2.3 stock hp

[Dende00]

Im havin built right now a 2.3 liter motor, street head. Its bein done at Pina Motorsport. I really dont know anythin bout my car. I just intalled one thin in it a air filter, u see im that lost. The 2.3 how much hp would it have stock? Also with a 2.0 stock turbo. Im just startin out buildin my 95 Talon tsi awd. Wha the difference and potential of a 2.3 and a 2.4 motor? Thanx

 

[Injected]

Im havin buildt right now a 2.3 liter motor, street race head. Its bein done at Pina Motorsport. I really dont know anythin bout my car. I just intalled one thin in it a air filter, u see im that lost. The 2.3 how much hp would it have stock? Also with a 2.0 stock turbo. Im just startin out buildin my 95 Talon tsi awd. Wha the difference and potential of a 2.3 and a 2.4 motor? Thanx

Sorry to say, but that doesn't really make any sense.

A 2.0 running the stock turbo will be limited by the flow capabilities of the notoriously undersized T-25. This limit applies to the 2.3 as the amount of power you make is directly related to the amount of air you flow. The 2.3 and 2.4 are the same sized engine. It is common in the DSM nomenclature to refer to a stroker setup as a 2.3 and a head/block hybrid as a 2.4. There is no such thing as a ‘stock 2.3’ since the engine never existed as a factory combination. If you are wondering what the maximum horsepower you can attain on a 2.3 with the T-25, refer to the beginning of this post.

Having this much done to your car with so little knowledge of what is going on is very dangerous. You need to have a lot of support for a stroker setup to ensure that it is getting fed the proper amount of air and fuel at the right time. I would suggest getting AEM’s EMS or DSM Link and find someone who knows what they are doing, plus a whole plethora of other supporting modifications such as, but not limited to larger fuel injectors, upgraded fuel lines, fuel pressure regulator, a full intake including a front mount intercooler, a full exhaust including 3” 02 sensor housing and high flow cat (to allow your engine to breathe easily as you don’t want to strain your new engine). Your stock clutch will not hold much more power than stock, so you will need a new clutch.

Look to spend about as much as you are on your engine twice more.

Beyond that, how did you get past rookie status (no offense)?

 

[Dende00]

Sorry to say, but that doesn't really make any sense.

A 2.0 running the stock turbo will be limited by the flow capabilities of the notoriously undersized T-25. This limit applies to the 2.3 as the amount of power you make is directly related to the amount of air you flow. The 2.3 and 2.4 are the same sized engine. It is common in the DSM nomenclature to refer to a stroker setup as a 2.3 and a head/block hybrid as a 2.4. There is no such thing as a ‘stock 2.3’ since the engine never existed as a factory combination. If you are wondering what the maximum horsepower you can attain on a 2.3 with the T-25, refer to the beginning of this post.

Having this much done to your car with so little knowledge of what is going on is very dangerous. You need to have a lot of support for a stroker setup to ensure that it is getting fed the proper amount of air and fuel at the right time. I would suggest getting AEM’s EMS or DSM Link and find someone who knows what they are doing, plus a whole plethora of other supporting modifications such as, but not limited to larger fuel injectors, upgraded fuel lines, fuel pressure regulator, a full intake including a front mount intercooler, a full exhaust including 3” 02 sensor housing and high flow cat (to allow your engine to breathe easily as you don’t want to strain your new engine). Your stock clutch will not hold much more power than stock, so you will need a new clutch.

Look to spend about as much as you are on your engine twice more.

Beyond that, how did you get past rookie status (no offense)?

