11's or Nothing (14b record new setup)

[Phil1320]

Good luck! I would think the 2600 would hold. The less your car weighs the less you'll stress things.

I am shooting for the number 2 14b record. DSMotorsport just upped the ante on me, and I think we're only going to make one more trip to the track and sell the car. Just .45 away from it. (Edit oops they used Nitrous still .25 off the #2 no nitrous record)

Beware if you use all that spray nobody will give you credit for anything. There will always be an asterisk next to your record, a yeah but...

I say go for it. Spray the hell out of it. Don't do it to impress others. Do what you want with your car.

Sounds familiar. The only numbers that interest me are the no NOS numbers. So, I guess we're shooting for the same 11.64, 10.84 seems like a long shot, but, who knows. At least you've got 11's nailed down. Last weekend I went 12.02@115 with a 1.89 60'. I normally run 1.65-1.70. So once I can get the launch back down where it used to be, I should be there. Should. Good luck gettin it, nice to see some other guys out there trying to dethrone the Kings again!

Phil

 

[Phil1320]

I'm going to see if I can get my 14b car out once this year and crack off at least a low 13 or 12...next year it's slicks and praying for 11's...I've got the weight out but there is a lot of tuning left to do.

Shane, you should roll 12's no problem, even full weight I was running as quick as 12.50's. Do it! Good luck!

Phil

 

[dsmfa9nutter]

IMO, you can't get the 14b record if you use nitrous. Take a stock engine and throw a 300 shot on it, yeah, you'd run 11's (once or twice) and you could say you used a 14b but it's completely different than doing it on boost alone.

 

[SBstar]

Shane, you should roll 12's no problem, even full weight I was running as quick as 12.50's. Do it! Good luck!

Phil

My problem is going to be the crappy nitto NT-450's and the fact I've never been to the track before. The weight and the parts are there...just not the traction and driver We'll get some 11's out of her eventually and I'll be up there fighting with you guys.

 

[x3whlmotion240]

nice set up

 

[Phil1320]

IMO, you can't get the 14b record if you use nitrous. Take a stock engine and throw a 300 shot on it, yeah, you'd run 11's (once or twice) and you could say you used a 14b but it's completely different than doing it on boost alone.

Agreed. with asuch a small turbo and such a big NOS shot, it may as well be an NA 4G63 at that point and it would most likely be just as quick.

 

[Phil1320]

My problem is going to be the crappy nitto NT-450's and the fact I've never been to the track before. The weight and the parts are there...just not the traction and driver We'll get some 11's out of her eventually and I'll be up there fighting with you guys.

I've run 1.70's on Nitto NT450's back in the day, they should be ok for you depending on your power/weight/pressure. No track experience will keep you in check for a while. If you are serious about it, you will pick it up and run with it. The first two times I was ever at the strip I could not muster better than a 2.0 sixty foot time. I SUCKED. The third trip to the strip I dropped into the 1.8's after many after dark practice sessions on one of my area's more deserted roads......

Good luck!

Phil

 

[rhamlinii]

IMO, you can't get the 14b record if you use nitrous. Take a stock engine and throw a 300 shot on it, yeah, you'd run 11's (once or twice) and you could say you used a 14b but it's completely different than doing it on boost alone.

You guys are a trip to say the least. You act as if nitrous is a sin or something. Shep runs 7s in a full uni-body 4cyl car, who cares how he does it? Yet, you have no problum making tin cans out of cars with platic windows, 1 gallon fuel cells, and putting a 14b on it. I say what's the point, if it's no longer a street car. I must be the only one that feels that way? Anyone can run 10s with a sub 2000 pound car and 300+ whp, as long as the car can 60ft. With only 350whp some all-motor car are running deep into the 9s. All i'm saying is that after tommorow (Imports Vs. Domestics), I will change everything to make my car a 14b/nitrous car. When it's tunned and running well, it will make some times. Regardless of how I do it, i'm doing it for me and everyone else who cares. In the end i'll either run the times or blow the bi*** up trying.

F.Y.I- I only look as Nate and Leon as holding the 14b record. Joe has both nitrous and non-nitrous records hands down, only because he's really the fastest and quickest.

Street car- Any car with tags, that can be driven on the steet. That if they choose, they could compete in Nopi's True Street class (you can chek the rules) and be able to go on a 30 mile cruise. To me that is as far as you can go with a street car and still call it a street car.

 

[Phil1320]

I'm not sure quite what you are getting at with your post.

My talon is no longer a street car as of this year. The stock turbo has never been removed and still has more to offer as far as ET goes. My car is definitely becoming a tin can, but reduced weight = quicker car for no $. That's why I started pulling weight a long time ago. Cars that weigh more than 3000 lbs. are not fun to drive in my book, especially on the street. But, that's me. So, with the Talon, I'm gonna pull as much weight as I possibly can. Not only for speed reasons. For braking, and for BREAKING. I know there are plenty of guys out there that like to run full weight "street cars." I can respect that, it's just not my purpose. I have had multiple larger turbos on my shelve including EVO 3 16 and FP Green. They never made it on the car and were sold. I couldn't bolt one of them on knowing I hadn't maxed the potential of the stock 14. I guess I'm gonna run it a little longer as I know for sure there's more left. The car has run reliably for the 11+ years I've owned it as well..another reason not to mess with that integrity.

