4g63t motor/head questions

[WORPeclipse]

First of all i have done research and keep comin up with more and odd questions. I dont know if its just me, but i keep gettin confused.

I bought a so-called 95 eclipse turbo auto with a bad tranny. well after lookin at the title its a 95 talon. Big deal oh well.

Then i pick up a gsx man tranny and everything to make it awd and 5speed.

I'm almost done wit the swap and notice i have crank walk real bad. Well now time to fix that.

I find a deal on a 1g head and a 2.4l short block. Might as well go that route.

I'm lookin into doin the 1g head swap then i notice everything is tellin me to wire up the 1g cam sensor and how. I then start recognizing that hey thats the same cam sensor i have and there is a harness like the one in this link on my car.

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/parts/electrical/CAS_plug_n_play95.jpg

I still have the 2g mani and its a 7bolt bottom end. Did some of the 95's have diff stuff? Is it like this cause its a talon? has someone already done a 1g head swap? There is a pic with this of my cam sensor.

 

[gofer]

It can be none of those things or all of them, its pretty common to find a 1g CAS and put it on a 2g head by cutting and splicing a few wires. Typically the 7-bolt owners that have decided to use a 1g CAS are '95-'96 DSM owners since the stock CAS on them is under the intake cam gear and a PITA to replace if it goes bad.

A 6-bolt head will have a (3) bolts holding on the t-stat housing where as a 7-bolt head has (5) bolts holding it on. Take a picture of the t-stat housing and I can tell you if its a 6-bolt or not...

 

[WORPeclipse]

here are the pics of the water neck and outlet.

there is another bolt behind the water outlet.

 

[gofer]

Thats a 7-bolt head, you've just got a 1g CAS on it thats all. By the looks of the engine bay it appears you've got A LOT of work on your hands to get that thing to reliable status.

 

[WORPeclipse]

i had it almost together and ready to run all but fuel lines. then i noticed the crank walked ripped alot of it back apart.

 

[siemens03]

i have some questions on some of the stuff mentioned here. i have a 95 eagle talon turbo fwd and was looking at the gaskets for a 1g intake and a 2g intake and have heard of the 6 bolt swap. is the 6 bolt a 2.4? whats the benefits or loss of doing this over a stroker? and can you just bolt the 1g head up to a 7 bolt block? if so it seems as if that would be awsome the runners are twice the size. i just built a brand new motor for my car when i got it, it had a rd knocking. this is my first dsm so i just replaced everything with stock except i out forged pistons in it for the juice factor. some input on some good roads to take would be nice thanks

 

[2GbTalonGuy]

i have some questions on some of the stuff mentioned here. i have a 95 eagle talon turbo fwd and was looking at the gaskets for a 1g intake and a 2g intake and have heard of the 6 bolt swap. is the 6 bolt a 2.4? whats the benefits or loss of doing this over a stroker? and can you just bolt the 1g head up to a 7 bolt block? if so it seems as if that would be awsome the runners are twice the size. i just built a brand new motor for my car when i got it, it had a rd knocking. this is my first dsm so i just replaced everything with stock except i out forged pistons in it for the juice factor. some input on some good roads to take would be nice thanks

A 6 bolt is still a 2.0 unless its stroked. A stroker kit is only worth doing if you are going for big power (+450 WHP).

A 6 bolt head will require you to have to drill and tap your head bolt holes in your block larger. the 6 bolt heads use larger bolts (somebody correct me if I'm wrong). If not that you will have to drill the bolt holes in the head out a bit.

The benifit to a 6 bolt is the "reduced" rick of crankwalk. I wouldnt waste your money on it since you just built up a perfectly capable 7 bolt for your car. Crankwalk isnt somehting you should lose lseep over at night because its blown way out of perportion.

I say start modding since you have a fresh engine in it. Start buying supporting mods for more boost dude.

