2.3 stock hp

[Injected]

I dont like car payments, its like slavery. I will go with the cheap route just to start off. Im really tired of the bus. For this month im going to get the clutch, and maybe the flywheel. Next month im going to pay for the rest of my motor and drop what I have so far in. For the end of next month im going to repair damaged parts. Im not done payin for my motor yet I have 2200 left to pay not including shipping. How is that? It might take a lil bit more or less time depends. Also can I drive my car around? No more than 18 miles a week. Or do I need to go with the cheap route setup? I know not to race anyone, not to hit the gas to hard. Thanx

No one has ever tried to run a 2.3 on the stock fuel setup, but I can tell you that you will max out the turbo and fuel system. HOWEVER, since the stock BOV leaks a little above stock, you may want to switch back to it to prevent overboosting. I would suggest picking up a boost controller and turning it all the way down. Then avoid heavy-footed or spirited driving until you get at least everything in the first list and higher flowing intake and exhaust systems.

For your brakes:

1. Slotted rotors, front and back: any from here $334-661
2. Performance brake pads (same web page): $128-276
3. SS brake line kit: $120
4. Motul synthetic brake fluid: $9

Total: $591-1066

 

[Dende00]

Can a shop turn down my boost? I dont think I will have a controller by time I drop the motor in. I am going to drop in the ACT 2600, and or a flywheel also. I know I need the dsmlink for self tuning. Injected when u say the motor is gonna max out the fuel system. Do u mean it will use the gas up faster than it normally would? For the BOV I have no clue where my stock one is. So I cant use the one that vents to the air? I only plan on driving 6 or 7 blocks from the shop to my parking. Is that alright to do? I remember I have another question. I notice that on slowboy racing the 3500 etc, comes with clutch, lines, and etc. But I notice that ACT 2600 kit, just shows a pic of the clutch. Does that mean that ACT 2600 kit only has the clutch no lines, and etc.

 

[staticbrainwash]

You aren't going to break that motor in properly while venting that bov. It's messing up the AF ratio the ecu uses, therefore at decel you're going to run SUPER rich. Which isn't good.

As for the clutch you'll have to wait for injected on that one. But i've heard very good things about the SBR clutch, and thats cool it's a whole kit.

Invest in a boost controller and gauge RIGHT AWAY. A controller (manual boost controller) will cost you around 50 bucks. And a gauge and pod is maybe 100. Actually. . . http://www.importevolution.com/product_info.php?cPath=91&products_id=2753

Thats what you need, and it's a nice pretty package!

And by maxing out the system he means that the motor will be flowing more air into it than the car can compensate with fuel. Therefore running scary lean, which could torch the motor. For example, you've got stock 450cc injectors feeding a car that needs say. . . 650's. Those 450's will be "maxed out" and not feeding the motor with enough fuel.

 

[Dende00]

Would it be easier if I got a electric boost control, ot just stick with the manual for now, since it will save me money. Its a lil pricey but I was looking at HKS EVC boost controller, or maybe I can get that at a later time. Also what if I get 1000cc or 950cc injector can I save my motor from not being torched? I would have to tune my car to recognize the change of injectors? I really need to know because I plan on ordering some parts end of this week. Thanx

 

[staticbrainwash]

you DO NOT need injectors that big to break in that motor. Someone will have to help you out for sizes, but i would assume 850's would be pretty good when paired with DSMlink. Then just set up the car to recognize the 850's with the link and you might even be able to get away with running one of the "demo" baseline maps. Just make sure your fuel system is good when you do all this. Ie, change your fuel filter.

Just stick with a MBC. It's more accurate than an EBC and easier to use once you figure it out.

 

[Dende00]

What baseline map? I dont think I will be able to get dsmlink until the end of next month. I will have before then a clutch kit (maybe a flywheel), MBC (the one from Static link), I need injectors also. But I will not have dsmlink right away. So what can I do? When I am finish paying for the motor I will be free to get a lot more parts.

 

[staticbrainwash]

Pick up the Link once the motor is payed for. But for now i'd say thats pretty good for planning. Clutch, mbc set-up, and injectors. That will put you on your way for now until you get the motor and the Link.

 

[Dende00]

For the ecu, should I take it out to be socket? Or should I just go with a package with dsmlink that comes with a socket ecu? If u know also where I can get one in a package. Thanx

 

[Injected]

If you put in 950's (which I recommend for your power goals) and no fuel control manager, like DSMLink, then the stock ECU will think that you have 450's in and will control them accordingly, creating a tremendously rich situation. Definately at least get the MBC. If you don't get a new flywheel, make sure to get yours checked for proper step before installation.

For furthur clarification about outflowing the stock fuel system and why you cannot just throw in larger ones, you will flow enough air with the 2.3 to max out the flow of the T25 (meaning that the exhaust will spin the turbo as fast as it will go) and the stock fuel injectors will not be able to flow enough fuel to maintain a good air to fuel ratio. Running lean will create unsafe temperatures and detonation, which will kill a turbocharged engine faster than anything. With larger fuel injectors, you need a way to compensate how long the injector pulse is, which you use DSMLink for when you get it, but not before. If you baby the car severely, then you will not outflow your engine, but it is critical that you control the air-fuel ratio. DETONATION KILLS!

