1st twin scroll 20g on DSM !!! (EVO 10 turbo)

[94awdcoupe]

I believe I am the first to convert EVO 10 for use on my EVO 1. The results are amazing. Here is quick over view.

I spent an enormous amount of time mounting a 3071 . Never really happy with the low end response I had been kicking myself that I wish I had made a custom manifold to mount a factory evo8/9 turbo. Then when the evo X came out with standard rotation twin scroll turbo I got excited. I new one would eventually end up on my car. You can mount evo8/9 turbo without too much trouble but the PS and alt has to go since the turbo inlet would sit right there in their place. That conversion was done once and car the made 355hp on pump gas and when low 11,s at 120 to back it up. Of course for me PS and A/C are a must so a seriously custom exhaust manifold and 02 would have been needed to make evo8/9 turbo work. The evo X turbo on the other hand is configured correctly for a much smoother conversion for DSM use. its still a big project but a fun one. original turbo is a 15g. upgraded turbo is a 20g/TD06L2 (e-bay-KAMAK) I will let pics do he talking. all in all spent a full work week getting it done but the spool and power is amazing. I am very pleased. I have the ultimate street turbo on this car. 4th gear stab at 2500 starts pulling hard at 3200. full 2.0 bar at 3700rpm. The spool figures dont tell the whole story the torque from 2500-3500 is making the 2.0 feel almost like a 2.3. Its that good.

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[DSMunknown]

i love your car uhh so the 1 on the left is a variable length cyclone intake ??? what is the one on the right ?? also does anyone know where to get a evo 1-3 ? i really need it to be usa legal .they are my dream cars and i hate to say it but i would sell or partout my dsm for one

That's an Evo 1, 2, or 3 intake manifold.

 

[gnen1st]

nice pics..his cars are well known in the state of fl. I remember when i came down from chicago to visit and my uncle took me to a meet in tampa thats when i first saw it. It looked great and at that time and all i heard were stories on how fast it was and no one wanted to race it. Keep up the great work

 

[gnen1st]

Lucky man

I'm actually working on moving down to Florida for Grad school. I wouldn't mind selling my current 2 cars and getting something jdm but id be paranoid about it getting stolen.

Do you daily drive that thing or do you have something else?

what ever you do dont by a honda.. they get stolen here like hotcakes..i got my talon a vette and a dd honda accord. Its pretty sad when im worried about my honda getting stolen then anything else...im serious when my talon and my friends Si were broken into they took nothing..nothing no gauges no afc and even put the broke glass on the grass. My friends si was gutted so they couldnt take much..but they did come back a week later and took the whole car that sucked for him

 

[94awdcoupe]

Rare cars are not high on thieves lists. If it did get stolen it would likley be by joy rider not professional dismantler. DSM fans are more respectful of others property than Honda camp. Seems that way anyway.

 

[olmytsi]

Yeah. Thanks for the response.

As far as Honda goes, i love Hondas but they are a nightmare. A good friend of mine has an EG6 turbo and it gets broken into weekly (no lie) and they can never take the car cause it has 880 cc injectors and he takes the ecu out everywhere he goes.

He is so fed up it is up for sale.

 

[bling5tatus]

94awdcoupe, if you don't mind me asking, why are you using a small port head on your evo instead of the larger "1g" head?

I too am using a small port for my own reasons, but I want to hear it from you why you are using one.

 

[viperlp01]

velocity... that is why.. There is alot of research out there for why you use this and that... search it up..

 

[bling5tatus]

velocity... that is why.. There is alot of research out there for why you use this and that... search it up..

Well that's why I chose to use a 2g head (and go through the trouble of mating it to a 6bolt block too).... but I wanted to hear this guys thoughts on the reason he used it.

I know the stock evo heads are all small port right? I really don't see a reason to swap to a 1g head w/ it's dated intake port design and valve entry "angle".

 

[dsm-onster]

The 2g intake manifold intake runners are not newer. The '89 4g61t colt has the same shape runners; as old as a 1g. It is also a smaller motor.

When you're trying to dodge trees and get out of the muddy ruts built up by 200 other cars who've hit the dirt before you, you need low end torque. The evo was build for WRC, good power at 3000rpms, not for what 99% of us want out of this motor for the street.

