2g automatic guys, HELP :( Limp mode?

[elementalwindx]

Ok I took a trip to Raleigh this weekend for a meet and I wanted to see how well the automatic would handle a 2 hour trip and some driving around the town all in the same day. As its probably the most its been driven in a single day at least in a year. Since I've bought the car I've only put less than 2,000 miles on it, and changed the end clutches and the seals inside that area (except beneith where the 6 torix screws are). Ok so on the way up there, me and another dsmer get side by side and I turn OD off and go from 60-100mph pulling hard on him, then I slow back down to 80 and turn OD back on, but for some reason it refuses to go back into OD, so I call a few friends and one mentions that if the TCU gets a code, it wont let it go into OD and to just turn the car off and let the ECU cycle and turn it back on and it should work, well that did work and we got to Raleigh just fine. This whole time the trans temp gauge is right at around 115deg. Well during the drive in Raleigh I'm switching in and out of OD and sometimes shifting the gears by hand going from L to 2 to D, and thruought the day the transmission has been staying in the 150-180deg range and the transmission was stuck in what felt like 3rd gear and I am GUESSING this is a limp mode of some sort? I can put it into L and into 2 and there is no gear change, then I can put it into D and it will change into some gear, and if I turn OD on, it wont change any kind of gear, and for some reason the transmission would not get cooler than 150deg even while driving on the highway.

What the hell could be causing this to happen? I have not changed the filter inside this transmission yet but Lee (the previous owner) said he changed it religiously after each race. I've taken this thing to the strip 3 times and not changed the filter once, and I've changed the fluid once when I did the end clutches. Please help guys, thanks.

I've also checked the fluid with it in N and there is fluid to the top of the black dip stick.

 

[elementalwindx]

-edited due to weird double post-

 

[elementalwindx]

Ok, I just took it out for a drive after cooling down from the time I first posted this til 20 minutes ago. I took it out with OD on and drove it like a normal civilized person and it ran just perfect. Took it to the gas station to fill it up and back, about 15 minutes round trip. On the way back I shifted it by hand, and took it out of OD and ragged on it getting up to 65mph (I dont care to speed too much on a 55mph city street), and the highest temp it got up to was between the 100 and 150 mark (125). It didnt throw any CEL codes and it ran just perfect. Anyone have any idea wtf is up?

 

[xioca]

I've read on here somewhere that it wasn't good for the tranny when you downshifted it manualy, but it's ok to upshift manualy. Just thought i'd let you know because I used to do that and it made my tranny act weird too.

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

Yeah, even with a built a/t, it's not good for it to be constantly shifting it manually. Continue abusing it like that and you're going to eventually cause problems if you haven't already. I only do that sparingly when I need to accelerate off the line hard or need to take a hard turn into traffic where I need to stay in 1st longer.

 

[elementalwindx]

Yeah, even with a built a/t, it's not good for it to be constantly shifting it manually. Continue abusing it like that and you're going to eventually cause problems if you haven't already. I only do that sparingly when I need to accelerate off the line hard or need to take a hard turn into traffic where I need to stay in 1st longer.

Do you have any solid proof that shows how shifting from L to 2 to D can harm the transmission? Thats how I drag race it on the strip.

I NEVER down shift though. I just slow down in whatever gear I'm in and once I'm stopped I go to L, or I put it in D.


Heres a little update on the 2 hour drive home with this POS:

Ok, this has been one of the worst trips on I-40 I've ever had. Leaving my girls house getting on I-40, the car decides to throw itself back into limp mode again, so I pull over on the side of the road and turn the car off, wait 30secs and turn it back on, continues to do it, I pull over a few more times til I get to around exit 350, and finally after talking to Lee, he says unhook the battery and reset the ECU and just get on the highway and drive and dont let it drop down into 3rd or it will stay there, so I do it, and it works the whole way home, then I get to wilmington and go from stop light to stop light just fine as if there was never a problem.


What the hell could it be? It's gotta be something 100% electrical/sensorish right? Cause if it was mechanical then even after I reset the battery, the problem would still be there right? Please help guys!

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

This is funny, you ask for "solid proof" that constantly manual shifting an a/t causes harm, yet you're asking why your a/t is operating like shit?

Think about it, it's common sense logic. An a/t is designed to be shifted electronically by the computer, which is why it will override most unsafe conditions so you don't blow up your tranny, however when you use the lower gears for racing you force it outside of the safe ranges it was designed for. Those lower gears are there for rare times you need to descend a steep hill or climb one without the computer leaving you in a higher gear.

Bottom line: if you want to shift manually, get a 5-speed. You want proof? Use a search engine...most transmission experts call manual shifting an a/t transmission abuse. You want to pay for costly transmission rebuilds, go ahead. But it's your car. Expect to keep asking why your tranny isn't working right.