As for the clutch, I assume that you are talking about this page, but if you can't find the answer you are looking for, call SBR at 724-349-8417.

As for the boost controller, I like the GReddy Profec II Spec B is good, the new Type-S unit has nothing but positive reviews and is based on the old Spec B's. It's a hell of a lot cheaper than the HKS and scored higher on the testing in SCC's comparison tests (on a DSM as a matter of fact).

Basically, you will be the first I have ever heard of anyone even attemting to run a 2.3 on the stock system, so you will need to be SEVERELY careful about detonation. If you open it up even once, you will chance destroying the engine.

Anything else for now?

 

[staticbrainwash]

Wow, and i thought i was having a hard time just deciding what i wanted from a 2.0 motor. (going with a buschur stage 1)

I wish you the best of luck man with all of this, and give you mad super tyte dope stupid props if you pull this off.

Just remember, if you need anything else just let us know. We will help as best we can without being there to set stuff up.

 

[Dende00]

Im feeling lil #### right now. I just might flatbed it from the shop, it would cost me 60. Better safe than sorry, but I might change my mine. I have a drive to try new things. Im gonna get the MBC from Static link or a turbo x one. The ACT 2600 6- puck how is that for the clutch? What is puck? Where can I find 950cc injectors? If I have enough money (doubt) I will get a ACT flywheel also. Props would go to you guys also, really its your project. Just my idea. Trust if I do pull this off this car will be in the spotlight, none of these around where I live. Thanx

 

[staticbrainwash]

Just get the gauge/MBC kit i linked you to.

Since it's going to be a street car just get a street disc. I don't think you really need a 6-puck.

Injectors can be had at a few places. http://www.dsmtuners.com/parts/default.php?cPath=3_144_68

Thats a good place to start looking. The favorites are usually Percision, Fuel injector clinic, and RC engineering.

 

[Injected]

I agree that you should run a street disc in your clutch setup. A puck style is grabby and has harsh clutch engagement. It will snap you foreward at every stop and between just about every shift. Street discs allow for smooth engagment.

Have you orded these yet?

1. Boost gauge
2. Gauge mount
3. Boost Controller
4. Clutch w/ street disc

That is all you plan to run for now. I personally like the Fuel Injector Clinic 950's which can be found many places. Everything in the list above is available from SBR (not a plug, but you were looking at their clutch package anyhow and they have the new Stewart Warner guages that match the stock very well).

Your order next week should be the following:

1. 950's
2. DSMLink (you may need to send them your ECU for socket service)
3. Fuel pump (250 lph should be more than enough)
4. Fuel pressure regulation setup

From there you will be able to set up your base idle fuel pressure and begin tuning. Plan to spend hours understanding/tuning this thing. DSMLink is great for beginner tuners and is a very powerful tuning device.

 

[Dende00]

A lil bit of prob, I am broke for now until next payday. So I got to hold off until 07/25/06, a bunch of unexpected events. I have 300 to last me for 3 weeks u can say. But it does help me to have a list of parts I should get each week. Dsmlink will be a bit of a prob to get with all the other things (its not cheap). About dsmlink, is it easier to send them my ECU, or just find a package with a socket ECU. Can anyone tell me how to get to my ECU in a 2gen? I have Chilton repair manual. I dont see where it is in the engine compartment. Thanx

 

[JOEY A]

Man you pretty much are doing everything half ass backwards, sorry to sound like a asshole.



What you should have done is a a basic eagle rods, with weiscos etc just a basic mild built motor. Its proven setup and you can run it with all your stock stuff.


Now with a stroker with your limited knowledge your getting into all kindas stuff you may not know about. You might actaully hurt the car based on lack of knowledge of your setup. If you notice most peope go with a intake manifold, cams,large turbo all feul mods, DSM link or standalone, built trannys etc.......

Its not as easy as people think it is, thats why I just stayed with a basic built motor that I can use for more power later on but still work with what I have right now.

 

[staticbrainwash]

I think he knows what he's getting into. But thats why this site is here, we're all trying to help him run this thing well even with limited knowledge.

Just think about how much he will learn though in the course of this. It's all good as long as he listens to us and finds a good dsm tuning buddy somewhere around him.

 

[Injected]

Man you pretty much are doing everything half ass backwards, sorry to sound like a asshole.



What you should have done is a a basic eagle rods, with weiscos etc just a basic mild built motor. Its proven setup and you can run it with all your stock stuff.


Now with a stroker with your limited knowledge your getting into all kindas stuff you may not know about. You might actaully hurt the car based on lack of knowledge of your setup. If you notice most peope go with a intake manifold, cams,large turbo all feul mods, DSM link or standalone, built trannys etc.......

Its not as easy as people think it is, thats why I just stayed with a basic built motor that I can use for more power later on but still work with what I have right now.

While I agree that he is doing it backwards, it doesn't take as much to support the 2.3 as most people think even though it was never offered in our cars.

