1991 Plymouth Laser Base

[Redrocketlaser]

Think about putting a 1992 Galant alternator on. It puts out more amps (90) and is a direct swap.
I run them on 2 of my DSMs.

https://www.autozone.com/searchresult?searchText=Alternator

Will it work on a 1.8?
Is the 1.8 alternator any different from the 4g63?

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Well,...that's a good question. Let me see if I can get another opinion.
@BLACK'98DSM , do you know if the 1.8 shares the same alternator? THANKS!
I'm not sure if he will know, but I consider him a very good source, especially on NA stuff. There are other great members, but they're not as active currently. Chime in guys!

 

[BLACK'98DSM]

I actually looked into this once fortunately. I wanted to buy a non accessorized 4g63 to swap in my 92 GS 4g37. The alternator itself is likely interchangeable while the pulley should probably be swapped. The 4g63 has a larger diameter pulley, likely due to a difference in harmonic balancer diameter. I had a 4g37 and 4g63NA alternator laid next time each other once and I think they'll interchange but I didn't bolt them up. I'm also noticing that the OE alternators were 65A for the 4g37 and 75A for the 4g63. But that shouldn't be a problem since you can buy the 75A and 90A for each.

4g63:

4g37:

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Thanks so much Solomon!
Do you have any idea if the connectors for the alternator are the same on this 1.8L motors alternator? I can't imagine changing plugs just because of the difference in motors myself but I don't know.

 

[19Eclipse90]

If the pictures all over the internet are accurate representations of each then “yes”, the connectors are the same.

 

[BLACK'98DSM]

I remember the connectors being the same as well. The only eye catching difference I noted was the pulley diameter. Theoretically you could bolt it on and go but I wouldn't want to underdrive it.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Ok, now we have 2 very good opinions so it is up to you if you decide to upgrade or replace.
Thanks guys!

 

[Redrocketlaser]

Ok, now we have 2 very good opinions so it is up to you if you decide to upgrade or replace.
Thanks guys!

Well I appreciate you getting some other members involved, you guys seem so helpful and welcoming over here! Not sure if you guys have ever messed with any other vehicle platforms but the car enthusiast communities can really be hit and miss when it helpfulness

I actually looked into this once fortunately. I wanted to buy a non accessorized 4g63 to swap in my 92 GS 4g37. The alternator itself is likely interchangeable while the pulley should probably be swapped. The 4g63 has a larger diameter pulley, likely due to a difference in harmonic balancer diameter. I had a 4g37 and 4g63NA alternator laid next time each other once and I think they'll interchange but I didn't bolt them up. I'm also noticing that the OE alternators were 65A for the 4g37 and 75A for the 4g63. But that shouldn't be a problem since you can buy the 75A and 90A for each.

4g63:
View attachment 755065

4g37:
View attachment 755066

Thanks for the info, I’ve never had these parts in front of me so I really had no way of knowing all that

So on RockAuto the 1.8 has the option for a 65amp for manual transmission cars and a 75amp for automatic transmission cars. Assuming they are the same other than the output I’ll probably just pick up one of these replacements for an auto. Specifically this nice little $27.79 guy in my screenshot I know it’s a gamble but I’m gonna cross my fingers and order that one sometime next week or the week after.

I’ll be sure to post my results when I finally get it

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

You will find out that this forum is THE MOST HELPFUL FORUM about cars, anywhere, because, #DSMTUNERS , we ROCK!!!
We all will talk "other" cars, as we all own "others", but those men I tagged are much more informed on DSM's than me.
If you want to talk "engines", I'm a "Vast cesspool of worthless knowledge" but I have been building engines since 1978.

 

[BLACK'98DSM]

Way to be humble, Marty. You have what, 6 or 7 DSM's sitting around?
I know as well as anybody that owning cars doesn't mean you know anything about them, but what separates you from them is that you actually WORK on them. I may have a vast knowledge about these things now, but you were helping me out before I even joined the forums.

O.P: anyone who replies to your build thread is now following it with notifications. We'll keep an eye on your status so feel free to post anymore questions you have along the way. It's always a great idea to search around before asking but we'll have you covered!

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Thanks Solomon. I smile when I am helpful but I am surrounded by folks like you and Brian (and all the others, many others) that help ME. As a collective, we all benefit
Marty

 

[Redrocketlaser]

Well I really appreciate it you guys! I haven’t been in a community like this since I was an active member of FEOA(ford escort owners association) back in the 2010s. But even then I wasn’t very involved and rarely posted anything due to not having a good phone with a decent camera/overall motivation. I’m pretty stoked to share my journey with you guys, and I’m definitely nowhere near finished so more updates will come in the next few months when I get my tax return I have my eyes on some wheels and I also tracked down a company that makes HEADERS for the 4g37 over in Australia. I’m really hoping to order one.