 

[blackbyrd]

I believe it has something to do with that your tcu retards timing during shifting, I'm not sure if doing that manually will have the same effect.
It's not advised either way, but I find a lot of people doing it, so I won't jump to conclusions and say thats the cause of your problems.
You should try to read your TCU for fault codes, and tell us what it says.

 

[phastalon]

I know this is an old thread, but does anybody know the solution to this problem? My car is doing the same damn thing.

 

[danny_l_2005]

phastalon i would suggest contacting John from IPT. If manually upshifting and downshifting gears would be abuse for the transmission why would IPT and TCugo sell their products? TO mess up a transmission? dont think so

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

IPT and other vendors have no control on how responsible you are with your tranny. The more you break things the more money they make.

Anyway, just do the RMT mod if you want smooth manumatic shifting.

 

[danny_l_2005]

IPT and other vendors have no control on how responsible you are with your tranny. The more you break things the more money they make.

Anyway, just do the RMT mod if you want smooth manumatic shifting.

The RMT mod won't be doing smooth shifting, it would actually be the opposite. Given maximum line pressure it will shift pretty hard, hence why they don't recommend downshifting. Please don't create an bad image to our vendors, they are very helpful and wouldn't create a product that will destroy our transmissions. I would rather pay for the IPT Electro-Matic Manual Controller than doing the RMT mod

 

[mini zilo]

I'm not taking sides here, but I also would just like good proof that manually shifting is bad. I'm not saying anyone is wrong, or right. I would just like to know the truth. Does it really hurt the trans? Has anybody actually talked to a transmission "expert" or who has experience with this. We can't just assume his problem came from manually shifting, but it certainly is a possibility. This topic has been debated a lot, some say it's just fine to manually shift, others say it is the worst thing. So does anybody actually have professional advice/information...not just information they heard somebody on this or another forum say. Not everything you read on here is true... Anybody with personal experience?

Let me just show you what I mean about the debating:

Manually shifting an auto is bad for a transmission

I beat the hell out of my 1g A/T and never had any issues with the transmission.

Manually shifting an auto is probably the worst thing you can possibly do to the transmission.

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

I'm not taking sides here, but I also would just like good proof that manually shifting is bad. I'm not saying anyone is wrong, or right. I would just like to know the truth. Does it really hurt the trans? Has anybody actually talked to a transmission "expert" or who has experience with this. We can't just assume his problem came from manually shifting, but it certainly is a possibility. This topic has been debated a lot, some say it's just fine to manually shift, others say it is the worst thing. So does anybody actually have professional advice/information...not just information they heard somebody on this or another forum say. Not everything you read on here is true... Anybody with personal experience?

Let me just show you what I mean about the debating:

The proof is in posts like the OP's here and all the others from people always asking "why is my tranny f'd up? I was only racing around revving deep into all the lower gears manually, I just don't get it".

If you don't think it's because of the abuse he gave his tranny, then why don't you answer his questions and explain why his tranny was screwed up?

Like I said before, it's your tranny. Abuse it all you want. This one was $2600 so I think I'll take care of mine, thanks.

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

The RMT mod won't be doing smooth shifting, it would actually be the opposite. Given maximum line pressure it will shift pretty hard, hence why they don't recommend downshifting. Please don't create an bad image to our vendors, they are very helpful and wouldn't create a product that will destroy our transmissions. I would rather pay for the IPT Electro-Matic Manual Controller than doing the RMT mod

As far as I know, the IPT and rmtmod work by the same methodology, except now IPT offers that nice 4 button box so you can stay in Drive and conveniently shift without using the lever. "Nice" price too, $569.

Thanks, I'll take this box and shift myself: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...RK:MEWN:IT&viewitem=&item=330088716167&rd=1,1

And yes, it shifts full line pressure, but it shifts near instantly into gear rather than having to change valves and pressure which makes not using the rmt or electro-matic very inaccurate and too easy to over rev. I'm not saying rmt is safe, I'm saying if you drive everywhere hard on your tranny, don't be surprised when you're on tuners asking why your tranny isnt using od anymore, not shifting, stuck in gear, slipping, etc.

Who said the venders make items to destroy your transmissions? I said it's up to you to use their items responsibly. I can buy a T70 Turbonetics and slap it in my car, then run 35 psi and blow my non-built engine. Did Turbonetics build something to blow my engine? No. I did for being an idiot and will make another vendor happy repairing the damage.

 

[mini zilo]

If you don't think it's because of the abuse he gave his tranny, then why don't you answer his questions and explain why his tranny was screwed up?

That's fine, like I said, I'm not saying your wrong, and I'm not trying to challenge you buy asking for proof...I was just wondering what the real truth was.

