1G 14b to 16g Upgrade

[Billy Ciano]

I am planning on replacing a cracked exhaust manifold, and figured I'd upgrade my turbo in the process.

EBay has "kits" which include manifolds and turbos for around 400 bucks.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DSM-1G-2G-4...ash=item27d1221f5b:g:jMUAAMXQvJVRTOBu&vxp=mtr

I am wondering, in anyones experience, are there parts available that I should be considering that are either higher in quality or cheaper in price? If you have done this upgrade, whats the total cost end up being?

 

[jakk220]

I know you are new to the forums, but just contain all your questions that are related to one thread. It makes it easier for people to help you. Do not get an ebay kit, you will regret it when it comes apart and you have to rebuild your engine because you sucked turbo bits into it. Get an MHI 16g used for $300. For 100 bucks less you can have a reliable turbo.

Do not forget you are going to need supporting mods such as a 255 fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, bigger fuel injectors, tuning software for the car, wide band and boost gauges, boost controller, etc.

With the kit in the link you posted I can promise your welds on the manifold will crack and you turbo will be blown in less than 2 months. Maybe even 2 weeks. Hell if it even works on first start up I would be impressed....

 

[93AWDDSM]

I have a S16G eBay with 3k miles around 15lbs boost to redline. I checked the shaftplay and turbine fins every 1k miles. It's a replacement for a broken one, not an upgrade. If your looking to upgrade then definitely get evo 3 16G

 

[PlanZero]

I prefer the quick spoolup of the small 16g over the evo. Put a stock 2g or evo manifold on and run the 14b. The 14b is a good little turbo. You could upgrade to something like a small evo or big 16g but as stated without supporting mods (don't forget fmic) you'll still be running stockish boost.

 

[Billy Ciano]

I just picked this car up from a seller in Orlando and drove it home to Maryland. The car was quicker than expected, but it was very apparent that there is a leak somewhere causing the car to stutter once the boost level starts to rise (according to the stock boost gauge). I removed the heat shield from the manifold and notices a few cracks, but I'm guessing that there are leaks in other places as well.

So, anyway, I can say for a fact that I have not even experienced the full potential of what the 14b can do when it is functioning at 100%, so maybe PlanZero, thats some good advice - just stick with the 14b, swap out the manifold, fix the other leaks and see where I'm at. I'm not fully invested *yet*, so I'm not ready to do all of the supporting mods to take full advantage of an upgraded turbo, I guess.

Thx all for the feedback.

Cheers!

 

[PlanZero]

OK dude you must do a boost leak test before you do anything. Do a quick search for instructions on how to make (about $5 from home depot) and use one. Boost leaks on these cars cause all kinds of havoc, from symptoms resembling exhaust leaks, idle issues, misfires, etc. From nothing more than some leaky hoses. If your car is even close to stock, I guarantee you'll have a few. Fix those first.

Although it's fairly common for stock manifolds to have hairline cracks on the surface, it doesn't mean they're leaking, though the 1g manis are more prone, hence why 1g guys upgrade to a 2g manifold. If you want to be sure, run some seafoam through a vac line and you'll see all your exhaust leaks magically appear.

 

[19gsx91]

I will say this, if you have the extra money to spend I'd recommend getting a 2g exhaust manifold or an evoIII manifold if you can find one.

 

[Reverendlimeter]

Based on your symptoms, definitely perform a boost leak test. After that, then look at the hotside of the turbo - remove the O2 elbow and look for cracks at the wastegate flapper hole. 2g manifold is a cheap upgrade if your manifold is actually broken.

 

[doubleclutch]

Do not forget you are going to need supporting mods such as a 255 fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, bigger fuel injectors, tuning software for the car, wide band and boost gauges, boost controller, etc.
.

Don't let him scare you, injectors, tuning device and a fuel pump rewire is all you need for 16G

I have a S16G eBay with 3k miles around 15lbs boost to redline. I checked the shaftplay and turbine fins every 1k miles. It's a replacement for a broken one, not an upgrade. If your looking to upgrade then definitely get evo 3 16G

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/difference-in-power-from-14b-to-s16g.353623/

There is about a potential 50Hp difference. E316G would be about 400 max where the S16G would be about 350 max and the 14b 300 max. Getting to the max of either will require a lot more though (FMIC, E85, Pump, etc). I will say 300 hp is a pretty good time.

 

[93AWDDSM]

@doubleclutch I would never run a eBay 16g for performance or trying to max it. It even says it's intended for a replacement, not an upgrade and anything past 21lbs could seriously reduce the turbos lifespan.

Evo 3 I would run the hell out of, as well as a 14b.

 

[19gsx91]

Don't let him scare you, injectors, tuning device and a fuel pump rewire is all you need for 16G

Doubleclutch is correct.. for a "mild" car - 20ish psi. Injectors, rewire and a proper tune would be a good time indeed for only a few hundred bucks. anything beyond that and Jakk is correct, you will need far more in the realm of supporting mods.

