2g 16g install

[TheGreatGSX]

I did a lot of reading on other posts about this, but really didn't find the answers I was looking for...

#1 - I read that it is "advisable" to port out the O2 housing or buy a ported O2 housing with a 16g, can anyone clarify that a little more. As in how necessary is it? ANSWERED

#2 - How come some 2g install kits only have a J pipe and most people say you only need a J pipe when other install kits and some people say you also need an L pipe (90 degree) in order for it to fit the SMIC? ANSWERED

#3 - Parts that are ordered: small 16g, 190 Walbro, Evo 560cc injectors, 99 Flashed ECU...anything else I need or should check into?

#4 - Does the 190 walbro need an install kit? I saw some came with "install kits" and others didn't. ANSWERED

#5 - Goal 300-325HP, guy that I am getting my flashed ECU from says I may make up to 350HP, do I need another BOV? (1g BOV, not sure if it is "crushed", got pics in my profile I believe) ANSWERED

I think that's all the questions I got, I did A LOT of reading and couldn't find any answers specific to these, I would like to keep this thread open though since I will be installing the turbo hopefully early next week Mon-Wed just in case I need extra help or run into any issues.
Ready to get my hands dirty and get this beast running in time for summer!

 

[95redturboawd]

If you don't port the o2 housing you will get bad boost spike. As for your parts ordered, I don't know much about the flashable ECUs, but maybe a SAFC or dsmlink? Whether or not you'll need to crush your 1g bov depends on how much boost you plan on running.

 

[TURBD]

#1 not necessary but would help.
#2 don't know I made my own.
#3 go with the 255hp, FPR and a rewire. For the minor cost difference more is better.
#4 see above
#5 Buy a quality BOV, crushed 1g's will work but a good one is better.

 

[TheGreatGSX]

If you don't port the o2 housing you will get bad boost spike. As for your parts ordered, I don't know much about the flashable ECUs, but maybe a SAFC or dsmlink? Whether or not you'll need to crush your 1g bov depends on how much boost you plan on running.

The flashed ECU will take care of not having a SAFC, it'll already be tuned for my setup. If I need any tweeks I can simply send it back and it'll be tweeked for what I need and sent back to me. As for the boost, I plan on running around 17-18psi

#1 not necessary but would help.
#2 don't know I made my own.
#3 go with the 255hp, FPR and a rewire. For the minor cost difference more is better.
#4 see above
#5 Buy a quality BOV, crushed 1g's will work but a good one is better.

I have no desire to exceed the goals listed above, which a 255 walbro is not needed and I have no intention of getting a FPR (Which is why I am getting a flashed ECU)
#5 I just want everything that will work for now, of course I will be replacing the BOV with a better one later down the road, I just want to make sure the 1g which is already on the car will handle the extra boost. Although I am not sure if it is crushed or not.

 

[Red97Eclipseboy]

Having an AFPR has nothing to do with your "flashed" ECU. Try not to be to fixated on that. Nor will a flash ever be as good as actual tuning from something like DSMlink. It is a good idea to port your o2 housing. It's to keep your boost-pressure stable. Your fuel system sounds fine. Like said before, I would re-wire, too. The install kit is needed for the pump. It should come with new hardware and a new strainer. And the "L" pipe is only from Dejon I think. You just need a j-pipe.

You also may as well change out your fuel-filter, too. And don't focus on running a certain PSI. That's as cool as your flashed ECU being the reason you don't need an AFPR. Catch my drift, holmes?

 

[EclipseTical]

I did a lot of reading on other posts about this, but really didn't find the answers I was looking for...

#1 - I read that it is "advisable" to port out the O2 housing or buy a ported O2 housing with a 16g, can anyone clarify that a little more. As in how necessary is it?

#2 - How come some 2g install kits only have a J pipe and most people say you only need a J pipe when other install kits and some people say you also need an L pipe (90 degree) in order for it to fit the SMIC?