Also I got bored yesterday and had weather in the 60s (?) so I decided to clean and paint my valve cover. Very happy with the results, the paint was some old metallic silver engine enamel I got on sale for $1 can, so I’m pretty surprised it turned out so well. There’s some mistakes in person in a few spots but overall it almost looks factory

 

[19Eclipse90]

I’d suggest taking care of that exhaust heat shield next. It will help clean things up and look much better under there!

 

[Redrocketlaser]

I’d suggest taking care of that exhaust heat shield next. It will help clean things up and look much better under there!

Yeah, I plan on finding some black exhaust paint for that. Should clean it up real nicely

Found some wheels today that I’m hoping to get in the next few weeks, they appear to be 16x8 3000gt wheels and they’re going to look amazing imo.

 

[Redrocketlaser]

Still no updates, should be able to order parts next week and start doing some work on the car(alternator, head gasket). While I have the head off I plan on cleaning up what I can, de-carboning and lapping the valves; I’m thinking about doing some mild port work, maybe gasket matching and knocking off any castings, no polishing or anything crazy. My question is if I were to do some small modifications I o the ports like that would my ecu be able to compensate for the extra flow? I’ve never ported anything other than small carbureted engines so I have no idea how much it actually affects the afr.

And I know I’m not going to see any big gains, but I figure while the head is off I could take the opportunity to do this.

Also not planning on doing any other modifications yet due to funding, so it’ll be stock 1.8 TB, stock exhaust minus the Cat delete pipe, stock 1.8 injectors and stock intake aside from the outer baffles removed. I may do these things in the future but idk really what to do about a tune when it comes to these things. I know I could get an old safc but l love in the Midwest, and our temps can go from 30f one day to 75f the next, so I don’t think that would be very doable.

What do you guys think?

 

[BLACK'98DSM]

You're overthinking the modifications. Which is good - for most vehicles you need to worry about that kind of stuff. But you'll find that the 4g37 is quite unresponsive to modifications and nothing short of a turbo or NOS would hurt it badly. I think porting the cylinder head will be a waste of time for this one. Not that it won't net you anything, but it won't be worth your time IMO. If you're an avid hobbyist towards that engine and feel the desire to do it, then don't let me hold you back, but don't go in expecting a noteable difference.

Your best modification is a 4g63 swap. He'll even the 420A is a far more stout engine than the 4g37. My 1g had to go 0-60 in a full 10 seconds and no intake or exhaust mods could bring it to life I'd imagine. Years ago there was a guy on these forums bragging about putting 120hp to the wheels on the dyno and he was met with nothing but doubt.

All this being said, back when I was shopping around for performance parts I came across a few camshaft regrinds still available. If you get a good street cam and free up the intake + exhaust you might get a fun daily. Still nothing crazy but something to look into if you've the extra funds to play with it. Tuning isn't something I'd worry about until you have a better engine to build from.

 

[CrackedDSM]

You're overthinking the modifications. Which is good - for most vehicles you need to worry about that kind of stuff. But you'll find that the 4g37 is quite unresponsive to modifications and nothing short of a turbo or NOS would hurt it badly. I think porting the cylinder head will be a waste of time for this one. Not that it won't net you anything, but it won't be worth your time IMO. If you're an avid hobbyist towards that engine and feel the desire to do it, then don't let me hold you back, but don't go in expecting a noteable difference.

Your best modification is a 4g63 swap. He'll even the 420A is a far more stout engine than the 4g37. My 1g had to go 0-60 in a full 10 seconds and no intake or exhaust mods could bring it to life I'd imagine. Years ago there was a guy on these forums bragging about putting 120hp to the wheels on the dyno and he was met with nothing but doubt.

All this being said, back when I was shopping around for performance parts I came across a few camshaft regrinds still available. If you get a good street cam and free up the intake + exhaust you might get a fun daily. Still nothing crazy but something to look into if you've the extra funds to play with it. Tuning isn't something I'd worry about until you have a better engine to build from.

Reminds me of another guy who was convinced his 4G37 would ever be faster than a 16G DSM. Talked a huge game, actually got me banned from the DSMoneEights forums because I doubted him publicly. Ended up never having anything come of it, big surprise.


A turbo'ed NA 4G63 using stock turbo DSM parts will be faster than any 4G37 equipped 1G ever. But, it's certainly not going to HURT to do things like you're planning, OP. Just don't expect any kind of gains.

 

[Redrocketlaser]

You're overthinking the modifications. Which is good - for most vehicles you need to worry about that kind of stuff. But you'll find that the 4g37 is quite unresponsive to modifications and nothing short of a turbo or NOS would hurt it badly. I think porting the cylinder head will be a waste of time for this one. Not that it won't net you anything, but it won't be worth your time IMO. If you're an avid hobbyist towards that engine and feel the desire to do it, then don't let me hold you back, but don't go in expecting a noteable difference.

Your best modification is a 4g63 swap. He'll even the 420A is a far more stout engine than the 4g37. My 1g had to go 0-60 in a full 10 seconds and no intake or exhaust mods could bring it to life I'd imagine. Years ago there was a guy on these forums bragging about putting 120hp to the wheels on the dyno and he was met with nothing but doubt.

