2.3 fwd

[sheffester]

I'm in the process of building a 2.3 FWD. I'm looking at eagle rods, undecided on piston choice, total seal rings, comp 101200's, dual valve springs, GSC lifters, all arp hardware, and a TD05 20G with a full 3 in exhaust. I'm hoping to be around 350-400whp and 350 torque. If anyone has any modifications, or suggestions on changes I should make, let me know. I have been searching and reading. The more I search, I see how unstreetable a 2.3 FWD is. I'm open to keeping a fully built 2.0, but I have this love for torque. Any help/criticism/suggestions is greatly appreciated.

 

[hypergenesis]

I'm in the process of building a 2.3 FWD. I'm looking at eagle rods, undecided on piston choice, total seal rings, comp 101200's, dual valve springs, GSC lifters, all arp hardware, and a TD05 20G with a full 3 in exhaust. I'm hoping to be around 350-400whp and 350 torque. If anyone has any modifications, or suggestions on changes I should make, let me know. I have been searching and reading. The more I search, I see how unstreetable a 2.3 FWD is. I'm open to keeping a fully built 2.0, but I have this love for torque. Any help/criticism/suggestions is greatly appreciated.

Im about to do the same with my build and building a stroker will have better power gains.

Do you plan on getting an upgraded transmission with an LSD in it?
Instead of the Comp Cam's Check out GSC s1 Cams.
20g's are nice but many give up the little gain in flow for a e3b16 just due to the fact they flow similar yet it spools a whole hell of a lot quicker.

 

[e85_4g63]

First off a 2.3 stroker motor is definitely not "unstreetable" in a fwd car. In fact the 2.3 is great. It's when you try and put down 300whp/300wtrq in a fwd that you have problems. A quality boost controler (or boost by gear if your using DSMLink) would help a lot. The torque is what beats the transmissions so keep that in mind. I built a 2.3 (Eagle/Wiseco) motor for a kid a couple years ago to put in his fwd 1g. It had an EVO III 16g (and using a standard boost controler at 17 psi), 1st, 2nd, and 3rd (when it came into boost) was pretty much a waste. What do you plan on using the car for?

 

[sheffester]

Our stroker set up will help with there spool time though since we are now flowing more air. And yea, I'm trying to find a good trans/LSD choice. I could always weld my diff, but I also found an LSD insert from SBR, I believe. Does anyone have any knowledge on this? Those GSC cams are pricey, although I am sure they are worth it.

 

[hypergenesis]

Our stroker set up will help with there spool time though since we are now flowing more air. And yea, I'm trying to find a good trans/LSD choice. I could always weld my diff, but I also found an LSD insert from SBR, I believe. Does anyone have any knowledge on this? Those GSC cams are pricey, although I am sure they are worth it.

Unless im mistaken GSC will regrind your stock cams for like 250$ or something like that. I saw it from a link on dsmtuners to their website.

 

[sheffester]

Thanks for bringing that up, what exactly is a regrind? It's confusing to me unless your starting with a blank cam. Once a cam gets ground, it can't be changed unless being made less aggressive, correct? I have heard good things about Delta regrinds as well.

 

[hypergenesis]

Thanks for bringing that up, what exactly is a regrind? It's confusing to me unless your starting with a blank cam. Once a cam gets ground, it can't be changed unless being made less aggressive, correct? I have heard good things about Delta regrinds as well.

Yet again this is just from what I understand from it.

They take the stock cam and regrind it to make it more of a steep Oval Shape to increase the lift duration while decreasing the amount of time it takes to move. From what I get it goes from an Egg shape to a skinny Egg shape so there's less distance traveled when the cam lifts.

Yet again that is what I understood.

Also a majority of all cams made are made from stock cams and are reground to have different properties. I think Kelfords, GSC, Comp, and a few others are all regrinds of stock cams, YET AGAIN MAY BE INCORRECT. But I am pretty Positive GSC uses regrinds of stock cams.

 

[e85_4g63]

Stay away from LSD inserts. There's plenty of examples of failures related to them. The LSD insert itself doesn't fail, it places such a load on the spider gears in the diff that they (the spider gears) break and wind out ruining the entire trans.

Regrind cams are actually pretty common. The way it works with our motors in particular is your place a stainless steel shim under the lifter to offset the reduced base circle created when they regrind the cam.

If you tell us what you want to do, or intend to use, the car for, we can help you out a lot better. For example if you solely want to drive the car on the street and have fun with your friends on the highway your setup would be complete different then say if you wanted to autoX the car or drag race. Help us help you!

Yet again this is just from what I understand from it.

They take the stock cam and regrind it to make it more of a steep Oval Shape to increase the lift duration while decreasing the amount of time it takes to move. From what I get it goes from an Egg shape to a skinny Egg shape so there's less distance traveled when the cam lifts.

Yet again that is what I understood.

Also a majority of all cams made are made from stock cams and are reground to have different properties. I think Kelfords, GSC, Comp, and a few others are all regrinds of stock cams, YET AGAIN MAY BE INCORRECT. But I am pretty Positive GSC uses regrinds of stock cams.

I know for a fact that GSC and Kelford start with new blanks, other company's I cannot say, as I have no personal experience with them.

 

[hypergenesis]

Stay away from LSD inserts. There's plenty of examples of failures related to them. The LSD insert itself doesn't fail, it places such a load on the spider gears in the diff that they (the spider gears) break and wind out ruining the entire trans.