#3 - Parts that are ordered: small 16g, 190 Walbro, Evo 560cc injectors, 99 Flashed ECU...anything else I need or should check into?

#4 - Does the 190 walbro need an install kit? I saw some came with "install kits" and others didn't.

#5 - Goal 300-325HP, guy that I am getting my flashed ECU from says I may make up to 350HP, do I need another BOV? (1g BOV, not sure if it is "crushed", got pics in my profile I believe)

I think that's all the questions I got, I did A LOT of reading and couldn't find any answers specific to these, I would like to keep this thread open though since I will be installing the turbo hopefully early next week Mon-Wed just in case I need extra help or run into any issues.
Ready to get my hands dirty and get this beast running in time for summer!

1. A ported o2 housing will help with boost creep. Is it necessary? Possibly not but if you suddenly experience boost creep issues with your new 16g then porting would be a good suggestion.

2. sorry can't help, i have a FMIC.

3. If you don't already have i strongly suggest a true wideband o2 set up and some way to log data; I have no experience with flashed ECUs so i don't know if logging is possible? I use ECMLink personally and love it.

4. You'll want the install kit for the wally pump, i would also suggest you re-wire it during the install for consistent voltage.

5. I highly doubt you're going to come anywhere near 300 on only 17psi, YMMV though so good luck!

The flashed ECU will take care of not having a SAFC, it'll already be tuned for my setup. If I need any tweeks I can simply send it back and it'll be tweeked for what I need and sent back to me. As for the boost, I plan on running around 17-18psi

I have no desire to exceed the goals listed above, which a 255 walbro is not needed and I have no intention of getting a FPR (Which is why I am getting a flashed ECU)
#5 I just want everything that will work for now, of course I will be replacing the BOV with a better one later down the road, I just want to make sure the 1g which is already on the car will handle the extra boost. Although I am not sure if it is crushed or not.

For your goals of only 17/18psi the 1g bov un-crushed will be more than enough. You have no immediate need to get "a better one" unless you just want the sound/bling factor or you start seriously upping the boost to really awaken that 16g.

Good luck

 

[DearestNameless]

We are going for the same setup. I would also like some of these answered and depending on who gets there DSM done first maybe we can help each other.

 

[TheGreatGSX]

Having an AFPR has nothing to do with your "flashed" ECU. Try not to be to fixated on that. Nor will a flash ever be as good as actual tuning from something like DSMlink. It is a good idea to port your o2 housing. It's to keep your boost-pressure stable. Your fuel system sounds fine. Like said before, I would re-wire, too. The install kit is needed for the pump. It should come with new hardware and a new strainer. And the "L" pipe is only from Dejon I think. You just need a j-pipe.

You also may as well change out your fuel-filter, too. And don't focus on running a certain PSI. That's as cool as your flashed ECU being the reason you don't need an AFPR. Catch my drift, holmes?

I understand a flashed ECU will never be as good as an actual tuning and I'm ok with that, I don't have the time right now to learn how to fine tune. The flashed ECU will be "close enough" to a good tune and I'm happy with that.
I guess I worded it wrong when it came to the AFPR, I won't need the AFPR because I will be using a 190, not because I'll have a flashed ECU.

With my goals though, the 255 is kind of overkill and although the 255 is close in price as the 190, you need an AFPR which can get pricey if you want a good one.

1. A ported o2 housing will help with boost creep. Is it necessary? Possibly not but if you suddenly experience boost creep issues with your new 16g then porting would be a good suggestion.

2. sorry can't help, i have a FMIC.

3. If you don't already have i strongly suggest a true wideband o2 set up and some way to log data; I have no experience with flashed ECUs so i don't know if logging is possible? I use ECMLink personally and love it.

4. You'll want the install kit for the wally pump, i would also suggest you re-wire it during the install for consistent voltage.

5. I highly doubt you're going to come anywhere near 300 on only 17psi, YMMV though so good luck!





For your goals of only 17/18psi the 1g bov un-crushed will be more than enough. You have no immediate need to get "a better one" unless you just want the sound/bling factor or you start seriously upping the boost to really awaken that 16g.