Like I sid I know nothin bout this car. I live in a apartment first off, and I dont have a shop to work in. I check back, I should of said 2.3 liter race motor/ street head. I know I have a lot to do. Well its to late to turn back now. Wha should be the first upgrade to have this motor runnin smooth? All this is gonna be a lot of money I understand that. I just like to get done right already, so dats why I took a 2.3 liter setup. In the future I want a racin tranny. As for the clutch wha should I buy? About the status rank I have no idea, I guess prob from how long I have been a member. Thanx

 

[Injected]

Like I sid I know nothin bout this car. I live in a apartment first off, and I dont have a shop to work in. I check back, I should of said 2.3 liter race motor/ street head. I know I have a lot to do. Well its to late to turn back now. Wha should be the first upgrade to have this motor runnin smooth? All this is gonna be a lot of money I understand that. I just like to get done right already, so dats why I took a 2.3 liter setup. In the future I want a racin tranny. As for the clutch wha should I buy? About the status rank I have no idea, I guess prob from how long I have been a member. Thanx

Alright, I'll help you out as much as possible, but please spend a little more time typing your replies so I can better understand your predicament. We need to start by getting your goals. What exactly are your goals with the car? Street, drag, autocross, dyno-queen, flipping upside down in a ditch (I've seen it). As soon as you set your goals, be it times, hp figures or whatever, we will know what direction to go.

 

[Dende00]

I think I want it to be a wicked street car 400 or more whp, I wanna die. I want my car so wicked the ground trembles when I roll. I live in a town of honda, and a few popular cars. I have the only awd Talon around im sure of it. Also if I can make it a drag also that would be coo. Well besides a new motor I should tell u this my entire car I have is a death trap. My seat is bein held down by hose clamps, the metal ones u screw to tighten the band. My car is a pimp my ride special, but I wanna fix her, not sell her. So please I need help in buildin an entire car. I know its a lot of money but I live wit parent, single, so u get wha im sayin. The motor is the first thing, so that I can stop takin the bus to work, it sux. I should have my car runnin again in bout a 5 to 6 weeks. My talon right now best upgrade I have is a fluidine radiator, weapon r air filter, and a turbo x blow off valve, it vents to the air. I know this is a no for performance but if u know a way I can keep it with power, if not i will just lose it. Thanx

 

[brodiedehass]

He is grandfathered in as a proven member. I am thinking he is not familiar with the sites grammar standards.

 

[Dende00]

He is grandfathered in as a proven member. I am thinking he is not familiar with the sites grammar standards.

Well, I just read the rules of the forums. I know that ghetto talk is not allowed. My grammar I have to work on it.

 

[staticbrainwash]

Wow. . . Were to start.

Alright, maintenience is the key here since it sounds as though your car could be considered compact "hooptie". Fix the seat, you don't want to push power and not have something to hold your ass where it needs to be. Second, make sure when the motor goes in that everything else is alright as well, Aka, power steering lines, all belts and hoses, plugs and wires ect. (tune up type stuff). Then look at tires and brakes and suspension if needed. Basically, you want a well running up to snuff car before you even think about modding. But since you have the 2.3 going in, you might need a few other things just to get the motor to run right.

I don't know the exact requirements to run a 2.3 as a base level, but if you're looking into building a "monster" street car you will need (in no peticular order), Intake - better filter (K&N is a favorite), intake pipe, intercooler pipes (or a front mount intercooler depending on your inital turbo or future plans). Exhaust - Nice flowing o2 housing (ported 2g housing or evo3 housing work very well), ported 2g manifold or evo3 manny or sbr HUGE manny, 2.5-3" or full 3" downpipe, Test pipe or high flow cat if need be, 3" catback of your choice. Fuel and management - this is where you need to seriously asess your goals. You could be looking at anything from an safc and 650cc's, to 800cc's monsters and a dsmlink.

Look into the "tuning guide" on the home page of this site. That will help a lot. But i assume that you will need a bit out of that to begin with just to run the 2.3 well.

Also, For god sakes please recirculate that BOV or get one that can, OR get a maft-GMmas setup to vent properly.

PS, I apologize if any of this is mis-information and feel free to correct me if need be. It's really late here and my tired brain doesn't think to well.

