14b and stock pump limits?

[New2tuning]

How far can I take my 14b and stock fuel pump (rewired) with a 2g MAF and 550s? Is it not worth the trouble for me to toss the injectors and MAF in until I get a bigger turbo and fuel pump? The car is a 91 TSi with minor mods, all the free ones and a conquest FMIC.

 

[GVR4592]

Every car is different. Get a datalogger and increase the boost until you see knock, then back off the boost a little.

 

[Ultimatedsm]

First of all, why do you have 550 cc injectors with a stock rewired pump?? The stock pump can't even out flow the 450 cc injectors. I recommend getting a 190LPH at least, with that fuel pump and injectors you can run 20 psi of boost, however, I recommend getting a FMIC because 20 psi on the 14B will be hot .

 

[New2tuning]

The 550s are not in my car yet, and I do have a FMIC. What I was asking is should I wait until I get a bigger pump before putting these in. I heard you can run them with a stock re-wired pump, I just like to ask around and get as much info as I can before I jump into something.

 

[Eastwood95]

Basically, just wait until you get a fuel pump to install the injectors. 550's on the stock fuel pump even rewired wouldnt make much of a difference. Hopefully you'll have SOME way of tuning when you put them in..........then you can safely turn up the boost........from your last posts, i have the feeling that you're not a true newbie and you already know that.........

 

[Ultimatedsm]

Stock pump can only flow enough for 16 psi of boost and thats the limit. You will see its running a little lean but not enough to blow your motor. 550cc injectors will outflow your fuel pump even rewired with no problems, it will be a waste of money putting those in before a sufficent fuel pump. So you know what you should jump into, a search botton just kidding, I don't want to be rude. Anyway go here:
http://www.roadraceengineering.com/eclfuel.htm

Half way in the page, you will get your answer

 

[oldman]

2G MAS and 550s will still require safc and logger, I sense that you were just going to put them in without fuel managemant.

 

[beatshack]

i ran the 14b to 18psi on the stock fuel delivery, but that was just for one day. It didn't knock at all, but I'm on Canadian 92 octane w/ethanol and -5 degree celcius ambient air temp, and colder range plugs.

To a DSM wiseman:
On a related note: I am preparing for an evo3 16g to replace my 14b. So far I've collected: 550cc injectors, 190lph pump, fmic. I already have the logger and safc installed. Would a 2g MAS give me noticable gains over using my stock one?

 

[vertGST]

I am on stock pump unrewired pump and stock injectors on my 2g. On a normal day i can run 18 psi. If its a winter night over here where it dips into the high 40's then i hit fuel cut. I do drive a 2nd gen though. It all depends because out of everyone that i know over here that is doing what i do, I am the only one having no problems.

 

[reveal1123]

unrewired

haha

 

[trapspeed]

Get a logger and then find out.

 

[oldman]

On a related note: I am preparing for an evo3 16g to replace my 14b. So far I've collected: 550cc injectors, 190lph pump, fmic. I already have the logger and safc installed. Would a 2g MAS give me noticable gains over using my stock one?

The 2g mas is a lot less restrictive then the 1g maf but the main reason for the 2g mas is not immediate HP gains, rather it will allow you to run higher air flow without overrunning the stock 1g maf. That said, you will need 650s in order to see the maximum potentials of the EVO3 16g.

Get a logger and then find out.

Very good but did you get yours yet?

 

[trapspeed]

The 2g mas is a lot less restrictive then the 1g maf but the main reason for the 2g mas is not immediate HP gains, rather it will allow you to run higher air flow without overrunning the stock 1g maf. That said, you will need 650s in order to see the maximum potentials of the EVO3 16g.


Very good but did you get yours yet?

I sure did. A well spent $120.

 

[vertGST]

haha

i am serious

 

[oldman]

i am serious

Just because you don't feel a problem doesn't mean it's not there, are you logging? Before you say "but I'm not hitting fuel cut", hitting fuel cut has nothing to do with your capacity to deliver fuel, if you think you can just turn the boost up until you hit fuel cut, you're greatly mistaken.

 

[vertGST]

sir i know what i amk doing thank you. I have dyno tuned the car and all is well. I know what it is capable of and I pushed it on the dyno to see where i am at and logged it as well. I am currently running 15 psi of boost because it is way safe to do those
Thanks.

 

[beatshack]

The 2g mas is a lot less restrictive then the 1g maf but the main reason for the 2g mas is not immediate HP gains, rather it will allow you to run higher air flow without overrunning the stock 1g maf. That said, you will need 650s in order to see the maximum potentials of the EVO3 16g.

Well I'm on a very tight budget. As long as I can run about 20 psi on the evo3 with just 550's, an safc and a re-wired 190, I'm happy. I'm not sure I understand how you can overrun the 1g stock maf. Enlighten me?

 

[oldman]

I'm not sure I understand how you can overrun the 1g stock maf. Enlighten me?

When you reach its maximum flow capacity, you will know this when the airflow reading starts to jump around.

 

[beatshack]

when you say maximum flow, you are talking about air intake flow correct? (eg. if i made a ram air style intake)

 

[oldman]

when you say maximum flow, you are talking about air intake flow correct? (eg. if i made a ram air style intake)

The maximum air flow though the MAF in a given amount of time. In other words, the maf gets overrun when your system outflows the maf's ability to count.

 

[DSM90AWD]

Just a little techi-speak to supplement, the Mitsubishi MAS has a chamber within that creates and counts "vorticies" which along with temperature and ATM pressure is used by the ECU to derive MAS airflow.

When too much air is passed thru this chamber, the "vorticies" become unstable and the MAS cannot accurately count them. It is at this point the MAS is said to be overrun, and if datalogging airflow Hz, you will see it bob up and down.

The 2G, 3G and EVO MAS have a much larger chamber, hence their ability to accurately measure higher airflows (they however, output a different Hz so the ECU needs to be recalibrated)

 

[oldman]

Damn wisemen.

 

[Ultimatedsm]

Well said, with 550's you should have the AFC at -10 all across for starters, this will also help with "fuel cut" problems because the ECU will see less air this way. Sometimes a boost leak feels like a fuel cut, so BOOST LEAK TEST!! Thats what Oldman would say By the way Oldman you are slacking off, you no longer tell people to do a boost leak test, I guess I'll have to do it then

 

[oldman]

Well said

What? "damn wisemen"?

Sometimes a boost leak feels like a fuel cut, so BOOST LEAK TEST!!

Someone didn't pay attention in class. Little leaks feels like fuel cut to someone who has never experienced fuel cut but big leaks will caused fuel cut.

 

[bryanwheat]

Did anyone know that a stock pump with -8an line from the pump to the fuel rail will outflow a walbro 190 on stock lines. Just in case this helps anyone out. Stock fuel system is so restrictive, not just pump the banjo fitting that comes out of the filter it has a whole that is very very very small, a fuel line upgrade is one of the best fuel system upgrades that i have found so far.