 

[Phantom DSM]

Im running a fully built IPT transmission with a 3300 stall converter. I have only put 7000 miles on this tranny since i got it built ( Its freaking amazing btw).
I rarely downshift , but sometimes i throw it down to 2nd at around 55 mph just to feel a good spool. I have heard it can be a problemto downshift a lot from high speeds, but in my experience a built tranny should take some abuse . John at IPT swears by his stuff, but that does not mean you should excessively abuse it.
If the original poster had to upshift every gear in racing, you know its gonna act like that eventually as a safety mode by the tcu.
No offense, but go with a rebuild guys .. THE BEST investment i made in this car, and that thing will downshift violently, should you need to haul ass from a roll.
Check your fluids, flush it , if it still feels clunky or slipping, you might as well rebuild and take it easy in the time being. Ipt tranny

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

That's fine, like I said, I'm not saying your wrong, and I'm not trying to challenge you buy asking for proof...I was just wondering what the real truth was.

If you're talking about a race rebuilt tranny like Phantom is talking about, then I agree it should by all measures be far more robust in handling high power output and manual shifting than a stock tranny.

I don't think anyone's conducted a scientific study concerning manual shifting autos, so it'd be very hard to "prove" cause and effect in this case. I think you can deduce, however, that anytime you demand a mechanical part to exceed the parameters it was engineered for, that may consititute abuse. The autos in dsm cars weren't intended to be sport shifted like newer cars with the auto/manual button hybrids. If they had been, we wouldn't need the RMT mod to rid us of the pressure delay we get when manually shifting our autos.

 

[elementalwindx]

Sorry for the late update guys, I just moved into my recently purchased house and things have been hectic of course and it took us an entire month to get internet installed here *blah*, but here is the current update.

I've checked every fuse in my car, all fuses are perfect. I took off the auto fluid pan and the fluids looked fine, no metal came out of them from my magnets, BUT I did find a bolt from the valve body stuck on one of the three magnets inside the pan along with very minor shavings of the clutch packs from my 6k launches at 4-16psi on a 4200 stall. I put the bolt back in its place and checked all other bolts I could and they were all perfectly fine. I put new fluids back in, put the pan back on, and took it for a drive, it still goes into limp mode, I even tried another TCU and it still goes into limp mode. Things would seriously help now if I could get a damn trouble code of some sort. I can't even get John (transdude) to call me back out of all 3 times I've called him in the past 3 months. I always get the other John that doesn't know "as much about dsm trannys as that john does"

Please remember this tranny has the *A/T Boost Controller, Shift Kit, 4200 restalled converter, end clutch kit, huge B&M tranny cooler, ipt tranny temp gauge and block.


Every time I reset the battery it will drive just fine for the first few minutes shifting as hard as the a/t boost controller is set for and going thru every gear just fine, but once it finds whatever is screwing it up, it goes into limp mode. I have done this over 10 times now trying to solve the problem, or get it back home without overheating it.


Also for reference for rice over wheat, this is not a baby'd daily driven car. This is a track only car that I enjoy blowing up, rebuilding to be faster, and blowing up again. It would just be nice if I could get this problem taken care of.

 

[Rob10_99]

the bolt that fell out... was it an outside bolt that holds the valve body on?
if so the gasket might have blown out, or an Oring, whatever is in there

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

Also for reference for rice over wheat, this is not a baby'd daily driven car. This is a track only car that I enjoy blowing up, rebuilding to be faster, and blowing up again. It would just be nice if I could get this problem taken care of.

Check your thread on dsmlink. Linked to mine in the trans section. A guy there made a really nice diagram for the rmt mod or you can just buy the ebay solution.

Edit: saw your post on dsmlink, totally missed how you have the IPT solution.

 

[elementalwindx]

the bolt that fell out... was it an outside bolt that holds the valve body on?
if so the gasket might have blown out, or an Oring, whatever is in there

If your looking right at the valve body, its the top right corner bolt. I've never had to remove the valve body before so what all is involved in doing this? Just removing all the 10mm bolts and pulling it off or is there more?

 

[elementalwindx]

I just read the plymouthlaser.com vfaq on removing the valve body to install a shift kit. There is only one seal and its an O-Ring, so I do not see how that bolt coming off would have affected that o-ring. I just found out how to get the TCU codes too so I am going to check those out later this Sunday, so hopefully I will have more info soon!

 

[Rice Over Wheat]

Let us know how you pull them as I'm still not clear how you do that. Manually...but what does that mean?

 

[elementalwindx]

I simply wired in a LED from radio shack to pins 4(ground) and 6(power) on the diagnostics connector and watched the LED blink for the trouble codes. I got #61: Short or Open-Circuited torque reduction request or execution signal line



Does anyone have any idea wtf this means? I'm googling the heck out of google but so far no luck.