a little different. I'm also hoping not to delete the oil squirters.

2: For drilling out the rod bearings for the Dowel in the cap, do you just drill it and debur it and call it a day? Do you Chamfer the ID side of the bearing like it looks like there is? If so what's the best way to chamfer them, just another bigger side drill bit? (Running ACL Tri metals)

3: What would be the best way to measure your Piston to Head clearance? Is it just the quench area + uncrushed or crushed head gasket thickness?

4: Can you final torque the rod caps without a stretch guage just using torque?

Yes some of these questions can/will be answered in time but I'm just trying to be prepared.

Thank you in advance for any input.

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[Brandon Mau]

You’ll have to bend the oil squirters a tiny bit to clear the rods. From what I’ve seen with the r&r rods you’ll need to clearance the bottom of the cylinder bores and take off a lot of the saddle braces on the bottom end. Bearings is like you said drill it l, debur and done. I’ve never measured any of my ARP hardware is it the right answer to some probably not but if you follow the torque sequence and avoid over torquing then you should be just fine. Before anyone chimes in that’s wrong I’ve been doing it that way for 15 years and never had any issues with any of my arp hardware causing me problems.

 

[Anfurnyy]

From what I’ve seen with the r&r rods you’ll need to clearance the bottom of the cylinder bores and take off a lot of the saddle braces on the bottom end.

Clearance the bottom of the bore even on a 2.0 with stock 150mm rods and crank? I kind of figured the saddle braces would. Ill have to throw it together after measuring my bearing clearances and see what it looks like.

Seriously though, thanks for the info. I don't know why this stuff isn't floating around ANY of the forums.

 

[DSMPT]

1: I'm running a 6 bolt, Kiggly Girdle and ARP mains. Stock crank, stock stroke 2.0L. Will the rods clear everything in the block? oil squirters, the girdle, the main caps, suitcase handles, etc. I don't mind having to bend the squirters but shaving down the caps is a little different. I'm also hoping not to delete the oil squirters.

No it won't clear some part even if 88mm stroke with 150mm rods. This is something you have to measure by yourself and grind according to your preferred clearance. On a 6 bolt 2.0 with 150mm R&R rods, like @TeamFury mentioned above that at least you have to grind the bottom of cylinders and the main caps and would need to deal with the oil squirters if you have. But you should always be careful with the clearance on the locations below (Especially if it's a stroker). But a 2.0 obviously would need less grinding than a stroker.

2: For drilling out the rod bearings for the Dowel in the cap, do you just drill it and debur it and call it a day? Do you Chamfer the ID side of the bearing like it looks like there is? If so what's the best way to chamfer them, just another bigger side drill bit? (Running ACL Tri metals)

Yes, IIRC it's a 3/16 drill. Just be careful not to damage bearings when you are deburring and make sure the edge would be smooth and clean. I made a bearing holder to drill, like the pic below with a rod cap. And before drilling your new bearings, maybe it's a good idea if you do a practice with old bearings if you have.

3: What would be the best way to measure your Piston to Head clearance? Is it just the quench area + uncrushed or crushed head gasket thickness?

Check the deck height with a dial gauge and a dial gauge bridge. The R&R rods originally come .010" shorter, so your deck height should already be around .010" below deck if you have never resurfaced the block (it depends how much you have resurfaced the block before). The deck height + the thickness of compressed head gasket is the head clearance.

4: Can you final torque the rod caps without a stretch guage just using torque?

You can do but generally speaking, it's better if you can go with the stretch method.

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[Anfurnyy]

No it won't clear some part even if 88mm stroke with 150mm rods. This is something you have to measure by yourself and grind according to your preferred clearance. On a 6 bolt 2.0 with 150mm R&R rods, like @TeamFury mentioned above that at least you have to grind the bottom of cylinders and the main caps and would need to deal with the oil squirters if you have. But you should always be careful with the clearance on the locations below (Especially if it's a stroker). But a 2.0 obviously would need less grinding than a stroker.

Got it. I guess I'll have to somewhat throw it together and do some clearancing.

Yes, IIRC it's a 3/16 drill. Just be careful not to damage bearings when you are deburring and make sure the edge would be smooth and clean. I made a bearing holder to drill, like the pic below with a rod cap. And before drilling your new bearings, maybe it's a good idea if you do a practice with old bearings if you have.

I test drilled one of the new rod bearings and it seemed to come out decent. I drilled from the outside of the bearing to the inside. This seemed to cause a bit of burring to get pushed to the inside of the bearing. Would it be better to drill from the inside of the bearing to the outside? I DID drill mine by hand just being careful to stay perpendicular to the hole, and then I actually took a bigger bit and cleaned up the inside of the bearing where it was drilled but it doesn't look all that great honestly.

I ordered some std + .001 clearance bearings but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I will need some std size. My mains measured .0035-.0040 with the extra clearance. My guess is my rods are likely going to be the same.

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Check the deck height with a dial gauge and a dial gauge bridge. The R&R rods originally come .010" shorter, so your deck height should already be around .010" below deck if you have never resurfaced the block (it depends how much you have resurfaced the block before). The deck height + the thickness of compressed head gasket is the head clearance.

Got it. I have a dial bore gauge I guess I would just need the bridge. My head as far as I know has about .005 shaved off under my ownership. I will measure the service dowels on the bottom of the head and see what they measure at.

Back (thermostat side): .0052
Middle: .0056
Front (Cam side): .0050

I do have an old crushed OEM gasket I might be able to measure but it was used with regular ARP head studs and not the L19s I'm moving to. I'm assuming this would effect how much the gasket will crush.