 

[Injected]

I think I want it to be a wicked street car 400 or more whp, I wanna die. I want my car so wicked the ground trembles when I roll. I live in a town of honda, and a few popular cars. I have the only awd Talon around im sure of it. Also if I can make it a drag also that would be coo. Well besides a new motor I should tell u this my entire car I have is a death trap. My seat is bein held down by hose clamps, the metal ones u screw to tighten the band. My car is a pimp my ride special, but I wanna fix her, not sell her. So please I need help in buildin an entire car. I know its a lot of money but I live wit parent, single, so u get wha im sayin. The motor is the first thing, so that I can stop takin the bus to work, it sux. I should have my car runnin again in bout a 5 to 6 weeks. My talon right now best upgrade I have is a fluidine radiator, weapon r air filter, and a turbo x blow off valve, it vents to the air. I know this is a no for performance but if u know a way I can keep it with power, if not i will just lose it. Thanx

I totally agree with Static, you need to get everything right on your car to begin with. What do you need to put the seat back into position, and why was it out? Make sure that your brakepads and rotors are in good shape. Change all filters and fluids with the new engine.

You know what, I think this may be easier if you just give me a dollar figure on what you are willing to spend and I will get you a list of parts. Because of the unorthodox upgrade path you have chosen, some things need to be installed with the engine (like the clutch for example).

I would say that the FIRST thing you need to do when you drop that 2.3 in, after fixing everything else that is wrong with the car, is to ensure that your boost is turned way down, or disabled for until you can get everything working and ready to support that power. If you out flow your fuel system, you will run very lean and melt those nice new pistons, probably destroying the entire engine and turbo. I am trying to help you avoid this by getting you knowledgable enough not to blow up your car.

Please list anything else that needs to be done to the car that you can think for regular or irregular maintenance.

You can vent your blow-off valve by running what is know as a 'blow-through' setup. It actually is a great way to increase flow and tunabiltiy for more power.

You will need to install clutch when you drop the engine, so go ahead and order one. With your power goals, you will need at least an ACT 2600. You want a street setup, so smooth clutch engagement will mean getting street disc. There is also the SlowBoy Racing 3500 which has a carbon-kevlar disc material. Fidanza also has a new carbon-Kevlar clutch, but I haven't heard anthing about it.

 

[Dende00]

I should of said this before that this would be my third motor. The first one that came in the car was no good, it made noise. My second one I ordered from some overseas company had a leaking head gasket. Then after that was repaired, I think I just beat it into the ground, it still starts but sounds like marbles being dropped down metal pipes. Drives also but stalls and boost no more. My seat for my deathtrap came with one of the brackets holding the seat down broken. Then one day I hit the gas, and I was looking at the ceiling. It was funny more than frightening. My brakes and suspension and electrical need some work. My brakes I know I need like brembo or something better. My suspension needs to be better, because it sounds like an old bed when I hit a bump. My car electrical needs work my gauge cluster light stop working, its not a fuse. I have a few other things to work on for the electrical parts of my car. Funny story I drove without wipers in a snow storm and in rain storms, I got em fixed now. Injected u talked about turning off my boost until I get everything up to par. How would I do that? When I think about working on my car in my head there is a hamster running on a wheel. Thanx staticbrainwash also. I forgot also my wheel fell off my car once, broke a control arm and an axle. It was when I was goin slow, car stop dead in the middle of the street. Also my mech was a lyin bastard, I paid for things I shouldn't have. Thats why I wanna know from people that is hands on with my car. Im only gonna use a mech for adding upgrades to my car.

 

[Injected]

I should of said this before that this would be my third motor. The first one that came in the car was no good, it made noise. My second one I ordered from some overseas company had a leaking head gasket. Then after that was repaired, I think I just beat it into the ground, it still starts but sounds like marbles being dropped down metal pipes. Drives also but stalls and boost no more. My seat for my deathtrap came with one of the brackets holding the seat down broken. Then one day I hit the gas, and I was looking at the ceiling. It was funny more than frightening. My brakes and suspension and electrical need some work. My brakes I know I need like brembo or something better. My suspension needs to be better, because it sounds like an old bed when I hit a bump. My car electrical needs work my gauge cluster light stop working, its not a fuse. I have a few other things to work on for the electrical parts of my car. Funny story I drove without wipers in a snow storm and in rain storms, I got em fixed now. Injected u talked about turning off my boost until I get everything up to par. How would I do that? When I think about working on my car in my head there is a hamster running on a wheel. Thanx staticbrainwash also. I forgot also my wheel fell off my car once, broke a control arm and an axle. It was when I was goin slow, car stop dead in the middle of the street. Also my mech was a lyin bastard, I paid for things I shouldn't have. Thats why I wanna know from people that is hands on with my car. Im only gonna use a mech for adding upgrades to my car.