 

[bling5tatus]

The 2g intake manifold intake runners are not newer. The '89 4g61t colt has the same shape runners; as old as a 1g. It is also a smaller motor.

When you're trying to dodge trees and get out of the muddy ruts built up by 200 other cars who've hit the dirt before you, you need low end torque. The evo was build for WRC, good power at 3000rpms, not for what 99% of us want out of this motor for the street.

well I was talking about the head's intake port entry angle, not the intake manifold's... that's what i was referring to as being "updated" in design.

 

[dsm-onster]

I'm talking about the entire intake runner for the head. The 4g61 runner is ALL identical to the 2G 4g63 runner. the angle of entry, everything, is matched to the 2g. . . Just a FYI. The 2g also has a tiny super fast spooling turbo. I think the manufacturer was investing in low end torque. Afterall the market was praising VTECH and such at the time. It's an easy way to show satisfaction doesn't come from winding a motor to kingdome come to have what you want. It's not like the 2g eclipse couldn't tackle the likes of it's arch nemesis the integra in the day.

Studying the nature of automotive business is not part of the discussion. But the evo head was a purpose built design for WRC. Nothing you want to take on the street without understanding life ends after you get over the hill.

 

[94awdcoupe]

94awdcoupe, if you don't mind me asking, why are you using a small port head on your evo instead of the larger "1g" head?

I too am using a small port for my own reasons, but I want to hear it from you why you are using one.

I am using the evo/2g small intake port heads because the design is superior to a 1g head. The 1g head port size was designed for cyclone dual runner manifold. When 4g63 was shipped tp USA we got budget version without the costly dual runner manifold attached.

The 2g port size is high velocity design. But I am certain it is high velocity across entire power band. Not just for low end torque. If you think I am wrong on this you should ask yourself why the 4b11t has valves that are one and three mm smaller than 4g63. that engine is proving to make awesome power.

Intake manifold design is also largely misunderstood. Bigger is not better.Thats not how they work. there is a good tech article floating around Honda boards about how an intake manifold functions. In short the boost an intake manifold gives is from charging the air then releasing the charge. Much like a capacitor is charged with electrons then releases charge when grounded. The air inside intake manifold is acting like a spring. The air is charged by sound waves and reaches a resonant frequency/discharge point. The shape of intake manifold determines at what rpm range the discharges becomes most effective. In short looking at flow bench numbers is almost useless in designing an intake.

second way to realize bigger is not better is look at valve opening. even when at full lift the amount of air that can pass a valve inlet is tiny compared to intake runner volume available. making the intake bigger just slows the air down and hinders its ability to push air through small opening.

I have lots more info to ad to such a discussion but its best for another thread.

I have my e85 here. planned to put in car yesterday but had problems with my custom fill hose leaking. will have update on power likely by sunday eve.

 

[bling5tatus]

^^Flippin awesome, that's exactly the type of response I was looking for, and it largely follows what I already think... I didn't want to seed anything by mentioning why I chose to use a small port head.

Pretty good info about the evoX using smaller valves, doesn't surprise me. I also have always thought the same about flow benching intake manifolds... a motor doesn't just have a steady flow of air through the manifold, the valves stop the air and this is not recreated on a flow bench.

So... I think there's a 1g head vs. 2g head thread floating around somwhere, I think you should have some input on it. I talked to Kiggly recently also and he uses a 2g head on his race car... not the larger 1g intake port design.

 

[dsm-onster]

There are other 700+whp cars running the 1g head. Kevin has been through it all, but so have others.

The evoX car is still built for WRC. You have to have a stock block to run in WRC. So the factory has built the motor for rally.

 

[bling5tatus]

Ok you win, I didn't want to start a debate about 1g vs. 2g head, I was simply asking THE OP about why he chose a small port head and I got an intelligent answer from him. Thanks OP!!

1g head is better that's why the last person I got a 2g head from was happy to trade for my large port 6bolt head.

And... I'm kinda dumb, that's why I traded a large port head for the 2g head . I'm done w/ this conversation because I'm not going to debate in this thread about something not on topic.

 

[dsm-onster]

Thanx.

 

[slickers111]

This car is lookin very nice. Extremely clean turbo, and A beautiful face on the car.

 

[kmj 4g63t]

WOW!!!!!! nice job, one of the cleanest evo engine bays iv seen

 

[my1997gsx]

A+++++++++++++

 

[agentorange313]

Awesome fabrication. I just had a couple of question that I would appreciate being answered. I wanted to do the same conversion ever since I learned about the new evo X turbo.

