16g and SAFC HELP

[apedog]

So I ended up buying a 16g with PTE 680cc injectors and a walboro 190lph fuel pump.

The question is do I really need to buy an SAFC?? I know it will make it run better but will my car run fine without it until I get it??

Thanks

 

[Orion97gs-t]

It will run but it will run really rich and you prob wont have as much power and u wanting

 

[Junfan]

It may run OK. It will be really rich, gas mileage will suffer and power will be down alot at WOT. Honestly, it would crazy not to buy and SAFC at this point. You are dumping so much fuel at the car.

 

[JusMX141]

So I ended up buying a 16g with PTE 680cc injectors and a walboro 190lph fuel pump.

The question is do I really need to buy an SAFC?? I know it will make it run better but will my car run fine without it until I get it??

Failure to use some sort of tuning method with larger injectors will result in horrible performance, even worse fuel mileage, and you'll eventually flood the crankcase with unburnt fuel which will wash the bearings, kill the oil's film strength, and eventually cause you to ruin the engine.

If this sounds like something you want to do, by all means throw the injectors in without an AFC.

 

[apedog]

I know this may sound crazy but what if I just raised the airflow to the turbo via boost controller to compensate for the fuel? I mean its only until I buy the SAFC

 

[SlowChild3]

Same fuel amount for the same amount of airflow. Your ecu thinks you still have 450cc injectors. Or whatever comes in a NT car.

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[apedog]

So it wouldnt work? So the ecu will still think it has 390's in it?

 

[Orion97gs-t]

it will run, but your are going to hate how it runs without a tune

 

[Junfan]

It will work. It will just run very poorly and also cause the failures that Jusmx141 pointed out. The ECU will still believe you have 390cc for auto and 450cc injectors for manual. The ECU does not understand any other injector size. This is why you put in an SAFC to cut down the amount of fuel sprayed into the cylinder.

 

[Tigerhorns]

Well lemme throw my 2 cents in. I just got my SAFC installed i had put 550's a 190, and 2g maf on my car i thought my car was alot faster. Then i finally got someone to do all the wire taping for me to install my SAFC tuned that thing, and the car runs like it stole something HUGE DIFFERENCE. If you ask me buy the SAFC you can get one on craiglist for like 100 bucks.

 

[rock1t]

Failure to use some sort of tuning method with larger injectors will result in horrible performance, even worse fuel mileage, and you'll eventually flood the crankcase with unburnt fuel which will wash the bearings, kill the oil's film strength, and eventually cause you to ruin the engine.

If this sounds like something you want to do, by all means throw the injectors in without an AFC.

x2. that's some good info right there.

the safc tricks your ecu, so you can shorten your injector pulse's for larger injectors or lengthen them for more air.


because your ecu is stupid, and won't figure out that you installed larger injectors, and will continue to send the same signal to the injector, which means you will be pouring way to much fuel. Just because you install bigger injectors, and up the boost, doesn't mean you will be making that much power, you have to have a way to tune it, and a SAFC is a good entry level tuning tool.

 

[adidasdudegst]

x3 I agree with jusmx141 and rock1t. It's not good to run without a tune when you start messing with fuel adjustments. You should really save up and get yourself dsmlink you will never regret the decision.

 

[1990AWD]

jusmx141 is one of the smartest guys on this site; I would do as he says

 

[apedog]

Ok so if I buy this Apex-i SAFC and use this guide http://www.knight-rider.org/mn-dsm/tips/SAFC2.jpg I can hook it up??

 

[Junfan]

I would not follow that or any other diagram out there for the SAFC2. I did that on mine a couple months ago and had to set the car as 2 cylinder in the setup because the RPM was ready 1/2 of normal. This is because you are pulling RPM off PIN 54. PIN 54 is a Power Transistor for coils 1 and 4. That is why you have to set this to 2 cylinder mode. 6Bolt2G (Jeremy) and I went through the shop manuals and found the correct cable to be the following. PIN 108 which is Ignition Pulse Detect (Tach) and is white in color. Below is how the final wiring will look.

Brown closest to ECU on pin 106 Black (Ground)
Black over 1CM away from Brown on pin 106 Black (Ground)
Red on pin 107 Red (Power)
Green on pin 109 White (Ignition Pulse Detect)
Grey on pin 19 Green/White stripe (Throttle Position Sensor)
Purple on pin 9 White (Detonation Sensor)
Orange Input from pin 10 Green/Black stripe (Airflow Sensor In)
Pink Output to pin 10 Green/Black stripe (Airflow Sensor out)

Mine works perfect now.

 

[JusMX141]

Well lemme throw my 2 cents in. I just got my SAFC installed i had put 550's a 190, and 2g maf on my car i thought my car was alot faster. Then i finally got someone to do all the wire taping for me to install my SAFC tuned that thing, and the car runs like it stole something HUGE DIFFERENCE. If you ask me buy the SAFC you can get one on craiglist for like 100 bucks.

Your 2G MAS reads airflow differently than the stock 1G MAS does; therefore it is almost like adding some type of compensation via a tuning device. Many guys are running a 2G MAS / 550 injector combo with no additional tuning.

I had a customer's 1G here at the beginning of summer with a 2G MAS / RC550 combo. In order to get the A/F gauge to be happy at idle, I had to add a ton of fuel, like 20%. Seemed ridiculous to me that the 2G MAS could have screwed his idle air metering up that bad, but it did....so definitely use some type of tuning device any time the fuel system or air metering system is modified.

 

[rock1t]

Your 2G MAS reads airflow differently than the stock 1G MAS does; therefore it is almost like adding some type of compensation via a tuning device. Many guys are running a 2G MAS / 550 injector combo with no additional tuning.

I had a customer's 1G here at the beginning of summer with a 2G MAS / RC550 combo. In order to get the A/F gauge to be happy at idle, I had to add a ton of fuel, like 20%. Seemed ridiculous to me that the 2G MAS could have screwed his idle air metering up that bad, but it did....so definitely use some type of tuning device any time the fuel system or air metering system is modified.

One reason behind that, is the fact that the 2g maf is actually smaller and reads less air.

I love my GM maf, and dsmlink.

 

[DSMDirkah]

It's 2010, there are much better ways than "hack" tuning. Find a Honda tuner buddy and borrow his ostrich and chip burner for a few days. Add a map sensor/IAT sensor and download DSMap (this of course is assuming that you have an eprom ECU. You can socket it yourself for $2 and I assume that your car is a 1g) You are going to need a wideband either way. SAFC has rattled more bottom ends than Tiger Woods at a titty bar.

 

[SlowChild3]

SAFC has rattled more bottom ends than Tiger Woods at a titty bar.

Lol

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[laserblazer]

Failure to use some sort of tuning method with larger injectors will result in horrible performance, even worse fuel mileage, and you'll eventually flood the crankcase with unburnt fuel which will wash the bearings, kill the oil's film strength, and eventually cause you to ruin the engine.

If this sounds like something you want to do, by all means throw the injectors in without an AFC.

Wow. This sounds exactly like what happened to me. I have 550cc injectors and an ebay 16g. I have an SAFCII but its not tuned correctly. I have noticed my gas mileage going down also. But to get to the point, my oil has been smelling like fuel a little bit lately. I thought it was blow by gasses in my cranck case not being sucked out because I dont have a really good PCV system. Now I have rod knock on my fresh build. This sounds like the exact issue that I have. I hope all I need to do is put new connecting rod bearings in...