FWIW when I bought my GSX I said I wasn't going to mod it that much.. a few years and thousands of dollars later.. yeah. Best advice I can ever give anyone - plan your build ahead of time. I've shuffled through at least 7 different turbos because I couldn't make a decision and it's wasted thousands of dollars. If I could do it all again I would of stuck with the evoIII 16g.

 

[doubleclutch]

Doubleclutch is correct.. for a "mild" car - 20ish psi. Injectors, rewire and a proper tune would be a good time indeed for only a few hundred bucks. anything beyond that and Jakk is correct, you will need far more in the realm of supporting mods.

FWIW when I bought my GSX I said I wasn't going to mod it that much.. a few years and thousands of dollars later.. yeah. Best advice I can ever give anyone - plan your build ahead of time. I've shuffled through at least 7 different turbos because I couldn't make a decision and it's wasted thousands of dollars. If I could do it all again I would of stuck with the evoIII 16g.

I have an E316G right ow that is far from maxed out. It makes for a damn good street car.

 

[2G@wD]

Ok here's my situation, I bought a eBay turbo 16g, I bought it just to get my car running since my stock was bad, is there any tips I do to help make sure the eBay turbo last long as possible just until I get a real turbo?

 

[boostdawd]

Keep the boost low and frequent oil changes.

 

[doubleclutch]

Feed it from the head, not the oil filter housing.

 

[93AWDDSM]

EBay 16g here, 15lbs, 3.2k miles so far. Shaft play is the same as when unboxed. Nothing special just a replacement.

 

[2G@wD]

How are you driving the car? Are you babying it? Or are you driving it hard? .... Just look for info, to help get me a better idea of what to expect

 

[93AWDDSM]

Most days hard, to 6.5 mainly, sometimes redline. Multiple pulls depending on the amount of gas I have to waste, I do live where the weather is cooler though so that's why I do many pulls. It has 208k, my normal shifting is 3-4K.

 

[mrt0mjones]

Ebay parts are fine as long as you dont mind wrenching more on the car.

I've been using a welded 16g (ebay) for over a year with little to no issues (some smoke occasionally).

Just make sure feed and return work well and check your oil consumption.

 

[93AWDDSM]

OP did you ever Do a BLT and fix the issues? How's the 14b if so?

Ebay parts are fine as long as you dont mind wrenching more on the car.

I've been using a welded 16g (ebay) for over a year with little to no issues (some smoke occasionally).

Just make sure feed and return work well and check your oil consumption.

How much boost do you run? I would never take a eBay turbo past 21 lbs, if that. Not trust worthy but a DD with low boost would be cool as I have a 16g eBay and like stated above posts it does alright at low boost.

 

[JackStieben]

If this changes your mind, my car (evo3 16g) lost in a race against a 1g gsx with the stock 14b and no mods except 272 cams and speed density. 14b is a good turbo and can be pushed to a decent power level.

 

[mrt0mjones]

OP did you ever Do a BLT and fix the issues? How's the 14b if so?



How much boost do you run? I would never take a eBay turbo past 21 lbs, if that. Not trust worthy but a DD with low boost would be cool as I have a 16g eBay and like stated above posts it does alright at low boost.

I've been peaking at 28psi. it holds steady at 26.

I drove it for an entire month in the winter (when my 535xi was down).

It's fine as long as you run good oil and pay attention to your tune / temperatures. It hasnt let go yet but I can tell i'm pushing a tiny bit through the journal.

 

[2G@wD]

OK dude you must do a boost leak test before you do anything. Do a quick search for instructions on how to make (about $5 from home depot) and use one. Boost leaks on these cars cause all kinds of havoc, from symptoms resembling exhaust leaks, idle issues, misfires, etc. From nothing more than some leaky hoses. If your car is even close to stock, I guarantee you'll have a few. Fix those first.

Although it's fairly common for stock manifolds to have hairline cracks on the surface, it doesn't mean they're leaking, though the 1g manis are more prone, hence why 1g guys upgrade to a 2g manifold. If you want to be sure, run some seafoam through a vac line and you'll see all your exhaust leaks magically appear.

Is their any physical difference between a stock 1g manifold vs 2g I have another ceramic coated manifold that was given to me by my buddy, he had a bunch of spare parts since he upgraded his turbo and manifold. Just want to know which he gave me, not sense in putting a 1g manifold on my 2g..i would think..

 

[Billy Ciano]

Check the outmost bolt holes. If they are larger than the holes on the inside, its a good chance its a 2G manifold. If they are all the same size, its a 1G. There are a few threads on here describing folks who used washers to compensate for the larger holes to add the 2G manifold to their 1G DSM.

 

[2G@wD]

Ebay parts are fine as long as you dont mind wrenching more on the car.

I've been using a welded 16g (ebay) for over a year with little to no issues (some smoke occasionally).

Just make sure feed and return work well and check your oil consumption.

I believe my turbo is consuming a lot of oil...my oil pressure is runs high sometimes on my stock gauge, but I've heard ppl say the stock gauge is crap... But I've even notice the pressure is popping my dip stick out o little ... Everything is stock except for the (eBay) 16g