2.3L vs 2.0L spool finally put to the test

[biglady112]

Well I can personally say that I have seen first hand the difference in the way a stroker and 2.0L spool a specific turbo. I got a chance to tune Ludachris'(site owner) eclipse yesterday.

His car is powered by dsmlink. His basic mods are 2.3L Wiesco/Eagle, DNP tubular manifold, SCM6152, and all the necessary things for the car to run well. Well my friend daughter's car(590whp talon) has the exact same setup(only 950cc's instead of 850's and a 2.0L Wiesco/Eagle) and is(was) also powered by dsmlink. She now has AEM.

Well, the only significant difference in their cars is one is a 2.0L and one is a 2.3L. Well after getting Chris' car running well and after reviewing the logs and comparing notes, Chris' car and Tara's car spool and act just the same off and on boost. The both have the same turbo, intake/exhuast manifold's, cams, and fuel setup.

Both vehicles made 20psi by 4200-4300rpm. The off boost spool and power and drivability were identical. I went home and looked at her logs and there was absolutely no difference in the way the cars flowed, spooled, 60-90 times, or anything.

So in this particular test, at the same altitude(6000+ft) a 2.0L and 2.3L spooled the same. The other good news that I have is that Chris's car is now pumping out 51lbs/min on pump gas @20psi. This is a very safe tune for the conditions we had to tune. With some dyno time I am sure 2-3psi more and 3-5lbs/min can be found. Especially is we remove the air filter.

These turbos, the SCM61's are totally streetable. They spool early and make good power by just giving a little throttle. 4200rpm spool is not bad for a turbo with this kind of potential.

Steven

 

[CanadianTSi]

Weird, you would think the 300cc's would count for something...

PS 51lbs at only 20psi is

 

[herostar]

I think I might have some good info for everyone too...

I'm just up the interstate in Ft. Collins from you guys and I had a chance to do the same thing w/ my 60-1 and big28 turbos. I had them both on my stock 2.0 and then on my 2.3L w/ 8.5:1 compression and tuned using a pocket logger, egt, and safc.

My results were quite different.

On the stroker engine the Big28 reached full boost between 2350 adn 2500 (20psi) but it went by so fast I really couldn't tell. On the 2.0L I got full boost between 2800 and 3000 rpm. My 60-1 sees 21psi at just about 3500-3600rpm on the stroker motor. It saw 20psi at about 4100 on my 2.0L. I don't have DSMLink (coming soon) so I don't have airflow numbers for anyone. All this was done on a stock head and intake manifold.

 

[definitiveno]

Well, the only significant difference

feel free to BE specific.



Sounds like Chris may have a leak.....

 

[DSMjrv]

isnt 20 psi kinda weak for that turbo? i mean wouldnt u see more of a difference if the boost was pushed some more? or do i not know what i am talking about? whats the sweet spot for those turbos?

 

[XakEp]

Northglenn isnt at 6000 feet of elevation. Parker is just under that at 5800 feet.

My GT40 spools that fast - sounds like he might have a leak.

 

[herostar]

I never ran more than 22psi on the 2.0L with the 60-1, but on the 2.3L I would get 30psi at about 3600

 

[biglady112]

Well we were north of Denver Quinn. I am sure its near or over 6000ft. That doesn't matter. This thread was about 2.3L vs 2.0L. The only difference in the setups was just what I said. Displacement. Chris said he checked leaks and everything was ok. I also, didn't see or hear anything from what I could tell. Plus dsmlink had the air flow at idle right on. I am 99% sure there was no leaks.

I am not here to argue. These two cars are as close as you can get on mods. I thought it pretty neat how close they acted. This turbo shines at 28psi and more. Keep in mind gentlemen, this was on pump gas in heavy traffic. So I think until we get some dyno time, I will leave it where its at on pump gas. I don't want to go any further until the car is in a controlled environment. Either the track or dyno.

For you nay sayers, please keep negative comments to yourself. Just thought I would share some first hand experience with you guys. This is factual information about two motors at 20psi. I am a firm believer in the 2.0L. But this just makes me feel even better about them.

Steven

 

[JiggahMan]

It just makes no sense, there has to be something you/we're over looking. What about intercoolers? What type/brand do they both have? How big is their intercooler piping and exhaust piping?

(I'm not trying to argue, or start anything, just asking a couple questions because it seems odd. Also, other people have had hugely different real world experiences.. It just makes me think a lot. )

 

[biglady112]

Tara- 3" intercooler piping, 28x12x4 bar/plate intercooler, 3" exhuast(without cat)

Chris- 2.5" intercooler piping, 28x10.5x3.5 bar/plate intercooler, 3" exhuast(with cat)

Just don't want to bring negative thoughts and words to the board. Just more factual information. That is all I am trying to provide. Others may have seen otherwise(I believe what they say). My only experience with it yielded identical results. Don't want to be brash guys, just thought I would share some information and a suprise to myself as well.

