14b Limits?

[ihatedsms]

i went 12.3 @ 112 and my car has yet to be tuned, that was on stock injectors as well, now i put some 550s in and am goin to have it tuned on the wideband... and recently upgraded to an act 2600 and a race trans, so hopefully with the tuning and gettin a lower 60ft i will be in the 11s, i also need to get some agxs in the back...that should help me out

stevetalon..... do you run drag radials at the track and do you have a weld center diff?

and... i heard you usually go to atco raceway, it opens march 3 i think, if you ever go you should let me kno, id really like to see your car and meet you, im ther alot usually when its open runing my car

 

[tstkl]

why are you using a non turbocharged fuel pressure regulator?

also, all the questions you asked stevetalon, what about you?
you using drag radials, do you have a welded center diff?

you spent 4 grand on your transmission?!?!?!?!?!?! please tell me your old one died on you

 

[92DSMErdrick]

I've been following this thread and have been really pleased on what I'm hearing about the 14b. I've come along way from being N/T to what's been done to the car now. I almost wanted to beleive that the 14b was holding me back greatly. . .but in reality it has great potential. Last year i didnt get to run on the track b/c i didnt have an SAFC or any methods of tuning and i didn't want to risk damage to the new rebuilt engine. This spring/summer i'm looking into getting a ported/polished head along with ported intake manifold from someone i know. also gonna throw comp 101200's in with the head. I think when i pick that up im gonna port my turbo housing to 7cm and port out my 02 housing more and maybe look into inlarging the wastegate flapper.

It sucks in a way that Im FWD N/T tranny. . .yet again running ACT 2600 which helps out alot. What do you guys think im capable of doing with these mods plus what i listed above:
ACT 2600, RC 550cc Injectors, Aeromotive FPR, ARP Head Studs, 3g revised lifters, 2g MAFS, 2.5" hi-flow Cat back exhaust, ported 02 housing, SS oil feed, Crushed 1g BOV, Turbo XS mbc, Walbro 255 HP(rewired), SAFCII, FMIC (23X6X3. END TO END IS 35") Custom 2.5" IC piping

Thanks. .. .Matt

 

[screwdgie]

Well I attempted to install my fuel pump last night.... I couldn't break loose that damn fitting on the fuel line, and the line was bending. So I thought if i could get the cap off the tank, I would have more flexibility trying to break that damn fitting loose. So I sprayed the hell out of the nuts with that rust-eater stuff, and let it sit for a while.

Well, the first of the 6 nuts came off. Then I proceeded to break 3 nuts. So I said screw it, don't want to risk breaking any more studs. So I called DevoTuning to see if they could install the pump for me, but they said I need a new gas tank because of those damn broken studs. I don't know what to do anymore, I can't afford to spend anymore money on this car. I've spent so much on repairs and bs on this car that I can't stand it anymore.

 

[ihatedsms]

why are you using a non turbocharged fuel pressure regulator?

non turbo fpr bumps up the fuel pressure by alot, its a cheap mod instead of buying a fancy adjutable one. i went 12.5 with just that and stock injectors and no fuel control, but now i have an afc... dsmotorsport used one on there 11sec 14b car as well..

also, all the questions you asked stevetalon, what about you?
you using drag radials, do you have a welded center diff?

when i last ran my car i didnt have a welded center diff but i do now..
and i still have normal street tires. That is one of my big problems, no traction, and messed up 2nd gear.. i need to get my 60ft in the 1.6s should help me out and run a lower 12 becuase i have a pretty good mph


you spent 4 grand on your transmission?!?!?!?!?!?! please tell me your old one died on you

i didnt spend 4 grand on a trans.... haha yea right, its a race tranny but i got mine used off a friend for 900 ..

ive been threw 3 stock trannys

 

[ihatedsms]

usually them fittings rust really bad... you can go under the car and at the back of the tank youll see the other end of that line with another fitting.. this one shouldnt be all rusty and you can undo that one easyer. its the same line just a foot or so down....

as for the broken studs as long as you have the other ones youll be ok, i have 3 broken studs right now and it seals fine just try not to break anymore

 

[screwdgie]

Thats what I'm afraid of... breaking more . What would I do if i break anymore? I really cant afford to buy another gas tank right now. My friend said we could just jbweld it... but that seems kind of ghetto to me.

 

[Steve93Talon]

stevetalon..... do you run drag radials at the track and do you have a weld center diff?

and... i heard you usually go to atco raceway, it opens march 3 i think, if you ever go you should let me kno, id really like to see your car and meet you, im ther alot usually when its open runing my car

I'm on Falken Azenis Sports (stock size). I have a 4 spider center diff in a JNZ Tuning built trans. We're shooting for March 3rd at Atco, I "should" have my car ready by then. If not, We'll still have Tort's car and probably a few others from PhillyDSM.

