1G turbo, Smoking and oil out of dipstick tube.

[solson1041]

Hi guys, I've had my '93 talon TSI a full week now and it's got some problems. I got a pretty good deal on it though and expected a few issues, so I'm just trying to solve them out.

First of all, it's burning oil somehow, not every time I drive it, but sometimes it does and it will do it pretty badly. Lots of slightly blueish tinted smoke out of the tail pipe. It doesn't seem to be consistent on when it will decide to smoke though as far as I can tell.

It also will occasionally shoot oil up from the dipstick tube. There's currently oil STANDING on top of my valve cover next to my spark plug wires. I would love to know what is causing so much pressure to build up down there that it is being forced out the top.

There's a few other smaller problems, possibly a vacuum leak. I'm just trying to get a handle on this car though because when it does drive good, it is just a pleasure to drive.

Thanks so much.

-Steve

 

[talonDSMerr]

The pooled oil on top of your valve cover could be the result of the rubber gasket underneath the oil fill cap being worn. The dipstick popping out of the tube and oil spewing out from there is a result of excessive crankcase pressure or a worn rubber seal on the dipstick itself. The combination of burning oil and the dipstick popping out leads me to believe your piston rings may be worn, letting combustion pressure into the crankcase (popping the dipstick out) and oil into the combustion chambers (burning oil).

A good test to verify whether your rings are worn is to perform a "leakdown test." This involves pressurizing the combustion chambers individually to focus in on where the pressure is leaking to, and if it is leaking at all. A quick search using the toolbar at the top of the page will give you detailed instructions as to how to perform the test.

Best of luck, once you finish ironing out the details, these cars can be very rewarding!

 

[Infamous33]

Don't forget the slight chance that the turbo bearings are failing, causing the turbo to take on oil under a load. This could also cause the dipstick to be pushed up by taking boost pressure into the oiling system and pressurizing the crankcase.

 

[1gdsmftw]

If I recall the dipstick shooting up is also a result of oil psi being too high in the crankcase and the pressure having nowhere else to go but their too right? I was told the pcv valve being bad could cause that since the pcv valve prevents over pressurization right?

 

[agentorange313]

First of all, it's burning oil somehow, not every time I drive it, but sometimes it does and it will do it pretty badly. Lots of slightly blueish tinted smoke out of the tail pipe. It doesn't seem to be consistent on when it will decide to smoke though as far as I can tell.
-Steve

When do you notice the smoke, WOT, idle then giving it gas/partial throttle? Blue smoke is oil burning, but it can be from several locations.
Depending on when your see smoke, it can help narrow down whats wrong, turbo seals, valve seals, oil rings on pistons, it can also be a improper pvc system. If you have a straight line to the manifold from the valve cover, you can be pulling more oil vapor that realized. I have seen this causing a knocking situation when datalogging. PITA

If I recall the dipstick shooting up is also a result of oil psi being too high in the crankcase and the pressure having nowhere else to go but their too right? I was told the pcv valve being bad could cause that since the pcv valve prevents over pressurization right?

Yes and yes,

Some experience with dipstick poping:

When I first got my 1g after hard pulls and hard driving, my dipstick would constantly pop out. It didn't no have a pcv valve. A barb fitting was in place with no check valve that vented to atmosphere by a hose. Jay Racing Constant Crankcase Ventilation Pseudo PCV valve [CCV1] - $10.00 : Jay Racing I replaced it with a oem pcv valve catchcan and check valve, then attached the line to the intake manifold. I also placed the other valve cover line to the intake of the turbo with a catch can in between. Never have had a crank pressure problem since.

Proper PCV system will remove this problem:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/366890-4g63t-pcv-system.html

 

[solson1041]

Thanks so much for the replies guys. I'm REALLY hoping it's not piston ring issues cause I am nowhere near at the mechanical level to rebuild an engine. Plus, if I'd be getting all the way to the piston rings, might as well work on the valves and everything else. So I really want to avoid that if I can.

So I should perform a leakdown test and check the pcv issues and hope I don't need piston work yes?

Also:

When do you notice the smoke, WOT, idle then giving it gas/partial throttle? Blue smoke is oil burning, but it can be from several locations.
Depending on when your see smoke, it can help narrow down whats wrong, turbo seals, valve seals, oil rings on pistons, it can also be a improper pvc system. If you have a straight line to the manifold from the valve cover, you can be pulling more oil vapor that realized. I have seen this causing a knocking situation when datalogging. PITA

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-engine-fuel/366890-4g63t-pcv-system.html

I honestly can't find a pattern in when it smokes. It does smoke at idle. I obviously can't really see it while I'm actually driving cause it doesn't have a chance to accumulate, for all I know, it could only be at idle and at some times.

If it helps, I feel like it might be running rich in general, it just smells gassy. And sometimes when I start it up over the week I've had it, it just runs terribly. Probably 3/4 times it's done this where it just runs like shit. I'm starting to notice that it mostly does that after being driven hard. Not necessarily driven, "fast" but "hard". My brother drove it like a moron yesterday and it was weak for the next couple hours.

Anyways, Thanks again, I'll get to looking at PCV problems and hope that's it, then a leakdown test and hope that's not it .

I'd love to hear anything more anyone has to say.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Do a compression test, to solve that issue, or track down the smoke issue first.