Good luck

Sorry I meant to say that I will also be getting a logger. I was told to not rewire until I log to see if I actually need a rewire. The car is a DD so 17-18psi will be during the week, on the weekends I may be turning the boost up. I don't plan on going above 25psi though, since this is when I hear s16g tend to be less efficient.

Thank all of you guys for your feedback and advice!

We are going for the same setup. I would also like some of these answered and depending on who gets there DSM done first maybe we can help each other.

Sounds good man! When are you planning on doing everything? Hopefully I'll start mine this week coming up Monday being the earliest, Wednesday being the latest. Keep me updated.

 

[DearestNameless]

I've got the 190 waiting install, the e16g is in the mail, and I'm hoping to order the injectors soon. I'm actually going to buy a Openport cable and laptop to tune and log both. I have hard SMIC pipes ATM I might go to FMIC depends on budget. You will probably beat me to it. I'm definitely subscribing to this thread.

 

[TheGreatGSX]

For the O2 housing, how about a "tubular 304 SS O2 Housing"?

Also found one with an external dump, ported.

 

[Afroclipse]

Defiant please come back please.

 

[JFZERO ECLIPSE]

Your really not thinking of all the little detail about what you need for your install....I may not have a super high post count but I definitely know what I'm talking about ... Let me hold your hand through this...

Your ordering a small 16g, 190 Walbro, Evo 560cc injectors, 99 Flashed ECU....

For FMIC's you dont need an L-pipe...for SMIC its best to have one...simple as that....Can't you make something work with some factory piping sure...but having an L-pipe makes life a bit easier...

To have the best possible setup involving the turbo, did you order it ported? Also Please say you got 4 new turbo bolts WITH the number 11 on them IIRC (I've broken ones without the 11...never broke 1 with the 11)...and 8 of the lockwashers that sit under the bolts

You'll also want to antiseize all your bolts....Then I hope you got all new gaskits as well....I dont like to use the SS ones well because they just suck IMHO . I prefer to use copper OR OEM turbo gaskit which is in 3 layers...pretty nice too. Still with the turbo you need a new oil feed line due to the t-25 using an inverted flare fitting where the 16g does not...and new return line since the 2g line wont exactly bolt up (You'll need to either enlarge the bolt holes of the 2g line OR get a 1g line)...as well as different coolant lines...(I managed on making my 2g coolant lines work with some tweaking)

Plus I hope your using all new copper crush washers on all your banjo bolt connections...

Done with the turbo...For the o2 housing you can port if you wish it wont hurt performance it'll help flow too...But if you want the absolute best boost control you'll want an external wastegate....Is it needed..NO...does it make boost control and life much easier...YES...

"Also found one with an external dump, ported"
Um...yeah...Let me guess EBAY garbage...
The best thing to do would buy a tubular SS o2 housing...WITH an external wastegate attached to it...whether you want to recirculate or vent the wastegate is up to you
Recirculated... Tial MVS 38mm Wastegate + o2 Housing Package - Punishment Racing - Punish The Competition
Vented... Stainless Steel V-Band External Wastegate Atmosphere Dumped o2 Housing 2.5" - Punishment Racing - Punish The Competition

For you fuel pump...walbro 190...You dont need an AFPR but any Fuel pump you rewire you might as well expect to need to buy an....For the walbro pumps you need to buy an install kit...but what I did was buy an EVO IX fuel pump....cost me 30 dollars shipped...flows a tad bit more than a walbro 190 and you DONT need an install kit...

For 560 injectors eh? I'm sure they will cover 17-18 psi fine but getting up to the mid 20's you might run them over 80% Injector Duty Cycle (IDC)...which isn't a great thing...