 

[2GbTalonGuy]

I would just do the 6 bolt swap

WTF Why? He JUST rebuilt his engine. I would put money on the fact that he never has a problem with crankwalk.
Spend your money on go fast parts

 

[thomcasey]

WTF Why? He JUST rebuilt his engine. I would put money on the fact that he never has a problem with crankwalk.
Spend your money on go fast parts

Agreed!!! Also, since the 7-bolt is technically capable of more power (it has the main girdle that the 6-bolt lacks), if he wants to get reals stupid with power, he will have a great starting point.

The swap would be a waste of time and money. Run whatcha brung!!

 

[siemens03]

the thrust on the crank was pretty bad when i tore it apart but not bad enought that my buddys at the machine shop couldnt fix. the reason i was asking some of these questions is the ports on a 1g head are twice the size as a 2g head and i dont wanna spend money on port and polish work on a 2g head when i could just do a 6 bolt head and be there or bigger than a 2g head can be. im pretty sure ill blow the engine long before crank walk starts to be an issue its on its way to being a strret strip car for sure . so what are people using when they talk about a 2.4 block? a spyder motor? whats the ups and downs of that there is a wrecked spider at my local junkyard and i wann start building another motor on a stand with all the goodies and just want to learn from someones tried and true ya know. this and that will save you money or this setup sucks and this one is a great bang for your buck. would love to hear from all angles thanks

 

[WickedQuikAWD]

the thrust on the crank was pretty bad when i tore it apart but not bad enought that my buddys at the machine shop couldnt fix. the reason i was asking some of these questions is the ports on a 1g head are twice the size as a 2g head and i dont wanna spend money on port and polish work on a 2g head when i could just do a 6 bolt head and be there or bigger than a 2g head can be. im pretty sure ill blow the engine long before crank walk starts to be an issue its on its way to being a strret strip car for sure . so what are people using when they talk about a 2.4 block? a spyder motor? whats the ups and downs of that there is a wrecked spider at my local junkyard and i wann start building another motor on a stand with all the goodies and just want to learn from someones tried and true ya know. this and that will save you money or this setup sucks and this one is a great bang for your buck. would love to hear from all angles thanks

The options for a 2.4 block are numerous and dont have to be pulled exclusively from a spyder. hundai 2.4l is the same block basically except they are non turbo with a single cam head. They also may lack oil squirters used to cool the pistons and provide extra lubrication, although a good machine shop can install oil squirters for you. There are two forms of the 2.4l block that i know of... the 4g64 and the g4cs. the g4cs is a six bolt, the 4g64 is seven bolt. the advantage of a 2.4l engine is that you spool a turbo sooner due to the extra displacement and make more low end torque and have a broad power band at the sacrifice of high rpm operation. The 2.4 will never rev as high as a 2.0, but the added torque and faster spool is great for street and autocross driving.

As far as the heads go, having extremely large runners will often sacrifice low end power in favor of more peak HP. before the decision is made to swap over to a 6 bolt head, you should determine what your projected hp output would be, as sometimes the loss in low end is not worth it for minor top end gains seen on low boost, relatively low hp setups. also keep in mind that many head porting high performance manufacturers are opting to start with a 2g (7bolt) head because there is more metal to carve out custom ports that are more efficient through out the rev range. Good luck with your build.

 

[2GbTalonGuy]

There are endless arguments on this site about which head is better. Some say the 6 bolt head is better because of the larger ports, and others swear by the 7 bolt head because the smaller ports make the air flow at a higher velocity into the engine. You can read for hours about the arguments in different threads on here.

 

[siemens03]

is the 4g64 already a turbo motor?

 

[red94gsx]

The 4g64 was never turbo from the factory, as far as I know.

The 1g head has larger intake ports, larger runners, and I believe a shallower valve angle. It is set up for higher rpm power

The 2g head has smaller everything, and helps low end torque.

It just depends what you want out of your car. The different head designs don't really do much anyways until the rest of your setup gets serious.

 

[Jesse__c]

i love my 2.3 stroker. the difference in power all the way thru is night and day from the 2.0.

 

[WickedQuikAWD]

i love my 2.3 stroker. the difference in power all the way thru is night and day from the 2.0.