Think of it this way: he is building a stock 2.3 and is only getting the minimum modifications to support it. It will be as if he has a larger engine to start, with the same crappy stock intake and exhaust. While this seems counter-intuitive, it allows him to have the engine that he wants this build instead of building a 2.0 then deciding he wants more. Every modification he does will net greater power gains over the 2.0. He won't need a race tranny due to the lower rpm's he will see and no cams to support flow in that range. He can then optimize his buildup around the 2.3 instead of the 2.0, which means he is not building a system to support a 2.0 and ending up with a 2.3, he is starting with a 2.3 and ending up with a 2.3.

 

[Dende00]

Joey A I do get what u are saying, but I just wanna get it right once. I made to many mistakes in the past with buying used 2.0. I want the 2.3 liter because its a bigger powerful motor, really I dont know much about it. Even if I dont know much, reading these forums, and big help coming from Injected and Staticbrainwash I promise you I will pull this off. Im aiming for 6 months project deadline, but if its longer it is what it is. I wanted this car since I was a lil kid (just the body I liked). I found out its more than meets the eye. I am going to bring this car back to life with a 2.3. This is besides the point but where is my ecu, in the 95 talon. I wanna take it out. Also I am able to afford a boost control this at least right now. Tell me which one to get turbo x MBC or Static link MBC?

 

[staticbrainwash]

Get the one i linked you to. Especially since you're going to need a boost gauge and pod anyway with an MBC. So why not get all 3 all at once. That and the Joe P. is one of the best MBC's out there.

 

[Dende00]

Get the one i linked you to. Especially since you're going to need a boost gauge and pod anyway with an MBC. So why not get all 3 all at once. That and the Joe P. is one of the best MBC's out there.

Thanx bro Im going to order that now. But I have one question about controling the boost, can u turn the turbo so low its like its not even there? I know Im a super noob.

 

[staticbrainwash]

It's easy. You just back the adjustment screw all the way out. You'll run VERY low boost (for breaking in your 2.3 i assume).

I'll take pics on how to hook everything up once you get it, although some of it might be different since i'm a 1g. But at least you'll get the idea.

 

[Injected]

Thanx bro Im going to order that now. But I have one question about controling the boost, can u turn the turbo so low its like its not even there? I know Im a super noob.

To answer your question simply, no you cannot. To explain why:

The way a boost controller works is by regulating (either mechanically or electronically) the amount of pressure that reaches the waste-gate actuator, which in turn opens the waste-gate flapper. The waste-gate flapper sits above the turbine (the exhaust side blades of the turbo) and is just a door that will open, re-routing through a hole in the 02 sensor housing and into the down-pipe, bypassing the turbine, thus not adding to the spooling of the turbo. Especially with the 2.3, you will not be able to divert enough exhaust to prevent enough of it from spooling the turbo. Better than any boost controller, you could tie open wastegate causing constant diversion of exhaust around the turbo. Every waste-gate actuator actuates when it sees a certain pressure (I can't remember what the 2G actuator's is) to cut off the boost. When you 'turn the boost up' with a boost controller, what you are doing is leaking off some of the pressure that the waste-gate sees. The waste-gate may only see 10 psi and remain closed, when there actually is 20 psi generated in the compressor side. A manual and electronic boost controller do the same thing, but a manual controller is much harder to set and adjust and will not hold the boost or prevent spiking (no learning function) nearly as well as an electronic boost controller. I have experience with both and I will never run a MBC ever again. I one had on my first car and it was great having the ability to adjust things like gain and levels from inside the car where the boost gauge is. EBC's are the way to go if you can get one. One can be had for very cheap. Check the classifieds for a used Profec Spec B II, which has a digital readout you can tune your boost with.

You will still need to go easy on it no matter what you do. Also, if you tie back the waste-gate actuator, you will be able to save your cash for an electronic boost controller, which as I mentioned earlier, is worth it.

 

[Dende00]

Inject I think what your talking about with tie back the wastegate actuator Andre at Pina is going to give them (shop I drop it in)a setup that I will be safe with. I still want my setup, so im going to use this shop setup until I complete our setup. This is going to be one of the fastest poor man beast built. A reflection of my vanity. That setup wont max the turbo?

 

[Injected]

Inject I think what your talking about with tie back the wastegate actuator Andre at Pina is going to give them (shop I drop it in)a setup that I will be safe with. I still want my setup, so im going to use this shop setup until I complete our setup. This is going to be one of the fastest poor man beast built. A reflection of my vanity. That setup wont max the turbo?

Yes, I am talking about tying back the waste-gate actuator.

Other than that, I cannot understand the rest of the post. Can you read it out loud and rewrite it to reflect what you are trying to convey?

 

[Dende00]

Oh my post was just giving one reason why I would want a to build my car like this thats all. " Read it out loud" , . The rest I asked if the tie back setup will not max out the turbo. I want our setup for the car so I will just go with the tie back for now. This should be a temp setup right? Can you tell me where my ECU is? Also if my ECU is eprom I wont have to send in my ECU to dsmlike right?