 

[ihatedsms]

We're shooting for March 3rd at Atco, I "should" have my car ready by then. If not, We'll still have Tort's car and probably a few others from PhillyDSM.

thats kool im, def gonna be there the day it reopens, hopefully ill ihave my car ready by then as well i just need to find a 4 bolt rear, becuase i kno the first time i launch it on the 3bolt is gonna take a crap

 

[JessesTalon]

I ran 23 pounds at one time on my 14b... it was a solid 12 second car, I don't think you will do it with stock intercooler... but with nitrous it could easily be done

a gst in phx runs 11s on a t-25... (slicks nitrous up the wahzoo and guted like mad if i remember correctly)

Well my plan as of now is to run a mid-high 12 with the 14b, stock cams, stock injectors, and stock intercooler. Many have told me it can't be done, but I am sure I can do it.

My first question is, what should be the most boost I can safely run with the 14b on a 190 pump? My guess is about 17-18 psi. Of course I will log it after I install it , but I want a general idea.

I am currently having a boost creep problem so i bought the dpconcepts boost creep kit http://www.dpconcepts.com/BoostCreepKit.html. I am also in the process of getting ahold of a 7cm ported exhaust housing. ( I dont want to hear any stupid comments about the boost creep kit because i have heard from some people that tried it, and it works for them. Plus its only $30 so either way i dont care)

So I am trying to get rid of my boost creep .

My temporary plan right now is to run about 15 psi on the stock clutch, then when i upgrade, turn boost to 18. Of course only if i can keep my knock down.

Also, what is the limit of the 14b in terms of power / boost/ 1/4 miles times? I know someone has ran a 10, but Im not going that crazy.

Thanks for the time,
Shane

 

[tstkl]

wow, not liking what just happened. tried to make a 3rd gear pull and hit fuel cut at around 4000 rpms if i remember correctly. maybe sooner. in my pull from 2218 to 5093 rpms it hit fuel cut three times. almost evenly spaced out. anyone with a high flowing intake system have this same problem on the stock pump and injectors. (10 psi, maybe a little more, but less than 11)

http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214611

if anyone wants to help, thanks

 

[ihatedsms]

I don't think you will do it with stock intercooler... but with nitrous it could easily be done=)

you can do it on the stock intercooler, dsmotorsport went 11.9s on one, steve93talon has a modified side mount, my friend had a stock one and ran 12s..... it can be done.

it really isent that hard to run 12s as long as you have exhaust a dumptube, fuel pump and clutch, and can drive and run 22psi you should def run low 13s high 12s with out even being tuned

people slap bigger turbos on thinking there cars are gonna be sick, not realizing all the sopporting mods thell need to run the turbo, then once they have everything they think they can tune it with an afc and run 10's its really not that easy

thats why i love the 14b becuase its simple and a simple set up, that dosnet even need much tuning, just turn the boost up and drive good

 

[endlessMyk]

As Spidey said, I have DSMLink.

And, as Steve said, advancing base timing is the only real way to adjust timing without better engine management.

Edit : Also, all of my numbers are on 93 pump gas. Just didn't want to confuse anyone since most people in here are talking about race gas.

Seriously... you are on of my heros..


Think having the 7cm turbine housing on a 14b would help some?

I'm gonna be back in PA next week. Going through PIttsburgh, should try and get ahold of eachother.

 

[Coup D E'Tat]

Seriously... you are on of my heros..


Think having the 7cm turbine housing on a 14b would help some?

I'm gonna be back in PA next week. Going through PIttsburgh, should try and get ahold of eachother.

Why, thank you

Yes, I think it'd help the top end a little. I hogged mine out to match my 7cm EVO manifold.

Where are you going through/heading?

 

[endlessMyk]

Why, thank you

Yes, I think it'd help the top end a little. I hogged mine out to match my 7cm EVO manifold.

Where are you going through/heading?

I'm actually going down to Blairsville to visit some family. My dad said something about heading down to Pittsburgh one night.

 

[tstkl]

just realised that on wednesday night I made a few 3rd gear pulls and thought my datalogger was on, turns out the hotsync wire wasnt plugged into the datalogger wire. no fuel cut then, but then the injectors were set to 480cc injectors, and now they are turned down to 450cc injectors with no other changes made. can you simply flow to much air at 10psi with a high flowing intake system on a 14b?

 

[GreenGSX]

At the shootout two years ago my car went 12.5 at 109mph with a 14b. The turbo was beat and although it would spike to 26psi it would fall to 21psi over 5k. The car was 3325lbs with me in it. On pump alone it would run 12.7-12.9 at up to 107ish mph. With a 50/50 mix of 110 and pump it would run the 12.5 time above. A month after the shootout the turbo died and I replaced it with a EVOIII 16g.

