420A High CP Turbo Set-up Help

[mzdzoom]

Ok so I can't post this where it should go yet but hopfully some of you see this that know how to help me. Iv already rebuilt my 420a had the head port and polished new rebuilt crank Wisco 10.5:1 pistons and Eagle rods. Iv got a T3/T4 Turbo with an AR .60 inlet and a custom built manifold. I got almost all the parts I need to put this Turbo on my motor but I want to make sure Im doing it right before I even start. First things first Im not changing my compression so please don't waste my time trying to tell me I need to go with 8.8:1. Second is that im not turning this into a full blown race car its going to be my DD so im only gunna run around 8psi. I have a AFR gauge set up already running on the car and I also have an Adj. FPR with that being said is there a need to get an FMU if i can just adj. the fuel myself.
I have a billet fuel rail looks similar to the OBX. Iv got a GSP 38MM Wastegate and my FMIC and BOV is a Universal kit off Ebay. Im running Stock ECU and Injectors and i don't ever run anything less than 91 for my fuel. If theres anything else that im missing please help me out here also if u have any pictures of how you have your oil lines hooked up as far as the feed line goes and also to where your vac lines all run to that would help me out a lot as well I will post some pictures of my progress as I get started currently the shell i'm going to be using i only have the FMIC mounted the motor is still in my DD

 

[grothe3297venge]

First off, your not the first to go turbo with a 10.5 comp setup. People just say its wise to go with lower for the added room to prevent knock and detonate and what not but its possible to do on a 10.5 comp setup. This guy here had a 10.5 comp setup until he blew a oil gear - DSM Forums - View Profile: Slo2gen

Only difference is he did it correctly running megasquirt to control fuel and timing which is the most feasible thing to do. You can't use a band aid fuel setup here because its not a matter of if, it's a matter of when your engine will destroy itself.

Next thing to do is get rid of that aftermarket fuel rail, you don't need it what so ever. Next, you can't run a adjustable fuel pressure regulator with stock injectors, you won't get enough fuel when entering boost (you can run a FMU - 12:1 ratio). You can also get an SFMU (get some 450cc injectors and have a smudge more control). Again, most feasible thing to do is buy MS so your car is somewhat more reliable.

Lastly, the fact you don't know where to hook oil lines and where your vac lines go is concerning. I think you should read more about turbocharging a N/A car and become more educated on things such as vac lines, oil lines, and so forth.

**edit** - also I highly recommend you get a wideband, your going to really need it.

 

[jayson427]

You need to read about megasquirt and install it if you don't want your motor to blow. You need a fcd also. I would get a better blow off valve. With a .60 a/r you will barely be able to keep your egt's down so you need a 3inch Turbo back exhaust too.

 

[dsmcrzy]

You need a fcd also.

Just to clarify... This is not needed when the megasquirt is running fuel and spark.

 

[jayson427]

Just to clarify... This is not needed when the megasquirt is running fuel and spark.

He probably won't do Ms That's why I included the fcd with my post.

 

[mzdzoom]

Sorry I did forget to mention that my AFR gauge is a wide band its innovative also I have a sandwich adapter so I'm assuming that I would just run my feed their but my return has to go straight to the oil pan yes?

 

[glowryder]

If your asking those questions, you need to read more.
Grothe covered most of it. the 10.5 is really going to require you have some precise tuning, more than a set it and forget ti solution. granted the 8psi will help, but we need to know what your cfm will be on your "t3/t4" [], that will really define youre fuel need. we know 8 psi on a 16g is pretty standard, so i would compare yours to a 16g.

But ultimatley, do more reading. Nothing wrong with higher cr and boost, infact its better, but the balance is spending the cash on the tuning tools, like MS. you could try FIC?

 

[mzdzoom]

If your asking those questions, you need to read more.
Grothe covered most of it. the 10.5 is really going to require you have some precise tuning, more than a set it and forget ti solution. granted the 8psi will help, but we need to know what your cfm will be on your "t3/t4" [], that will really define youre fuel need. we know 8 psi on a 16g is pretty standard, so i would compare yours to a 16g.