Anyway, I wish you luck, really, but, I'd rather see what you've got without the squeeze myself. Like I said elsewhere, Nate's car was 12.4@109 with no NOS.....a quick 14b car, but that's it.


Phil

ps--I don't think NOS is a sin....on a street car it doesn't make sense, full race, sure. On the street......I used to wonder why none of the Mustang guys wanted to race after 10pm? Bottles were already empty...heros to zeros is what I used to say.

 

[rhamlinii]

I'm not sure quite what you are getting at with your post.

My talon is no longer a street car as of this year. The stock turbo has never been removed and still has more to offer as far as ET goes. My car is definitely becoming a tin can, but reduced weight = quicker car for no $. That's why I started pulling weight a long time ago. Cars that weigh more than 3000 lbs. are not fun to drive in my book, especially on the street. But, that's me. So, with the Talon, I'm gonna pull as much weight as I possibly can. Not only for speed reasons. For braking, and for BREAKING. I know there are plenty of guys out there that like to run full weight "street cars." I can respect that, it's just not my purpose. I have had multiple larger turbos on my shelve including EVO 3 16 and FP Green. They never made it on the car and were sold. I couldn't bolt one of them on knowing I hadn't maxed the potential of the stock 14. I guess I'm gonna run it a little longer as I know for sure there's more left. The car has run reliably for the 11+ years I've owned it as well..another reason not to mess with that integrity.

Anyway, I wish you luck, really, but, I'd rather see what you've got without the squeeze myself. Like I said elsewhere, Nate's car was 12.4@109 with no NOS.....a quick 14b car, but that's it.


Phil

ps--I don't think NOS is a sin....on a street car it doesn't make sense, full race, sure. On the street......I used to wonder why none of the Mustang guys wanted to race after 10pm? Bottles were already empty...heros to zeros is what I used to say.

, I like that heros to zeros after 10pm. That's pretty funny, and if you want to build a track car that's you. I can understand that, and more power for you. If that's the case, I'm scard you'll probaly end up like Sbstar and that's just sad. I've seen your car before, and it was striking to be that clean. I don't know Sbstar at all and it's not personal. His car's pictures bugs the "####" out of me. I can't believe he would go that extreme to run 11s on a 14b. Hell, i'll donate a turbo to him because that's how much it really bothers me. Atleast you and other do it with some class, even shep had to do what you've done. He just runs 7s, I don't see the point just to run 11s? You could easily have done 11s, with a slighty better 60ft 3 years ago. If you could have cut a 1.5 60ft with your 12.02 run, you would've hit 11s. I couldn't even do that to run 10s. Now for 9s, the gloves may really have to come off. I'll have some times without the bottle first to dial everything in nice and easy. So only time will tell what will happen. My car is only a street car because i'll drive it on the street. That is really a matter of opinion because that car is "lightened" somewhat. It is currently in Nopi's Turbo Street trim, with-out spray. Maybe I can weigh it tommorow.

 

[biglady112]

Well what about the boys from arizona in the FWD 2G's. They are using nitrous on their T-25's. One car ran a 10.8 or 10.9 and the other a 11.4. I was thrilled to hear about them doing that. They basically just built their cars for nitrous and had a little boost behind it.

I personally won't use nitrous, as I like to keep things EXTREMELY simple. If I am not going fast enough, I need a bigger turbo or more boost. But that is me. I don't feel negative about it at all. Use nitrous and lets see what you can do. Good luck and giterdone.

Steven

 

[SBstar]

Wow...I'm going to not take offense to those comments simply because this is the internet. My car was never pretty...I bought it as a pretty sad looking 1g for the purpose to race it and race it only. Have you ever been to the track before and looked at most of the "budget race cars"? I'd love to have the money to make my car pretty but some people don't have that luxury. Perhaps next year I'll be able to make it look clean for ya. But everyone has their own likes and dislikes. I'd like to run 11's on the 14b with no nitrous on a budget...Some people won't like the extremes I go to...on the other hand alot of people don't like you using nitrous...you do what you have to do and I wish you luck.

 

[bullettdsm]

Well what about the boys from arizona in the FWD 2G's. They are using nitrous on their T-25's. One car ran a 10.8 or 10.9 and the other a 11.4. I was thrilled to hear about them doing that. They basically just built their cars for nitrous and had a little boost behind it.

I personally won't use nitrous, as I like to keep things EXTREMELY simple. If I am not going fast enough, I need a bigger turbo or more boost. But that is me. I don't feel negative about it at all. Use nitrous and lets see what you can do. Good luck and giterdone.

Steven

Yup, I knew this thread would head this way. The nitrous w/turbo vs the turbo alone argument. On the bright side, I'm familiar with pretty much all the parties posting here and they get great respect from me for understanding each others postion . No hatin' here.

This thread pretty much covers all the arguments and positions;

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132183&highlight=t-25+record

I have my opinion, but hoping we can keep it all there?