I have seen what a 2.3L does a a 14b, why things were different here is beyond me. Just had to tell someone because it was interesting.

Steven

 

[XakEp]

Believe it or not, IC piping size can make a difference. I would say that a better test would be to put the turbos on the same car and see if there is a difference instead of using two different cars. Would be interesting.

 

[JiggahMan]

Believe it or not, IC piping size can make a difference. I would say that a better test would be to put the turbos on the same car and see if there is a difference instead of using two different cars. Would be interesting.

Yes, it does. The problem is that the way things are with their two cars; Chris should easily be getting faster spool up just because he has smaller piping, even a smaller intercooler. OK, I officially have no idea of what the difference is anymore.

 

[definitiveno]

I officially have no idea of what the difference is anymore.

compression, cilynder head ports, manifolds(runner leangth, opening, collectors), exhaust, O2 housing's, intercooler core, IC piping, maf setup, throttle body, waste gate (if not enough spring pressure), timing and fuel trimming.......


lots of stuff make a difference. All that would have to be identical for an intelligable comparison....putting two turbo's on the same car is the the only way to measure.

 

[drivemusicnow]

Its the cat. Catalytic converters make a fairly large (usually several hundred RPM) difference in spool. While they don't effect "peak horsepower" they do effect spool rather significantly

That said, I would still think their would be a more definitive difference with off boost response. Pretty interesting though, thanks for the info

 

[biglady112]

Same compression, near identical cylinder heads, both 1G intake manifolds, 1 stock o2 housing/1 o2 eliminator down pipe, cat/no cat, 28x10.5x3.5/28x12x4, blow through 3" GM MAF for both, 1G throttle body for both, same wastegate, 2.3L more timing/2.0L less timing, fuel trims the same(850 fic/950 fic).

Like I said, it was very interesting to me to. I think they are similar enough that I can compare them. But the off boost power is what really suprised me. They acted the same. Also with just the studder box, Chris made the same 3-4psi as she did. With anilag his car acted different, that was due to the difference in ignition timing I think though.

Strange yes, but it happened.

Steven

 

[definitiveno]

Stock o2 housing isn't doing any favors for a stroker/60-1. Was it atleast ported? How ported are your friends heads compared to chris's, I think he has a stage 5 1g with race ports....did your friend have a 1g or 2g head?


BTW, sorry for giving you third degree here. Just looking to logically explain this for myself. 2.3/4's shouldn't have the same street or boost manners really

 

[XakEp]

Seriously, slap the two turbos on the same car. 2.3s DO spool faster than 2.0s do.

Edit - vvv Holy Negativity Batman! vvv

 

[Burnett03]

The two cars need to have the exact same mods minus the 2.3motor to really make a statement like you are making man.. Your whole post has no support behind it and frankly im sick of seeing it on all the dsm boards

 

[VRMAN]

That would seriously concern me if I just put in a 2.3L stroker motor and the 2.0L was spooling at the same rpms. I personally see no need to run 3" IC piping, 2.5" is fine for any street driven car with a large turbo, if anything I would think that would hinder spool up time on the 2.0L. Keep us updated as you test Chris' system.

Side note: The technology on the 60-1 turbo is very old and the spool time-to-power ratio is subpar compared to a 56trim which makes more power at the same rpms and boost. Nobody in Sandy Eggo runs a 60-1 dinosaur, suprised you cats do.

 

[biglady112]

This is a 56 trim GT40 wheel on both cars. Not a 60-1. Tara is shooting for single digits next year, so the need for 3" intercooler piping is needed. She will be running a GT42. Already have the setup, manifold, wastegate and turbo. We were preparing for the future for her.

Steven

 

[VRMAN]

Understood. My 60-1 comment was more aimed at the guys who responded to this thread that are running 60-1s. The GT40 or even the GT35R are much better choices. But for the same price range, the SCM61 is the shizzle.

 

[Ludachris]

That would seriously concern me if I just put in a 2.3L stroker motor and the 2.0L was spooling at the same rpms.

I'm sure I still have some things to work on to see about helping spoolup. I haven't checked for leaks in a while. But if I can't knock off a few hundred rpm's it's not a total loss. The off-boost torque is quite nice to have on the street. I'll be happy either way.

 

[AWDer]

Hello,

It's Josh. I am going to have tomorrow afternoon free. I don't know if you are going to be free or not, but we can do a boost leak test and get a couple of those things off the list of reasons for spool up being slower.

If you feel like being risky with your expired tags , we can take it for a drive and get some of that A/F ratio worked out. You have so much more potential sitting there. It is fast now, but imagine another 50 horsepower, at least.

I love tuning these cars!

Josh

 

[Herbal Essences]

I was impressed at the meet, I'm interested in seeing the car in action. See ya at the meet!

 

[SlowImport]

How much more power did the 2.3 make over the 2.0?

is it worth the money?,
Josh