My old head gasket measured .~0054 in between each cylinder. Measured .0054-.0057 from the fire ring of the gasket outwards

Head deck surface to top of head where the valve cover seals: ROUGHLY 131.90mm or 5.193 inches.

You can do but generally speaking, it's better if you can go with the stretch method.

I'll have to look into a stretch gauge then. IF one decided to torque by torque any idea what the torque spec might be? I read that in another post (owner of TMZ Posted) that he ended up around 70ft/lbs after re-torquing 3 times?

 

[DSMPT]

Would it be better to drill from the inside of the bearing to the outside?

In my case, from the inside to the outside had better results in tests, so I do in that direction. But anyways you would deburr.

Got it. I have a dial bore gauge I guess I would just need the bridge. My head as far as I know has about .005 shaved off under my ownership. I will measure the service dowels on the bottom of the head and see what they measure at.

Back (thermostat side): .0052
Middle: .0056
Front (Cam side): .0050

I do have an old crushed OEM gasket I might be able to measure but it was used with regular ARP head studs and not the L19s I'm moving to. I'm assuming this would effect how much the gasket will crush.

My old head gasket measured .~0054 in between each cylinder. Measured .0054-.0057 from the fire ring of the gasket outwards

Head deck surface to top of head where the valve cover seals: ROUGHLY 131.90mm or 5.193 inches.

Cylinder head height is something different and wouldn't affect the piston to head clearance. But yes it would affect the piston to valve clearance.

I'll have to look into a stretch gauge then. IF one decided to torque by torque any idea what the torque spec might be? I read that in another post (owner of TMZ Posted) that he ended up around 70ft/lbs after re-torquing 3 times?

I don't know how Tim exactly built his engine but maybe you are confused between "re-torquing 3 times" and "torquing in 3 steps"?
When you get a stretch gauge you would see that actually each bolt would have a different torque number to get the same stretch. In my case (new R&R rods with new L19 bolts), IIRC the torque numbers were between 60-65ft-lbs to get the recommended stretch. For instance, some bolt has 60ft-lbs, some has 65ft-lbs to have the same stretch. Normally the torque number range you see in manufacturer's instruction is a general number to get the recommended stretch. In R&R instruction, it shows only the recommended stretch and a torque number that you don't exceed, like the pic below.
The torque method would work fine, and you wouldn't probably have any issue. It's just the stretch method is theoretically better and more precise. So this is like how much perfection you want in your engine.

Good luck with the build and enjoy the aluminum rods

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[Anfurnyy]

In my case, from the inside to the outside had better results in tests, so I do in that direction. But anyways you would deburr.


Cylinder head height is something different and wouldn't affect the piston to head clearance. But yes it would affect the piston to valve clearance.


I don't know how Tim exactly built his engine but maybe you are confused between "re-torquing 3 times" and "torquing in 3 steps"?
When you get a stretch gauge you would see that actually each bolt would have a different torque number to get the same stretch. In my case (new R&R rods with new L19 bolts), IIRC the torque numbers were between 60-65ft-lbs to get the recommended stretch. For instance, some bolt has 60ft-lbs, some has 65ft-lbs to have the same stretch. Normally the torque number range you see in manufacturer's instruction is a general number to get the recommended stretch. In R&R instruction, it shows only the recommended stretch and a torque number that you don't exceed, like the pic below.
The torque method would work fine, and you wouldn't probably have any issue. It's just the stretch method is theoretically better and more precise. So this is like how much perfection you want in your engine.

Good luck with the build and enjoy the aluminum rods

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Awesome thanks for the info!

I'm trying to enjoy them just a slightly longer road ahead than originally thought but it will be back up and running in time.

 

[DSMPT]

a slightly longer road ahead

Right. With aluminum rods, you would need to assemble and disassemble to clearance more than with steel rods, but just be patient, it is worth it.

I don't know why this stuff isn't floating around ANY of the forums.

Yeah I understand this. There is no many useful info about aluminum rods. One reason I can imagine is many people actually believe that you can't build an aluminum rod engine at home. I saw many times in facebook groups that people are saying that you have to ask a machine shop to build the engine, if you want to go with aluminum rods.

 

[Anfurnyy]

Right. With aluminum rods, you would need to assemble and disassemble to clearance more than with steel rods, but just be patient, it is w

Absolutely. I've already waited this long. What's a few extra hours at this point. I'm really ready to throw whatever I can at this thing. The motor should hold together, I have my doubts about the drivetrain.

Yeah I understand this. There is no many useful info about aluminum rods. One reason I can imagine is many people actually believe that you can't build an aluminum rod engine at home. I saw many times in facebook groups that people are saying that you have to ask a machine shop to build the engine, if you want to go with aluminum rods.

There really isn't which is unfortunate. Maybe after this I'll throw up some information on of the of big posts about aluminum rods about what needs clearanced, with pictures. Of course every build differs slightly but maybe someone with the same questions as me could find their answer.

I'm not sure why people would think they couldn't. It's not really any different than building any other engine albeit this is MY first complete teardown. Just do your research, and ask questions when needed.

 

[DSMPT]

I'll throw up some information on of the of big posts about aluminum rods about what needs clearanced

A good idea. Actually I have been working on a tech article for aluminum rod stroker, but I am slow. The first pic is a part of it.

I'm not sure why people would think they couldn't.

People are interested in. But I think finally many people decide not to, because of the lack of info and some wrong infos have been spread in facebook etc.