Just to clarify, the 2.3 stroker is built by using the 100mm stroke crank from the 2.4l motor in the 2.0l, which increases the stroke and in turn, the displacement. The 2.0 block needs to be notched or 'clearenced' to accept the new crank so the rods wont make contact with the block during rotation.

The 2.4l motor uses a completely different block than the 2.0 and has a higher deck height as i understand.

You can also build a 2.1l destroker by putting the 2.0l 88mm stroke crank into the 2.4 block for high revving power.

 

[siemens03]

and the 2.4 is a single overhead cam only so a stroker is the best way to go huh?

 

[jimbob_843]

Not all 4g64s are SOHC engines but most are. The 90-99(not sure on the range) model galants have the 4g64 SOHC engine in them and only one year of production did they make a DOHC 4g64. It came in a 90somthin galant. Also take note to the direction the motor sits in the bay. I ran into a problem with this. All motors facing the same way should have interchangable parts. The 2000-up eclipses have the motor facing the opposite way in the bay and will not mount in a 2g.

I have some pics on the profile showing the differences in the blocks trying to mount to a 2g trans.

Also do some research on doing a frankenstein build(63 head on 64 block) It might be a good build for you. Im doin one now if you got any questions.

 

[bNasty]

A 6 bolt is still a 2.0 unless its stroked. A stroker kit is only worth doing if you are going for big power (+450 WHP).

A 6 bolt head will require you to have to drill and tap your head bolt holes in your block larger. the 6 bolt heads use larger bolts (somebody correct me if I'm wrong). If not that you will have to drill the bolt holes in the head out a bit.

The benifit to a 6 bolt is the "reduced" rick of crankwalk. I wouldnt waste your money on it since you just built up a perfectly capable 7 bolt for your car. Crankwalk isnt somehting you should lose lseep over at night because its blown way out of perportion.

I say start modding since you have a fresh engine in it. Start buying supporting mods for more boost dude.

there are plenty of people making big power on strokers, please provide evidence

 

[WickedQuikAWD]

and the 2.4 is a single overhead cam only so a stroker is the best way to go huh?

The 2.4 blocks that have SOHC heads will accept the DOHC head from the 2.0l engine. So in effect, you can have a 2.4 bottom end with the DOHC 2.0l head on it. The stroker causes more side loading on the cylinder wall and more stress on the rods due to the increased stroke... which ultimately limits RPM in favor of a bigger torque curve.

 

[Tanro]

You can build a 2.4 4g63 you just need the Block and Crank from a 2.4 (4g64 or G4CS) and then you can either use the cam gears from a 1994 Galant GS, remark your stock cam gears, or get adjustable ones. Use the timing belt from a 1994 Galant GS as well.

A 2.3 Stroker is the animal that magnus(I think) came up with by using the 100mm crank in a stock block.

Whichever way you go you are gonna need a 100mm crank and proper pistons. Wiseco sells them for the 2.4 but not sure who else does. You can get 2.3L stroker kits or build your own and use an oem or billet or forged crank. All depends on how much power you want to push.

The 2.4 and 2.3 are not just for horsepower. They are torque happy low end beasts. Very fun to drive and a whole different animal.

 

[WORPeclipse]

I ended up going the 2.4 bottom end and the 1g turbo 63 head. New rings and bearings. As well I went all new gaskets, balance shaft removal, new water pump.

I'm still waiting on rod bearings and rings to get here. All my gaskets are here. I have got the oil drain passages blocked off and the balance shaft removed. I'm getting ready to finish installing the crank and put new crank shaft seals, front plate gaskets, and water pump back on tonight.


also if you look up the compatibility on orielly's website when lookin up the timing belt for the 2.0 turbo it shows its also the same one for the 94 galant gs with the 2.4l DOHC

Timing Belt part #T168
1994Galant GS
L4 - 2.4L 2351cc type 4G64 - MFI GAS DOHC
1995 - 1998*Eclipse GST
L4 - 2.0L vin F 122ci 1997cc type 4G63 - MFI GAS DOHC Turbo-charged
as well as many other vehicles.