1. Fix your current problems... The dash lights are replaceable. Just make sure that the dimmer switch is turned all the way up (happend to my sister, funny as hell!). For brakes, just go with stock sized Brembo replacement rotors (sloted, not drilled) and performance brake pads (you'll spend $150-200 for a good set of pads). Larger brakes don't mean better stopping always. Larger brakes are for dissipating heat better and for endurance braking. Invest in stainless steel brakelines for better brake feel.

2. You can stop your car from generating much boost by using a boost controller (which you will want anyway) and turing it all the way down. You can also manually tie the wastegate actuator to the open position. Really, you could go to an exaust shop and have them make a 'turbo-delete pipe' that will bolt to your manifold and 02 sensor housing, then put a filter on your upper intercooler pipe and run naturally aspirated until you are ready to move on. You can also install the turbo and run the filter on the upper intercooler pipe the same, but I wouldn't want to destroy a turbo on an untested and completely untuned engine.

3. 400 whp, which is 500 engine hp with a 20% drivetrain loss, will require 984.38 cc/min injectors running at .8 duty cycle. This means that at 80% of the maximum flow rate (which is the generally accepted safety margin) you will be flowing enough fuel to produce the amount of power specified (500 hp) given a .6 BSFC (look it up). I used a calculator I wrote a while back. It's a nice little javascript page with all sorts of calculators for anyone to download and use for free. It is found in the 'How-To' section and here is a hyperlink to it. Use it to help you learn the correlations between flow and power. Go ahead and order 1000cc injectors. In order to allow your car to know that you have changed the injector size you will need some form of fuel control. I like DSMLink. It is a powerful near-full standalone management system that is aimed more toward the do-it-yourselfer. With these two things in hand, you need to do the 'fuel-pump rewire' modification, and a larger fuel pump to push all of that fuel to the engine. Since your car is in pretty rough condition, new fuel lines wouldn't be such a bad idea. If you want a full setup, some of the DSM-specific vendors have full fuel solutions, and you should give them a call. Be wary though, their job is to sell you something and you probably don't know which vendors to trust. Slowboy has one, so does FFWD Connection. Look around.

That's enough for now, I'll get back to you later (Futurama is comming on)...

 

[staticbrainwash]

Honestly man, unless you have the money to just overhaul the whole car. . . Just get a new one. That doesn't seem anywhere near worth the time and effort and money. Especially if you're not doing all the work, thats going to be PRICEY.

If you really want the whole thing fixed, we'll try to help with what we can, but whoo. . . I dunno. Im scared for you.

 

[Dende00]

I dont have nothing else really to do with my money. I really dont wanna get rid of my car and buy another. Its my first car, also I learned how to drive stick on it. I got hit by a armour car in this, 360 and 180 in the snow. A few other chaotic stuff. I didnt drive it long but for the time I did, I really dont want anything else. I even looked at it today, as ugly as it sounds, and dirty as it is I dont wanna drive nothing else. Im serious about that unless it was an Evo. I do understand your concern, but im attached to this car. Im looking to get this car were I want it to be 6 months tops.

 

[staticbrainwash]

I understand how you feel about the car, and i guess the biggest thing to ask if you're going to keep it is if the body is at least in good shape when it's washed and waxed.

Also, 6 months is not a very long time to get it all together. I just hope you know what kind of money we're talking about here to make your car the beast you want.

 

[Dende00]

If it needs more time I guess im gonna have to deal then. The body is a little hurt on drivers side, I plan on fixing that next spring, because of the snow and all, I might change my mind though not a sure decision. How much am I looking at here? I would guess just for parts alone around 12g. To tell you the truth I have nothing but time, as long as I can drive it while doing upgrades thats fine with me. What turbo is good for 2.3? I know that turbo is the last thing I should worry about, but I still I need to know what I should be using to run a 2.3 the way I want.