99 flashed ECU is a great new tech...but IMHO it falls short to ECMLINK...I bought V3 and its easy to work with...plus you have excellent customer support and you dont need to dick with any wiring....you 97 might not have the flash plug installed....(I think only late 98-99 models have them) Plus sending the ECU out everytime you need to change a setting will be a major PITA and end up getting costly over the long run...Its kinda hard to tune a car without the car physically there to see how well it likes the changes made.....

300-325HP Kinda doubt it on a small 16g with only 17-18 psi...maybe 25 psi....but not no 17-18 psi...

As EclipseTical said you will want a wideband for tuing purposes...

I installed my 16g on my car about 2 monthes ago...So I do know what needs to be done....Also a FMIC will always help as well plus it cleans up the engine bay some...

I've done enough ranting for the time....

 

[TheGreatGSX]

JFZERO ECLIPSE,

I am still ordering and getting parts for the install, and yes I know about all the bolts, gaskets, etc. I went to vfaq.com and went through the install of what I need and how to do it and will also have a printed version of it as I work on it.
I have no idea why it seems like your getting nasty with me as if I'm some ignorant POS? I mean I appreciate the advice and help but no need to assume that the O2 housings I were looking at were "Ebay Garbage".
And to everyone who keeps criticizing my 17-18psi and 300hp goal...I KNOW 17-18psi won't get me there, it will be more like 25psi, I should of clarified that part and said mainly it will be at 17-18psi as it is a DD, but for the weekends or when I want to really enjoy it I will be turning the boost up.

And you are right about only the 98/99 having the flash plug, which is why the ECU I am getting is going to be a 99 ECU.
The whole reason why I am going the flashed ECU is because I do not have the time to fine tune the car almost each and every time I drive it, even if I do have to send the ECU back to make changes, it's rather cheap and quick and the guy I am getting it from has great customer service. The main point is I am sure I will not have to send it back more than twice as I spoke with his customers about his flashed ECU's and he also has a support forum on his website and they have had no problems with his flashed ECU's. Most of them in fact never needed to send it back at all, it was plug n play and all good ever since.

Plug n play then forget about it unless logger shows anything is what I want. I understand for some odd reason some people on here look down on those who don't like to do fine tuning and what not but we all love DSMs...which isn't that the point of this forum?

When it comes to a FMIC, that is just something that really isn't necessary at this stage of the car. Sorry if I'm completly off here, I just felt animosity from your reply.

EDIT:
OH and I almost forgot, I didn't even think about a EVO fuel pump, but I already ordered the 190 + kit (Doh)
and if I run into the injectors going over 80% IDC then I will adjust as needed. I spoke with several people with this exact set up and they haven't ran into any problems, not to say that I won't run into any, but I am prepared if I do.

 

[DearestNameless]

Question. Where did you pick up your 190 install kit. I can't seem to find one without the pump.

 

[TheGreatGSX]

Question. Where did you pick up your 190 install kit. I can't seem to find one without the pump.

My kit came with the pump . I didn't buy them separately, sorry if I made it sound like I did. I just did a quick search too, and came up empty handed. If I find one or hear of one I will let you know.

 

[GsXtC21]

Question. Where did you pick up your 190 install kit. I can't seem to find one without the pump.

Forced Performance Turbochargers: Walbro Install Kits

 

[JFZERO ECLIPSE]

JFZERO ECLIPSE,

I have no idea why it seems like your getting nasty with me as if I'm some ignorant POS?
And you are right about only the 98/99 having the flash plug, which is why the ECU I am getting is going to be a 99 ECU.
The whole reason why I am going the flashed ECU is because I do not have the time to fine tune the car almost each and every time I drive it

When it comes to a FMIC, that is just something that really isn't necessary at this stage of the car. Sorry if I'm completly off here, I just felt animosity from your reply.

EDIT:
if I run into the injectors going over 80% IDC then I will adjust as needed. I spoke with several people with this exact set up and they haven't ran into any problems, not to say that I won't run into any, but I am prepared if I do.