Regrind cams are actually pretty common. The way it works with our motors in particular is your place a stainless steel shim under the lifter to offset the reduced base circle created when they regrind the cam.

If you tell us what you want to do, or intend to use, the car for, we can help you out a lot better. For example if you solely want to drive the car on the street and have fun with your friends on the highway your setup would be complete different then say if you wanted to autoX the car or drag race. Help us help you!



I know for a fact that GSC and Kelford start with new blanks, other company's I cannot say, as I have no personal experience with them.

When you say blanks do you mean brand new untouched Cams?

Also thanks for the better explanation on the regrind cams idea I wasn't sure how to word it

 

[sheffester]

Sorry for not sharing my intent for the car. Occasional 1/4 mile pass, mostly daily driver and highway fun with pals. I just want a really fun, torquey, impressive car. I know, and understand, to optimize my speed with my car I would need AWD. I'm aware I will be beat off the line by much slower vehicles. If I wanna win a race, I will just ride my GSX-R. I have only lost to a 599gtb on that . Back on topic, regrinds. From what I have read, Kelford's are the best of the best. But, I don't want to spend that much on cams. I'm looking for a good balance.

 

[RWD4G63]

No, you can't weld your diff, you won't be able to turn.

2.3 is perfectly fine for a fwd street car, if you're okay with torque steer and blowing the tires of when you try to make big power. Breaking traction is easier on the trans than a hard lunch anyway haha.

 

[daren_p]

A 2.3 is a great idea in a fwd........... If you don't like traction


Personally, not sure a stroker is the route I'd take with a fwd. Having owned a 400whp fwd, & then awd, I can say the fwd will become abit of a handful at those power levels vs awd. The lack of traction can becom annoying at times, even with a properly setup car (which alot of fwds are not). Best investment was probably my AVC-R boost controller for automatic boost levels in each gears, which are independently adjustable.

For me, gowing from an evoIII turbo to a FP3052 was a nice upgrade because, the slower, more linear spool was better for traction. Anything that does the opposite (ie stroker) is probably not the best idea, unless you plan to keep the power/boost low.

 

[Sp1kE]

What about looking at a higher revving motor, like a 2.1, 2.2 if you have the money...?

 

[edsgst]

Daren_p summed it up pretty well. Once you get around 300 whp and up in a fwd, streetability becomes an issue. Go north of 400, and it can become rather annoying. Need to pull onto a busy street? Don't blip the throttle too hard, or you'll just spin the tires, putting you, and the car about to t-bone you, in danger. You learn real fast to choose your gaps carefully...better yet, just wait for the Red Sea to part.

That said, however, if you are dead set on building a high HP fwd, then I do prefer the 2.3 over the 2.0 any day. In living with both, a 2.0 from '95-06', and a 2.3 since, I really like manners of the stroker. It has great pull down low(I've left in 2nd gear a few times while not paying attention), better throttle response, and I still get 22mpg in town & 30 hwy.

Sooo....what I'm trying to say is this: Go AWD man....

 

[dsm_92_fwd]

My 97 GST was horrible on the streets. 2.0 rebuilt, dks272, 550s, and the rest of the support mods with a Super 16g (16g housings, 20g wheels, and upgraded comp housing for more lag) i would still spool at like 3500 (full) running 25psi and a decent street tune.... Needless to say i hated driving in the rain because it was useless, on dry warm days it will spin until 70 (yes lsd tranny) with full suspension (tokico struts, eibach springs, sway bars, traction bars) I loved the car and it was mean but it had bad streetability

 

[sheffester]

With dsmlink, could it be made more streetable? I didn't know it was possible with link to limit boost depending on the gear. I could theoretically limit boost 1-3rd, then let it loose in 4th and 5th. I would need an electronic boost controller at that point though correct? Or would I limit power by limiting fuel? I have 1000cc injectors waiting to go in.

 

[daren_p]

Link does have the option to add boost control now (sort of like the AVC-R I spoke of above), that you can select different boost levels for gears 1 to 3.

This allows more boost as you get higher in the gears/higher speed but you'll still want a LSD & a real set of tires (ie not 215 wide all seasons) to help.

On dry, summer roads my car was fine at 25psi in 3rd & up, tires didn't spin. Second gear ~18psi was right on the edge before loss of traction. This was with a FP3052 turbo 225 wide Kumho MX's (summer only tire) & Quaife LSD.

 

[sheffester]

I understand. I have a full suspension, 235/40/18 (I believe) Kumho ecsta performance tires. I am looking into an LSD, and how would a TD05 20G compare to your 3052? Where would I find an AVC-R?

 

[ed1380]

They'll spool the same and the 3052 will flow 30% more.
You can also get a hx-35 which will spool the same and flow the same, but cost 3x less and be easily rebuildable for $100 vs $900 for the 3052.

 

[Cesarlcase]

Just to chime in a bit, the stroker is the way to go imo with fwd, if you have a auto at least. I'm making 310hp 310hp tq on just 8lbs with a complete stock suspension,bad mounts and stock tires 205. Funny thing is, I no longer have torque steer that's noticeable like I did with my car before the upgrade where I was making less HP. I'm sure once the mounts,suspension and tires are upgraded, the car will handle perfectly even when i get the car tuned for 400+ HP. I even launch at 3000rpm and just go. I could only imagine with LSD and some wide tires. I could see how With the shorter gears on the manual how it would be difficult though.