 

[staticbrainwash]

Don't think about a turbo AT ALL right now. You need to get the motor in the car and running before you even get close to turbos. I'd maybe get a 14b or small16g to break in the motor, or an evo316g with low boost.

Since you already are getting the motor thats out of the cost. This is going to be SUPER rough price estimate, and JUST for upgrades.

Tranny- ~2k
Clutch- ~3-400
fmic-700-1k
intake and k&n - 100-300
dsmlink - depends on if you have eprom or not already
maft set-up - 300-ish (so you can vent properly)
big exhaust manny - 220-ish (or port your 2g manny out big)
o2 housing - port the 2g, get an evo3 o2, or tubular
turboback - 500-1k (depending on pipe material, cat, flanges, muffler, and brand)
boost gauge w/pod - 100
fuel pump - 100
injectors - 200-ish
logger/gauges - depends on kind of gauge and brand
water injection (optional but good idea) - 200-500

http://www.dsmtuners.com/sub.php?page=2gtupgrades
Go through that link too.

When this motor goes in, are you having a shop put it in and tune it up? Or are they just . . . putting it in and sending you on your way?

 

[Dende00]

I think they are going to drop it in and send me on my way. But if I have to tune it right away I will. Also, I would do some minor work myself, nothing having to do with motor parts. I also have to put on the clutch when I have the motor dropped in, Injected says. About the clutch should I get a full package with line, and other upgrade parts. Or just the clutch or it doesn't matter? I have a 95 talon, for the dsmlink I read that its ecu comes with eprom, but I have to send my ecu in so it can be socket. Did I not understand what I read about the 95 ecu? My car is a 95 but was made in 94. But I have no clue how to take out my ecu.

 

[staticbrainwash]

Under the center of the dash behind the radio is where your ecu is. . . Don't quote me on that because thats where it is on my 1g. Just pull it out and look. But if you get the dsmlink package i think 2g's have the option of just buying an ecu with the package, already socketed and chipped. I'd have to look again to make sure though.

Yes, clutch goes in with the motor. You don't need to worry about all the other upgrade parts right away with the clutch, just get the clutch and maybe a flywheel.

What i would do honestly, is find a good dsm shop around you once the car gets the motor in. Take it over there and have them tune up the car and maybe help you figure out everything you will need to run that 2.3 well enough for the break in period. Then you can start upping power, but MAKE SURE you break in the motor. That means heat cycling the motor before you drive it, change the oil, drive 50miles, change the oil, 100miles, change oil, 200, change oil, 500, change oil, 1k change oil. It's a lengthy process and you really need to have patience with the new motor or you will just chunk it and be wasting money on ANOTHER motor.

PS, Fill out your vehicle profile. That way down the road people can help you out without having to describe what you have every time.

 

[Injected]

Dende, I am going to have to agree with Geoff that this is not going to be easy or inexpsensive by any means. HOWEVER his pricing is a little off. We can get you up and running without a lot of that stuff if you can take it easy. ALSO, there are guys here who know what they are doing who take 9-16 months to do what you are talking about. If you do it in six, then you will have learned a tremendous amount in a short time, which I hope you are capable of.

You will need the aformentioned fuel upgrades. Here is a price list on what it would cost to get you up and running (cheap route):

1. DSMLink - $610
2. Fuel Injector Clinic Injectors (950cc) - $380
3. Walbro Fuel Pump - $100
4. B&M Fuel Pressure Regulator - $60
5. B&M Fuel Pressure Gauge - $35
6. Mr. Gasket 6AN fuel filter - $60
7. Clutch - $390
8. K&N Air Filter - $70
Total = $1705

You can run this setup to set up your basic fuel setup and drive it daily. You will need to tie back your wastegate actuator and this assumes that you are replacing all maintenance parts you should when you have the engine out like you do, such as spark plugs, wires, waterpump, etc. With this setup, you should drive the car like it was broken (NO hard acceleration until you get the fuel perfect, except for getting the rings set). If you were going a little furthuer, or if you want to drive the car more like you want, I would suggest adding all of the following:

1. Aeromotive Fuel Rail - $170
2. SS Fuel Lines (tank to rail) - $289
3. Dejon Tool 3" 02 elim Downpipe - $275
4. Boost Controller - $50-350 (manual or electronic)
5. SBR Exhaust Manifold - $300
6. TiAL Wastgate - $200
7. Your choice Cat-back - $300-600
8. High flow Cat (ready to bolt up) - $120
9. Dejon FMIC and all piping (you could use your BOV - $800
10. SBR Complete MAF kit - $409
11. Dejon intake pipe for blow-thru maf setup - $105
12. Turbo (20G+) - ~$900-1300
13. High flow intake manifold - $500
14. Catch can - $50
Total - $4468-5168

It would do you good to add $1000 to cover shipping and miscellaneous costs like gaskets, fittings, tools, etc.

Thus far we are talking about $7273-7973 on top of however much you spent on the 2.3 and head. There is still room for improvement, which means more cost. Beyond that, you will still be driving a car that may be fast after a long while and severe frustration (not to mention additional expenses if anything unforseeable happens or if anything goes wrong). Let me take a second to say something since I have spent a lot of time on this post alone.

In all honesty, it may be hard to let go of the car because it means so much, but you wouldn't be alone. I searched the country for my first DSM and flew to Ft. Lauderdale, Florida (I'm in Houston) to get my first one. She was beautiful (1997 White GSX) and I took very good care of her. Only the best parts and proper installation. I was rearended by some kid with a driver's license and a cell phone (bad combination) and it totaled the car. I lost a friend that day, and while I could have fixed it with a lot of time and money, she would have never been the same. I searched the country again, and found a red 98 GSX in Chicago. I had this one shipped to me and have never felt as close to this GSX as my original. It is strange the bond that someone can have with and inanaimate object like a car, and I understand what you are talking about more than you know, but it may be time to move on. Think of it this way, for the price that you are talking about spending in the next year on your car, you could have much more easily purchased a new EVO, and financed it to where you are spending less this year and will have a car with a 100,000 mile waranty and free gas for a year (I think they are still doing that promo here at least). It would also be a NEW car, which some cannot put a price on.

 

[Dende00]

I dont like car payments, its like slavery. I will go with the cheap route just to start off. Im really tired of the bus. For this month im going to get the clutch, and maybe the flywheel. Next month im going to pay for the rest of my motor and drop what I have so far in. For the end of next month im going to repair damaged parts. Im not done payin for my motor yet I have 2200 left to pay not including shipping. How is that? It might take a lil bit more or less time depends. Also can I drive my car around? No more than 18 miles a week. Or do I need to go with the cheap route setup right away? I know not to race anyone, not to hit the gas to hard. Also can I use my turbo (stock) off my 2.0 for the 2.3? Just to break the motor in. Thanx

 

[staticbrainwash]

You need to realize that this motor will not just drop in and run. There's things you will need to kick it off before you even drive, thats what we've been trying to tell you.

You need some kind of logging and tuning device so you can get that motor running well for it's break in period.

 

[Dende00]

I still want this done, so its gonna be me taking the bus for a while. So besides the clutch and flywheel I should get dsmlink next? I can drive it like 6 blocks from the shop back to its parking? I park underground so its safe. So u know when I wanna do somehing im a 100%, so I dont care what it takes. If u guys can continue to help me that would be a big help really. Im tired of seeing those civic's making all that noise, and not doing anything. I must honestly say a dude that lives near me has a hot white one with flames. Only civic that I seen that makes my head 360.

 

[staticbrainwash]

DSMlink wouldn't be a bad idea to get everything tuned for the new motor. But if you don't know anything about tuning i'd do my best to get the tuning done as soon as the motor goes in and at a shop that can tune it out for you to make it run correctly.

 

[Dende00]

To tell u the truth I think I will pay the extra and have mitsubishi (is that spelt right). I dont trust to much mech around my area. Can a Mitsu mech tune my motor correctly? I also find that a lot of mech fear working on dsm. Do u know why? Do u also know around how muc it would cost to tune it? Price including parts if I need them for the tuning.

 

[GVR4592]

Don't take the car to the dealer for anything. Find a reputable tuner in your area that specializes in DSM's and go to them.