I wasn't "getting nasty" with you...trust me...You would know if I am...I'm just trying to set out the blantant facts. Plus noticing your very very low post count and you havent exactly been with us for a whole lot of time either...
I'm not sure if your getting the point about the whole flash plug thing...Your car SHOULD NOT have the flash plug...regardless of whether you have the 98/99 Flash ECU your car does not have the plug for flashing purposes...Now if you send it out for flashing thats a different ballgame but now you cant drive your car if you need to..

BUT I myself have ecmlink v3 and I'm a total noob at it....Yet I'm willing to give it a chance and once you have your tune dialed it there shouldnt be a need to ever change it...unless you change something with your cars setup that is...

For the FMIC it is absolutely necessary if you plan on running more than 14 psi through it...It will heat soak like crazy....trust me I know.....I was heatsoaking my stock sidemount on the t-25 at 16 psi on back to back pulls...and the small 16g on 17psi with one pull....

if I run into the injectors going over 80% IDC then I will adjust as needed..

Exactly how to you plan on accomplishing this? Lets see here are the choices, get bigger injectors, run less boost...

You setup is somewhat similar to mine....I have a small 16g with a ported evo III turbine housing, I got the 450's in the car til' I can find my 650's I lost somewhere in my house ....But I have a FMIC and a few other goodies so to speak...$hit I still have my stock exhaust

 

[TheGreatGSX]

I wasn't "getting nasty" with you...trust me...You would know if I am...I'm just trying to set out the blantant facts. Plus noticing your very very low post count and you havent exactly been with us for a whole lot of time either...
I'm not sure if your getting the point about the whole flash plug thing...Your car SHOULD NOT have the flash plug...regardless of whether you have the 98/99 Flash ECU your car does not have the plug for flashing purposes...Now if you send it out for flashing thats a different ballgame but now you cant drive your car if you need to..

BUT I myself have ecmlink v3 and I'm a total noob at it....Yet I'm willing to give it a chance and once you have your tune dialed it there shouldnt be a need to ever change it...unless you change something with your cars setup that is...

For the FMIC it is absolutely necessary if you plan on running more than 14 psi through it...It will heat soak like crazy....trust me I know.....I was heatsoaking my stock sidemount on the t-25 at 16 psi on back to back pulls...and the small 16g on 17psi with one pull....


Exactly how to you plan on accomplishing this? Lets see here are the choices, get bigger injectors, run less boost...

You setup is somewhat similar to mine....I have a small 16g with a ported evo III turbine housing, I got the 450's in the car til' I can find my 650's I lost somewhere in my house ....But I have a FMIC and a few other goodies so to speak...$hit I still have my stock exhaust

I signed up 2 years ago, but have been reading threads and posts here back in 2002, the reason why I have such a little post count is because most of my questions that I had were answered when I actually searched the forums. That's my point when I said you're getting nasty, because you assume I'm less intelligent for some reason. I said I was ordering a flashed ECU, not flashing the ECU.
And of course I won't be able to drive the car, I'm not going to be able to drive the car when I install the new turbo and parts anyways. Like I said, I've read the vfaq and have read hundreds and hundreds of threads on here, I know what I need and practically have most of it ordered, and whatever is left I can pick up at a local parts store or take a trip to Mitsubishi Motors.

I was pushing my T-25 at 16psi also, I never had any issues? Again, if this problem arises or any problem for that matter, it's a simple solve by just upgrading to a FMIC. It's not like I'm going to slap on a bigger turbo, injectors, flashed ECU, and not log or check everything out to make sure everything is working ok. If others have this setup and run it safely with no issues, I assume there's a good chance I can as well, of course I realize that there is always a chance since every car/parts interact differently, in this case I'd rather go with a "as needed" attitude so I don't purchase something I really don't need, but in the same sense I am prepared to buy something I do need if that proves to be the case.

"I wasn't 'getting nasty' with you...trust me...You would know if I am..." - again, that just comes off as if there's animosity. No need to be rude, but I do thank you for your input, advice, and help.