 

[Funfettie]

pull off the exhaust manifold, and look for oil in the head. if theres oil there, its piston rings or valve seals/guides. if its not in the head/manifold, its the turbo seals.

 

[solson1041]

pull off the exhaust manifold, and look for oil in the head. if theres oil there, its piston rings or valve seals/guides. if its not in the head/manifold, its the turbo seals.

I like this, thanks. I'll do it again as soon as I'm back home at my garage as opposed to out at college. Not much workspace in the apartment parking lot .

I've also been meaning to get a compression test, but I don't have the equipment and haven't had any free time on a day where the shops are open.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Autozone, or advanced auto open every day, thats where i get my testing equipment from, i guess when you find the time though.

 

[solson1041]

Autozone, or advanced auto open every day, thats where i get my testing equipment from, i guess when you find the time though.

Yeah I just now realized I could do it myself. I'm still getting my feet wet in all this, so I'm taking it slow. But I didn't realize you could borrow the stuff for a compression test. I'll get to it as soon as I've got the time.

Thanks so much again for the help. I'm sure I'll have more questions in the future as I keep working on this thing.

 

[solson1041]

I ran a compression test yesterday and got some really ridiculous results. It said I had ~30 psi per cylinder.... I think 28 was lowest, and 33 was highest or something.

Obviously this is a ridiculous result. My car shouldn't even drive with this kind of compression right? It's been driving better since I've had it and certainly doesn't feel THAT bad. I'd love some insight about this.

Also, regarding the pcv valve, I was digging around and pulled mine off to check it. It rattled and I blew into it and it stopped the air moderately well. I assume it's still alright then right? But my dipstick still comes out sometimes (though not as bad as it did). is there anything I can do to improve the vent on the VC other than porting new holes? Also, what should I buy to get a catch can installed? I don't really know at all what to actually shop for to get a catch can on there, but I feel like I need it cause I found some oil in my intake system.

I'll run another compression test when I've got the time. is 30 psi even remotely possible? My car is pretty peppy when it's running well, those numbers have to be the gauge right?

Thanks guys.

 

[BoxheadTim]

Was that compression test done warm or cold? You're supposed to do those with the engine hot as the piston rings tend to seal a little better that way.

I think 30 psi might be a little iffy, but there are a couple of factors that might influence the result:

• Engine temperature
• Throttle position (you did hold it down all the way, right?)
• How long you cranked - my rule of thumb is to stop cranking when the gauge stops moving.

 

[solson1041]

Was that compression test done warm or cold? You're supposed to do those with the engine hot as the piston rings tend to seal a little better that way.

I think 30 psi might be a little iffy, but there are a couple of factors that might influence the result:

• Engine temperature
• Throttle position (you did hold it down all the way, right?)
• How long you cranked - my rule of thumb is to stop cranking when the gauge stops moving.

Yeah, it was after a 100ish mile trip home from college, the throttle was held open and I cranked for about 5 seconds each time with my brother watching the gauge. It didn't move higher...

I'll get another tester out here when i can to double check. My dad (huge pessimist) said something to the extent of, "Yeah it probably does have that kind of compression in it and it won't start for you this winter when it gets cold" and continued to say I should sell it while I still can. But, to his credit. It was coldest here it's been in a long while, and it had some good trouble starting and didn't really run like it's supposed to... so... is it possible to really have these kind of numbers?

 

[BoxheadTim]

You can have that sort of compression numbers and I'd guess the engine might still start and run. I've seen a car with a four cylinder engine run OK with zero compression on one cylinder, but I don't think I've seen one with numbers this low across the board.

I think using another compression gauge to double check is a good idea, and I'd probably try a leakdown test as well - if the numbers you're seeing are *this* bad, a leakdown test would easily confirm that the engine is a bit past its prime.

 

[solson1041]

You can have that sort of compression numbers and I'd guess the engine might still start and run. I've seen a car with a four cylinder engine run OK with zero compression on one cylinder, but I don't think I've seen one with numbers this low across the board.

I think using another compression gauge to double check is a good idea, and I'd probably try a leakdown test as well - if the numbers you're seeing are *this* bad, a leakdown test would easily confirm that the engine is a bit past its prime.

Oh yeah, that was the other thing. I fully intended to do a leakdown test this weekend, but none of the local autozone/napa/pepboys had it. Is there somewhere special I need to go to get ahold of one?

Also, the car performs fairly well considering the problems I've acknowledged. It pulls strong when it runs right and has no problem handling high speeds, and getting to them as quickly as I can imagine it is supposed to (not that I would ever speed on a public road of course....). Bad compression would surely affect power proportionally to how badly the compression is suffering yes? if each cylinder only pushes with 1/4 as much force as it's supposed to, the car should have 1/4th as much hp... wouldn't it?

Thats kind of an unrelated side point though. I'll get another compression test and track down leakdown equipment.

 

[awdcsm]

did u check your pvc valve

 

[BoxheadTim]

Oh yeah, that was the other thing. I fully intended to do a leakdown test this weekend, but none of the local autozone/napa/pepboys had it. Is there somewhere special I need to go to get ahold of one?

I think Harbor Freight sells it, but I don't know how good it is. Keep in mind that you need a compressor for that type of equipment.