 

[Caithness]

I ran a 12.8 at 105.5 on pump. More detail in my profile but basic mods:
2200lb ceramic/kevlar clutch, ACT flywheel
K&N, MBC
Ported Evo Mani/14b/Evo 02
3" downpipe with electric cutout, stock exhaust but I had dropped the exhaust at the track
Walbro 255hp and also on the NT FPR bandwagon- more fuel and no overrun, gotta love it
Basic weight reduction- no front bumper, no sound deadening, no back seat, manual seatbelts, a few other things but still mostly full interior and an amp and speakers on top of that.

And also stutterbox/no lift to shift burning custom eproms. I can do fuel and timing too, but at the time I was on stock maps with just injector compensation for the NT FPR.

I was getting major knock in 4th gear on 15 psi that was killing my mph. Also, I was on steelies with really bad 14" tires but I managed to get a 1.7 sixty.

Then I put some 110 in it and got a 12.7 at 108.5 turning the boost up to ~17-18 ish. My knock went away and my mph went way up but traction went away and my sixty went into the 1.8's. Also, boost was falling off up top in a real bad way. I turned the boost up more but went slower my third run. Turns out my turbo was loose the whole time- all bolts backed out after being properly torqued the week before.

I'm hoping to get the thing back out the track in the next month. I've got some RX-7 wheels with 225 falken ziex tires, I'm putting new bolts and a new gasket on the turbo and safety wiring them so it can't possibly fall off, and I've been tuning the fuel and timing. I'm hoping to turn at least 107 mph on pump and at least 110 on race, and do some low 12's on 1.6 sixties.

 

[sleepyvr4]

12's are easily achievable with the 14b. You can't say enough about timing. You guys running 24 degrees are nuts though. I've seen over 30 degrees at the track and on the dyno with a little bit of race gas. All tuning done with gm maft and cas.

I ran this on 93/94 pump gas however (full weight, a/c, stock motor):

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then with a 94/100 octane mix I ran consistent 12's - same setup on the car - and the act 2100 was on its way out. The best pull I had was this 12.5:

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The next spring I dynoed my car at slowboy with the exact same setup - 94/100 octane mix. Running 25/26 psi which fell to 21ish both on the dyno and at the track.

Taking fuel out and advancing timing I made more power and torque each run:

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Here you can see boost and all the hard numbers as well:

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since then I have done a little bit of work. Balance shafts have been removed. Minor portwork of the head, 7cm housing swap, etc. Hoping for 350awhp and low 12's (with keydiver chip). I'm going to be tuning this time with c16.

 

[sleepyvr4]

my numbers at the track and dyno were on a motor with 130psi compression. I have since freshened up the head and have 155-165psi across the board.

Since I've done the work I have been able to run more boost with the 14b. I've held 28psi in colder weather. With the head work and 7cm housing the motor actually feels like it's making power up to redline - as before at the track I never shifted above 6500 rpms.

 

[Caithness]

So you were running 30 degrees timing on the last pull? That's nuts. What's the usual MTBT (minimum timing for best torque) on a 4G63t with high enough octane that you can crank it without sacrificing boost? I was going to run much more conservatively on race gas even after I get my front mount on- I was guessing mtbt would be in the 24-26 range, and I was going to run ~12:1 afr and ~22 psi. Guess I'll have to do some research.

 

[tstkl]

when you guys say that the n/t fuel pressure regulator give you more fuel without having to buy a more expensive aftermarket one, what do you mean? does it allow for a higher fuel pressure at wot while keeping the same base pressure at idle? or is the base pressure at idle higher, but the n/t fpr wont be overrun by that higher pressure? I am currently having a lot of problems with fuel cut at 10psi and can't imagine what they would be like once I turn it up to 20 psi on race gas. how can I get my air fuel ratio right, yet keep the maf from telling the ecu I'm flowing 1600+ hz. it looked like I was running a little rich so I took some fuel away at wot, but I am hitting fuel cut at 10psi, so if that 5% I took away gets rid of fuel cut at 10psi, I doubt it will at any higher psi anyways. still on the stock fuel system, but I have a vr4 fuel pump I have yet to install. hopefully Ill get to that this week and see what that does.

wish I had dsmlink +wideband o2. that would solve my problems really quickly.

 

[91LaSerTurBo3]

the leaner the air/fuel mix, the faster you usually go, so ive heard, but you also run a greater risk of blowing your engine!

fuel cut is based purely on air count, to fix your fuel cut issue, your going to have to mess with your maft. i might suggest hidding some more air from the ecu

 

[screwdgie]

Talk about bringing a thread back from the dead.... . Long story short, the best I could muster was a 13.1@107 on 93 octane thanks to some shitty tires and trans was going out. Trans ended up blowing a couple weeks later, and I was forced to sell the car =(

 

[91LaSerTurBo3]

too bad, what where you running in the car?