 

[DearestNameless]

I think I got screwed on my Wally. All the guy send was the strainer and the pump. Do I need anything else or can I re use the stuff off the stock pump.

Glad to see all this information coming together in one thread. I could pass on the books and fist shakes but its cool. .

 

[TheGreatGSX]

I think I got screwed on my Wally. All the guy send was the strainer and the pump. Do I need anything else or can I re use the stuff off the stock pump.

Glad to see all this information coming together in one thread. I could pass on the books and fist shakes but its cool. .

Can't help you there, I haven't read up on the 190 fuel pump installation yet. Hopefully this thread isn't dead yet and someone can point you in the right direction, but it sounds like to me you'll still need an install kit.

 

[RedTurboEclipse]

LEt me tell you something from experience..

I was keeping from a loud obnoxious daily driver, so i installed EVERY supporting mod with a MHI big16g setup.. EXCEPT any exhaust components. so I was running stock exhasut.

But had the usual, clutch/flywheel, injectors, link, fmic, bov,e tc etc..

It was still very fast and was sleeper as hell because it didnt sound any different.

Of course I got greedy and wanted more power so I knew i needed a full exhaust..

Now to answer one of your questions.. I did not do ANY porting whatsoever with the manifold, turbo, o2, etc.

I used an MBC (from ebay too, see my review, should be nxs i believe) and it held boost steady as a rock.

But as soon as I got that full turboback, my boost instantly jumped, spiking, harder to control, etc.

 

[Calan]

1. I never saw anything that JFZERO ECLIPSE typed that sounded nasty or like he was looking down to you.

2. There is no reason to go with 560's unless you are running a bone stock ECU. Since you are getting it flashed, go ahead and get something like 650's. They are about the same price, and you won't have to worry about IDC's. One potential problem knocked down before it even pops up.

3. A s16g at 17-18 psi and no FMIC is gonna be hard pressed to meet your 300-325 goal repeatedly (if at all) without some way to tune the car to your conditions, once everything goes together. No matter how good the flash or custom chip is, you still need to tune the car when it is together and operating with your gas, altitude, engine condition, etc. etc.

4. The 1G BOV will be just fine for your goals, and well beyond them.

I agree with most of what everyone else has said. It sounds like you have a plan and are taking the right approach... but you are pushing everything so close to the edge that you aren't leaving any room for adjustment or flexibiliy. And that is ALWAYS needed on a modded DSM.

Just drop your goal to 260-270 awhp daily and you're all set.

 

[TheGreatGSX]

1. I never saw anything that JFZERO ECLIPSE typed that sounded nasty or like he was looking down to you.

2. There is no reason to go with 560's unless you are running a bone stock ECU. Since you are getting it flashed, go ahead and get something like 650's. They are about the same price, and you won't have to worry about IDC's. One potential problem knocked down before it even pops up.

3. A s16g at 17-18 psi and no FMIC is gonna be hard pressed to meet your 300-325 goal repeatedly (if at all) without some way to tune the car to your conditions, once everything goes together. No matter how good the flash or custom chip is, you still need to tune the car when it is together and operating with your gas, altitude, engine condition, etc. etc.

4. The 1G BOV will be just fine for your goals, and well beyond them.

I agree with most of what everyone else has said. It sounds like you have a plan and are taking the right approach... but you are pushing everything so close to the edge that you aren't leaving any room for adjustment or flexibiliy. And that is ALWAYS needed on a modded DSM.

Just drop your goal to 260-270 awhp daily and you're all set.

Thanks man, I appreciate it! I apologize then JFZERO.

I have no problem it being 260-270hp as long as it is capable of the 300 goal. I was told by several people with the SMIC piping replaced by better flowing pipes could handle 350hp. That may be wrong but I was going to attempt it and see how it went.
When it comes to the flashed ECU, once I get it I will log it and if anything needs adjusted or any further tuning is required I can send the flashed ECU back and the guy will adjust as needed with no charge until he gets it right.

