Resolved 1G Replace Pop-up Relay w/ Aftermarket Relay?

[CrackedDSM]

Hey guys, my passing control relay/passing relay/flasher relay/pop-up relay in my 91 Talon has kicked the bucket. I've been searching like crazy trying to find a new one, but it ain't gonna happen. I did stumble on a thread in my search though where a guy mentioned he replaced his OEM relay with an aftermarket relay (like the one's that power your fuel pump rewire).


How would I do this? I'm waaay too much of a newb with electrical stuff to understand how the passing control relay functions, or how an aftermarket relay works. I know that the oem relay essentially just connects the first two and last two pins on the connector with each other for like 5 seconds then cuts off voltage. I CAN just wire the wires together to delete the relay entirely, but I'll be honest I'm worried about keeping constant voltage to something that the factory only intended to have temporary voltage applied to.


Soooooooo, please halp!

Edit: Further clarification, I might be asking a lot here but I'd actually like to understand how these things works too. I'm not exactly just asking someone to give me how to do it. I'd like to learn why. I've been googling and researching but idk. My brain is fried. So yeah, please help me by teaching my dumbass how this stuff works. Lol

If you don't wanna teach me though, I won't be mad at a simple "take new relay, wire like this, now GTFO" because I'll reverse engineer how stuff works from there.

 

[19Eclipse90]

A little digging through the Internet, stumbled across a post of @steve on 3si.org that might provide some help. Original thread here.

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His observation does appear to be correct. Search both part numbers on NAPA and they take you to the same NAPA part, Eichlin AR615, listed as an airbag relay.

Go elsewhere and RockAuto currently has a lower cost option available.

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I realize that doesn’t answer the stated questions but no reason to do all the work if you don’t have to.

 

[CrackedDSM]

A little digging through the Internet, stumbled across a post of @steve on 3si.org that might provide some help. Original thread here.

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His observation does appear to be correct. Search both part numbers on NAPA and they take you to the same NAPA part, Eichlin AR615, listed as an airbag relay.

Go elsewhere and RockAuto currently has a lower cost option available.

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I realize that doesn’t answer the stated questions but no reason to do all the work if you don’t have to.

I'm not calling anyone a liar, but the plugs look different to me. I'll dig further though.


Might seem silly, but honestly I'm just gonna wire the four wires to a 4 post switch, and mount the switch somewhere that looks OEM. I don't wanna run voltage full time to motors that only are supposed to get voltage for like 5-10 seconds.

 

[19Eclipse90]

If I’m misunderstanding which relay you’re asking about, that would be my error.

The pop-up head light relay on a 1Ga DSM is this, MB543647:

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NAPA’s website shows MB543648 as this:

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[CrackedDSM]

If I’m misunderstanding which relay you’re asking about, that would be my error.

The pop-up head light relay on a 1Ga DSM is this, MB543647:

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NAPA’s website shows MB543648 as this:

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Oh no, what I'm referring to is the passing control relay. Pictured below from the FSM. It has a different plug on it(also included in the terrible picture). I just call it a "pop-up relay" because I've seen others mistakenly call it that as well.

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Mine has gone bad, so the headlights will pop up, but not down. But if I jump terminals 1/3 and 2/5 on the harness plug, they work. I found that bit of info by searching, and one dude mentioned he just used a regular relay to replace his, but no other info about it. And I just can't wrap my head around how to do it with a regular bosch relay.

 

[midoko]

90 TechInfoMan and 90/91 service manual (maybe similar to yours) shows the relay has timers to cut HL motor power if the up or down function takes more than about 5 secs to protect the motors. So a regular relay wouldn't wouldn't provide that function. Check this:

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Have you checked CAPS/ASA? for the P/N? MB530227 is listed for my 90 1G. On the web I found MB852958 is equivalent. Also found a few others listed for D21A/D22A/D27A, but not sure the variables other than flip up lights.
MB628485 AR16-4 1989.09.1 - 1990.04.3
MB852959 Replacement
MB852959 AR16-5 1990.05.1 - 1993.05.3

 

[CrackedDSM]

90 TechInfoMan and 90/91 service manual (maybe similar to yours) shows the relay has timers to cut HL motor power if the up or down function takes more than about 5 secs...to protect the motors. So a regular relay wouldn't wouldn't provide that function. Check this:

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Have you checked CAPS/ASA? for the P/N? MB530227 is listed for my 90 1G. On the web I found MB852958 is equivalent. Also found a few others listed for D21A/D22A/D27A, but not sure the variables other than flip up lights.
MB628485 AR16-4 1989.09.1 - 1990.04.3
MB852959 Replacement
MB852959 AR16-5 1990.05.1 - 1993.05.3

Well, I guess if the search for an MB520227 doesn't yield result I'll go with my original plan of a 4 pole switch. I'd like to not do that though as it feels ghetto.

 

[midoko]

It's crazy you can't find a part to perform a crucial task like flipping the lights down. So I started checking for delay on & off relays and voila: https://www.qualitymobilevideo.com/bu509td.html There is also a delayed-on version, bu510td.
Hella makes variants of these too, but I think they're only 5A or 10A, and they cost more.
Not sure if this exactly fits your needs, but looking online I found tons of 12V timers you could use with standard 5-pin auto relays. The electronic gurus on here might be able to guide you connecting it up.

 

[steve]

Here's what is inside.

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How it's used.

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[midoko]

Wouldn't you know, it was only a matter of time! At first one headlight wouldn't go down all the way. Then intermittently, neither would come up, actually they would seldom come up. So once when they did, I pushed the dash button to keep them up. Finally I opened the relay, same as Steve's (awesome pics!). Checked the caps and they were in spec, but I guess they were breaking down under load. Already had the relay out and opened, so I replaced them. I didn't have the 6.8's, so I paralleled a 4.7 and 2.2. I had a handful of each, so I mixed and matched to get 6.8uf. Probably didn't matter since their tolerances are loose anyway. Back in business, works every time! HERE is the Zon link to the box of assorted caps I used. Next day free delivery for prime...like $11

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[CrackedDSM]

Wouldn't you know, it was only a matter of time! At first one headlight wouldn't go down all the way. Then intermittently, neither would come up, actually they would seldom come up. So once when they did, I pushed the dash button to keep them up. Finally I opened the relay, same as Steve's (awesome pics!). Checked the caps and they were in spec, but I guess they were breaking down under load. Already had the relay out and opened, so I replaced them. I didn't have the 6.8's, so I paralleled a 4.7 and 2.2. I had a handful of each, so I mixed and matched to get 6.8uf. Probably didn't matter since their tolerances are loose anyway. Back in business, works every time! HERE is the Zon link to the box of assorted caps I used. Next day free delivery for prime...like $11

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Never updated this, but I ended up doing the same thing except I used a 6.8 cap. Fixed my issue and still going strong.

 

[midoko]

Glad you didn't have to go with the toggle

 

[Paintballaa5]

Here's what is inside.

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How it's used.

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Fantastic thread yall. This totally fixed my issue. Replaced the leaking caps and one of the resistors.
Works perfectly now! Thanks for posting those pictures and capacitor specs.
If anyone is wondering one of the R3 and R6 resistors are 680 ohm

 

[benjaker_gsx]

If anyone is wondering one of the R3 and R6 resistors are 680 ohm

680k ohms or 680 ohms?

 

[19Eclipse90]

Unless I’m missing a color, you’re right that it’s 680k ohms.

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