But ultimatley, do more reading. Nothing wrong with higher cr and boost, infact its better, but the balance is spending the cash on the tuning tools, like MS. you could try FIC?

I'll take a picture of the turbo and post it just to be sure it is what I was told it is when I bought it

I'll take a picture of the turbo and post it just to be sure it is what I was told it is when I bought it

<img style="visibility:hidden;width:0px;height:0px;" border=0 width=0 height=0 src="http://c.gigcount.com/wildfire/IMP/CXNID=2000002.0NXC/bT*xJmx*PTEzNzI3OTMwNTQwNjEmcHQ9MTM3Mjc5MzExOTkxMCZwPTIzNDQ3MSZkPSZnPTEmbz*5OTJlMjc2YmE1Y2U*ZDBmOTVm/OTc4N2JiNGI3ODcxMw==.gif" /> <a href="http://tinypic.com?ref=vfwirs" target="_blank"><img src="http://i42.tinypic.com/vfwirs.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a>

<img style="visibility:hidden;width:0px;height:0px;" border=0 width=0 height=0 src="http://c.gigcount.com/wildfire/IMP/CXNID=2000002.0NXC/bT*xJmx*PTEzNzI3OTMyMTgyNTYmcHQ9MTM3Mjc5MzIyMTQ5MiZwPTIzNDQ3MSZkPSZnPTEmbz*5OTJlMjc2YmE1Y2U*ZDBmOTVm/OTc4N2JiNGI3ODcxMw==.gif" /> <a href="http://tinypic.com?ref=v49hso" target="_blank"><img src="http://i40.tinypic.com/v49hso.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a>

<img style="visibility:hidden;width:0px;height:0px;" border=0 width=0 height=0 src="http://c.gigcount.com/wildfire/IMP/CXNID=2000002.0NXC/bT*xJmx*PTEzNzI3OTMyODEyNjUmcHQ9MTM3Mjc5MzI4MzE1NiZwPTIzNDQ3MSZkPSZnPTEmbz*5OTJlMjc2YmE1Y2U*ZDBmOTVm/OTc4N2JiNGI3ODcxMw==.gif" /> <a href="http://tinypic.com?ref=oubn8h" target="_blank"><img src="http://i41.tinypic.com/oubn8h.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a>

 

[Slo2gen]

I don't see any numbers on that one so if you want specifics on airflow to determine injectors and what not you will need a micrometer or caliper and take the turbo housings off to measure it. Also what cams are you running, your static compression ratio is going to be different than the actual number. Bigger cams bleed off some compression which is good/bad. The more docile the cam the more cylinder pressure your going to have which means your tune HAS to be spot on or you will grenade your motor. And others are right about MS but it has been done on an SFMU before, just know that it didn't last long. He ended up running over 15psi and didn't have a timing retard or control so he melted a piston. There is a TON of info on this and its really not that complicated to do, just is a little costly...even more so if you have to do it twice...

 

[mzdzoom]

I'll look at the turbo tomorrow morning when I get off work but I don't remember seeing any numbers on it if not I've got a mic I'll check it other than that again I probably won't ever go past 8psi that's more than enough for what I'm trying to build and I also have adj. Cam gears my cams are stock as well

Let me restate exactly what I have so it all on one comment
420a
Air research T3/t4 garret with .60 AR INLET
Gsp 38mm waste gate
Ebay fmic with bov
Adj. Cam gears
Adj. Fuel pressure regulator
Port and polished head
Wisco 10.5:1 nitrous pistons
Eagle H-beam forged rods
Complete lower end rebuild oil pump, water pump, crank, bearings
Innovate wide band AFR
Stock exhaust with high flow cat and borla muffler
Blitz dual Boost controller/timer
92-93 octain fuel all the time
Walbro 255 fuel pump

 

[jayson427]