With his experience and feedback from his other customers there hasn't been a time that took it being sent back more than once to get everything adjusted right.

If it's not true about the SMIC then I will just get a FMIC in the very near future once I get my s16g installed and just won't push it very hard until I do.

And if you could explain why there may be issues with IDC with the 560s but not the 650s? I was told the 650s would be overkill?

Thanks again!

 

[Calan]

When it comes to the flashed ECU, once I get it I will log it and if anything needs adjusted or any further tuning is required I can send the flashed ECU back and the guy will adjust as needed with no charge until he gets it right.

I think you may not be understanding the "making power process".

When someone burns a chip (or flashes an ECU) etc., they are just setting up very general parameters based on things like injector size, base fuel, pressure, etc. The idea is to program the ECU for new expected conditions, due to airflow and fuel changes resulting from mods. But the programmers have no way of knowing how accurate your MAF is, how much air your intake tract can actually flow (IC pipe diameter for example), how calibrated your injectors are, what shape your ignition is in, and on and on...

So the "making power process" actually involves two steps. The first is getting the chip or flashed ECU...which is really just another bolt-on mod no different than anything else. The second step is to get everything working together at it's optimum level...i.e. tuning. If you go big on everything and then set up an ECU with base parameters for those "big" mods, you have a good chance of making more power right out of the box...but it's still not going to be anywhere near what it would be after it is properly tuned.

With "small" mods like yours and a flashed ECU (or chip) but no tuning, it would be quite a stretch to have everything just line up perfectly to get to 325 hp. My guess is that you will drop everything in place and assuming everything works as expected, you're going to be around 250-280 hp.

Could it make more than that? Absolutely! But that extra 75-80hp (or 200hp if you are CB ) is hiding in the setup and can only be brought out through a lot of interative tuning. Adjust, log, repeat. You gain a few hp at a time by many iterations of "tweak the AFR here, take out 2% of fuel there, increase timing 1* at 5000rpms", etc...not with one or two "yank the ECU back out and send it in for a new flash"

If it's not true about the SMIC then I will just get a FMIC in the very near future once I get my s16g installed and just won't push it very hard until I do.

It's all about airflow. With a s16G you will have to crank the boost to flow enough air for power. And as you crank the boost on a small compressor, heat rises dramatically, and causes knock; no two ways about it. So you have to either remove that heat from the air charge entering the cylinders, or turn the boost back down to prevent the heat in the first place. With no FMIC, I really doubt that you are going to get to that 25psi you mentioned up there ^^^.

And if you could explain why there may be issues with IDC with the 560s but not the 650s? I was told the 650s would be overkill?

Mehhh...with a decent tuning solution or custom chip, there's no such thing as injector overkill. .

Given what I said above about not getting to 25psi due to heat soaking, you may not need bigger injectors. But now we are talking about what is the weakest link... fix the cooling issue so you can run more boost (more airflow), then you'll need more injector and more fuel. With the additional heat from the small turbo and no FMIC, you're going to be adding even more fuel to help with cooling.

Personally, I would go even bigger than 650's with a chip or flashed ECU...just for more flexibility. But 650's would work fine unless you want to run E85 or something in the future.

You may get lucky and hit 300hp right out of the box by just bolting everything up...but I highly doubt it.

EDIT:

I should of also mentoned - Making power is going to be highly dependent on the type and quality of fuel in your area, especially on a small turbo. Even if you have 93 octane available, it may be piss water compared to 93 in other areas (and even from day-to-day)...so you need more tuning headroom to wring the power out of it. If you only have 91 available, then the challenge to get to a hp goal on a particular setup is even greater.

 

[95talongirl]

Go with the 255 pump. I ran out of fuel with an e316g running a 190 pump @ 18psi. I figured that's the case since the injectors are 650's which should be enough! Also, do yourself a huge favor and ditch the SMIC, as mentioned above. I was seeing spark knock running 15psi thru the 16g on a side mount. Not cool! !