All this being said, back when I was shopping around for performance parts I came across a few camshaft regrinds still available. If you get a good street cam and free up the intake + exhaust you might get a fun daily. Still nothing crazy but something to look into if you've the extra funds to play with it. Tuning isn't something I'd worry about until you have a better engine to build from.

I absolutely agree that the best way to make anything over basically 120whp is a 4g63t swap, I just don’t have the money or time to put into it. I plan on doing the hg replacement +porting in 1-3 days max, to Avon the car being down long(also I just don’t have the 2-3k it would take to do a swap).

I have an old house that likes to fall apart and between that, my 2 daughters and wife I’m far too busy to dive into a project like that. Not to mention everything I do is in a gravel driveway, no garage, just trees and fingers crossed for good weather

I actually saw the regrinds you were talking about on Schneider I believe. Part of the reason I want to go ahead and port it, if I got a can I would want some port work if I expect anything at all from it I’m sure. Like I said, I’m not expecting much of anything, more so just doing it.

Not to trash the 4g63t but I always feel like when you’re looking for reliability less is more, and the same goes here. Turbos are amazing but they are one more thing to fail and leave me stranded, and I put ALOT of miles on this car so reliablity is something I don’t want to compromise. I bought the car with 129k miles in march last year, when I stopped driving it in early November the odo was at 143k. 14k miles and I haven’t had a single issue with the car other than the HG leak that is directly my fault(car was spark knocking all the time running on 87 and I didn’t realize). Now that may be nothing for an old Corolla or civic but I feel like that’s pretty good for a 34yr old dsm

Btw I was DoorDashing with the car the last 3 months, where a lot of the miles came from.

 

[RamenPride]

I had a 1.8 years ago. Hacked aircan with K&N air filter, 2.5" Pacesetter cat back exhaust (nothing smaller like 2.25 available that was cheap), unorthodox underdrive crank pulley were the main "performance" mods. Gains noticeable, but minimal. Felt faster, but still slower than my friends NT. The 4g37 intake manifold is 2 pieces, so I ported out the throttle body opening (there is a little step there) and gasket matched the upper and lower halves just to see if it made any difference. Not much difference as you might expect given the fact the TB opening remained the same. If you're looking for better performance, I would just stick with the air can mod, test pipe/cat delete, and then just advance the ignition timing and run premium gas. Maybe a less restrictive muffler if you don't mind the noise. Anything beyond that isn't worth the money.

 

[pauleyman]

Reminds me of an old friend. Back in the digestive days I met a guy with a 1.8, pacesetter, open can etc. I took him for a ride in my 1g. All I had at the time was turbo back and some boost. I thought he was gonna piss his pants. 1.8 was gone very quickly and replaced with a really nice 93 awd talon. Crazy part is a 93 talon in 96 with 50k on it was 8k$.

 

[Redrocketlaser]

Ok so I’m ordering parts tomorrow, since im doing the HG im getting a timing belt too. Is it generally a bad idea to leave the belt off the front balance shaft? Considering the rear would still be in use via the oil pump? Obv if it’s a bad idea I’ll order a belt for that as well, just figured I’d see what you guys thought because it seems like a subject that’s kinda on the fence.

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Put a new QUALITY belt on the balance shaft sprocket and tensioner pulley at this time.
Maybe it's just me, but I'm already there.
BOTH belts if it hasn't been BSE'd properly. Your motor will thank you.
Those shafts are a "phased" pair.

 

[BLACK'98DSM]

Technically you can run it without the balance shaft belt. It's a "free" modification to deliver a little extra power, but at the cost of comfortability. You won't lose or gain excessive oil pressure if the shafts are still installed, but it might be a little nerving. I would just leave the belt on unless you want to go for a full deletion, but it will idle so much smoother.

I normally go for a BSE on racing Honda and Mitsu engines, but find other ways to pick up that extra power on something I drive often. Theoretically you won't wear the internals quicker but other parts will be stressed from the excessive vibration.

 

[Redrocketlaser]

Put a new QUALITY belt on the balance shaft sprocket and tensioner pulley at this time.
Maybe it's just me, but I'm already there.
BOTH belts if it hasn't been BSE'd properly. Your motor will thank you.
Those shafts are a "phased" pair.

Ok well, you guys have talked me into it . Seems the engine would be happier and potential live a healthier life with both balance shafts in use.

Is BSE a Balance Shaft Eliminator? Idt I’ve ever seen the acronym before.

I’ll be ordering parts tonight, and tomorrow im going to possibly pick up a set of wheels for it! I know they aren’t everyone’s cup of tea, but they really feel like one of those “period correct” things and im really wanting to get that 90s look

American Racing Snipers: 17x7.5
Going to order some cheap 205/50r17s for them and I think they will look mint once cleaned up!

 

[BLACK'98DSM]

How do those wheels compare in weight to the ones you have now? I would go for the lightest wheel possible. That will bring performance gains to the car without engine mods