Everyone has given you good info I'm not sure what more you want? Without a way to tune you would be driving a time bomb. Sure you can make it work but it won't last long with out professional help. You will have to get a 3in Turbo back exhaust because the stock exhaust will not flow enough with that kind of compression running a Turbo. I think Slo2gen covered alot of what you need to do. I hate to say but be careful with those cheap parts you always get what you pay for. I have a 10.5:1 motor I've been wanting to Turbo for a while now but I'm not going to slap a Turbo on and think everything is all good. Doing it the proper way will always save money in the long run. I wont go Turbo till I have megasquirt hooked up. If you still want to move forward you will need a sfmu along with what others mentioned above. Good luck tho

 

[killercolt]

Don't put that turbo on your car if you have no way to tune the timing down. I mean really down. NA dsm generally run 30-45 degree of timing. If you put that turbo on with the junkabay GSP wastegate that does not regulate boost lik the ad claim, you will grenade your motor really fast. That turbo you have is some old school garrett junk that surge like crazy at low boost. The manifold is garbage too. It will crack just as fast as you engine will blow up. If you are fooling with the fmu nonsense and the missing link block, you better have AAA on speed dial because the engine will sure to blow up.

8psi on the 420a is a waste of time. You might make 200hp if you don't blow up instantly. It is straight doodle for that heavy car even if you make 200hp because it will feel just as slow. Leave it NA, get a 4g63 car, or shell out some money to build it right. 420a is so prone to cracking the cylinder even at low hp level that it is worth modding.

You can run 10.5:1 cr. All you need to do is run low timing. My car is 11:1 cr and I ran it on 87 octane before. When hurricane Katrina struck, that was the only grade or only gas available in the Atlanta area. I had the timing at 8degree at 16psi.

 

[glowryder]

this "420a is so prone to cracking the cylinder" is BS......

Also, splitting hairs, here , but 6psi on a mildy built 420a will give you ~210-220 hp (same as a gst with but with less boost...) Just saying.

However, I do agree, if your going to mod the 420a, be prepared to spend a good amount doing it right and you might as well go big to maximize the $ per Hp gain. Running low boost like you want, as much as i hate to say it, your probably better off ruining, i mean modding a 4g63.

 

[mzdzoom]

One theres nothing wrong with that manifold I didn't make it personally but I used to work for a company called Stainless Works in Ohio building headers and turbo manifolds and I can tell you now that header will run better than most those other POS that have welds all over the place when you build a TURBO HEADER you have to Back Purge your welds which you apparently have no clue what your talking about so please keep your mouth shut and stay off the 420A Forums. Glow and everybody else thank you all for your help thats exactly what I'm trying to get is opinions on how to set this up properly I have read a lot of forums and seen the you tube videos of guys running 10.5:1 with a turbo stock ecu and injectors and they dont have any problems as long as the keep the boost down below 10psi. Thus being the reason I am asking these questions. I don't have any reason to make this car go stupid fast I have a 1000cc Aprilia to go fast with.

Next I did find a post last night that had a lot of great pictures that I can use to help me with the placement of parts and wires but he ran his feed line into a tee coming off his oil pressure sensor. I have a sandwich adapter so can I run if off there? or would be easier to just run of the ops? I found the other size on the turbo its an AR .48 atamped on the turbo

If I go with MS what exactly do I want to get they have a ten ton of different pieces to their system and which company has the best price for the kit. I do see that Sym Tech has a complete kit for $580?

 

[BogusSVO]

The turbo looks to be from about a 1985 SVO Mustang, It should have an internal WG. Having the .48 A/R hotside would mean it cams from an auto car, the 5 speeds had a .63 A/R hotside.

 

[mzdzoom]

The only thing i know about this set up is that the guy I bought it from had it setup on a 420A and he wrecked the car

Ok so i just looked back at the wastegate i bought and it looks like ill be starting with just 5psi not 8 the springs that came with it are 5psi and 10psi springs