The flange that you used to attach the evo X manifold, was it a 2g manifold that you cut of the flange?

It looks like there was no altercation to the alternator. Since its your own fabrication did you make the o2 housing fit so the stock downpipe is a direct bolt on?

My final question is about tuning the evo X turbo, what methods of tuning did you use for this new turbo is a evo 1/ 1g set up?

Thanks.

There are many websites out there that have custom tubular manifolds that can be made such as punishment racing. They custom fabricate this manifold and ask you about what type of flange to use. I am sure it is possible to find a evo X turbo flange that can be used in place of either the t3 or t4 flange. I think at that point you can have a stainless steel tubular manifold that will allow for stronger welding as apposed to cast iron, and also allow DSM to use evo X turbo. I still have not asked punishment racing if this is a possibility, but it might be something to look into.

I know that people make the evo VIII/IX turbo flange, how different are they from the evo X turbo flange?




Input?

 

[94awdcoupe]

Awesome fabrication. I just had a couple of question that I would appreciate being answered. I wanted to do the same conversion ever since I learned about the new evo X turbo.

The flange that you used to attach the evo X manifold, was it a 2g manifold that you cut of the flange?

It looks like there was no altercation to the alternator. Since its your own fabrication did you make the o2 housing fit so the stock downpipe is a direct bolt on?

My final question is about tuning the evo X turbo, what methods of tuning did you use for this new turbo is a evo 1/ 1g set up?

Thanks.

There are many websites out there that have custom tubular manifolds that can be made such as punishment racing. They custom fabricate this manifold and ask you about what type of flange to use. I am sure it is possible to find a evo X turbo flange that can be used in place of either the t3 or t4 flange. I think at that point you can have a stainless steel tubular manifold that will allow for stronger welding as apposed to cast iron, and also allow DSM to use evo X turbo. I still have not asked punishment racing if this is a possibility, but it might be something to look into.

I know that people make the evo VIII/IX turbo flange, how different are they from the evo X turbo flange?




Input?

Yes the head flange is from a 1g/2g.

There is no mods to a/c or p/s. it clears no issue. The down pipe is custom. doesnt come close to mating to 1g/2g downpipe flange.

If you have a 1g/2g and you want to do this it would be alot easier. You have 2.5 inches more space between engine and radiator. In my case the turbo had to be as close to block as possible. So getting new flange welded in correct spot was extremely important.

if you are not comfortable with welding new flange then I would recommend checking the evo x aftermarket. they have stock replacement manifolds made from stainless. It would be much easier that way. The evo 8/9 turbo flange is a mirror image of x flange. same flange flipped upside down. So its not hrad finding the parts to make one from scratch as well.

On 93 octane I was using the evo 3 ECU chipped for 560s. With 780 injectors and evo 8 mass the car was running brilliant with just AFC for minor corrections.

I now have the car running on E85 but WOT is not working out well. need timing control at this point.

 

[agentorange313]

most appreciated! you answered all of my questions. thank you

 

[97gst_spyder]

What material is the heat shield made of?

 

[turbo addict]

I'm talking about the entire intake runner for the head. The 4g61 runner is ALL identical to the 2G 4g63 runner. the angle of entry, everything, is matched to the 2g. . . Just a FYI. The 2g also has a tiny super fast spooling turbo. I think the manufacturer was investing in low end torque. Afterall the market was praising VTECH and such at the time. It's an easy way to show satisfaction doesn't come from winding a motor to kingdome come to have what you want. It's not like the 2g eclipse couldn't tackle the likes of it's arch nemesis the integra in the day.

Studying the nature of automotive business is not part of the discussion. But the evo head was a purpose built design for WRC. Nothing you want to take on the street without understanding life ends after you get over the hill.

the mirage turbo head is different than the 2g or a 1g. the ports are smaller than a 1g but not as long and a little taller (less oval) than a 2g. And the jdm mirage turbos have the same size as the 1g, just a smaller combustion chamber volume. I own all of them usdm,jdm mirage, 1g, and 2g.

Just for reference. ;-)

 

[94awdcoupe]

update. turbo is still tight as new. was running very well on e-85 making good power. then this happen.

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