SBstar, WT EFF are you thinking? TAKE the turbo rhamlinii wants to donate to you. {whispers} you can then send it to me

rhamlinii, good luck at Imports vs Domestics tomor.., er, today.

MB

 

[SBstar]

Oh yeah if he wants to donate a turbo to me...I gladly accept! I'll pm you my address haha

 

[Phil1320]

, I like that heros to zeros after 10pm. That's pretty funny, and if you want to build a track car that's you. I can understand that, and more power for you. If that's the case, I'm scard you'll probaly end up like Sbstar and that's just sad. I've seen your car before, and it was striking to be that clean. I don't know Sbstar at all and it's not personal. His car's pictures bugs the "####" out of me. I can't believe he would go that extreme to run 11s on a 14b. Hell, i'll donate a turbo to him because that's how much it really bothers me. Atleast you and other do it with some class, even shep had to do what you've done. He just runs 7s, I don't see the point just to run 11s? You could easily have done 11s, with a slighty better 60ft 3 years ago. If you could have cut a 1.5 60ft with your 12.02 run, you would've hit 11s. I couldn't even do that to run 10s. Now for 9s, the gloves may really have to come off. I'll have some times without the bottle first to dial everything in nice and easy. So only time will tell what will happen. My car is only a street car because i'll drive it on the street. That is really a matter of opinion because that car is "lightened" somewhat. It is currently in Nopi's Turbo Street trim, with-out spray. Maybe I can weigh it tommorow.

I only recently decided that the car would no longer be of use on the street. In the past several years I have driven the car less and less on the street. Last year was about 26 miles. That's not even worth the price to insure it! But, for many years, the Talon was a street car and I have lots of great memories in the late 90's and lots of great kill stories as well. My talon is definitely one of the greatest cars I've ever owned, and it is obviously the one I have the most history with. So, I do cringe at the status I have now given it.

Thanks for the props on my car...where did you see it? Capitol Dragway the one night I ran it when living there working at Extreme? Anyway, I've always tried to keep the car as clean as I can and I have refrained from abusing it in any way except launching and shifting at the strip. Before a few weeks ago I might have been trailered to the track by a friend once or twice. The night I took the 14b record from Leon, I drove 100 miles to the strip went 12.30, 12.18, 12.14, 12.053 to take the record by 1/1000, and then secured the record with the 12.02. And drove home. I was by myself the whole night as none of my crew could make it for the Wed. night.

Now, I don't know what you mean about Shane's car. I have not seen the pics, although would like to.

And yes, better 60's in the past might have netted me 11's 5 years ago...but, it wasn't meant to be.


So, I'll watch to see how today went...

Later,

Phil

 

[Phil1320]

So, how'd it go? ..................been waiting to hear from this past weekend...

Phil

 

[rhamlinii]

Sorry i've been so busy, I couldn't run the car at all on sunday. The car was running perfect all of saturday night and it was tuned at 27 psi. Started the car up on sunday, and loaded the car up with everything needed extra pure c16, tools, and extra parts. Took the car out on sunday morning to go, and it was breaking up bad. I changed the plugs, and it was still breaking up and now shutting off. I tried to log with the link, but I couldnt even connect. Finally, after hours later I was moving around the ecu and the car was clicking. I thought my ecu was fried, comes to find out that the dsmlink chip had came lose some way, some how. The ECU was laying on the floor and my brother must of touched it with his foot or something. I made it down there at 4:30 pm and misssed qualifying and the 1st round elimanation. So everything went to hell on sunday. I want to go to Capitol or any track that may be open this weekend and see what times I may get before I take all this shit apart.

Some guy had an auto 20g running 10.9 at 127. My friend Mr Thope won wicked street with his GN. My friend Rick won Ture Steet againt my friend B.Y.E Jared. Congrats to all of them, and B.Y.E Turbo Jay for representing a 9.98 pass with a street driven CRX.

 

[Phil1320]

Damn......sounds like bad went to worse. That sucks man. At least you may have a few more chances at it this year. I would have to drive to ATCO south Jersey if I want to run again this season which most likely will not happen for many reasons. I wish I still lived in MD so I could be 17 miles from a dragstrip again. Closest is 100 miles away. Also, if you took offense to anything anyone said up here about what you're trying to do, don't bother. I catch crap from all angles in my area here. The old school DSM crowd is no longer and alot of the new guys love to talk smack. I've been used to it for years, but, never from fellow DSMrs. Usually the Mustang clowns or whatever. I've never let em stop me, and never will. Well, I'll be hanging around....so, if you get the chance to rip it, let us know......good luck!

Phil

 

[bullettdsm]

So everything went to hell on sunday.

Crap! Well sometimes the car just does not want to go to the track

I want to go to Capitol or any track that may be open this weekend and see what times I may get before I take all this shit apart.

How far are you from Island or E-town in Jersey? E-town's got a muscle vs imports challenge this sunday (or saturday race for that matter). And I may be going to Island for test and tune on sunday (get my last fix in with the daily driver).

MB

 

[dsm-onster]

Finally, after hours later I was moving around the ecu and the car was clicking. I thought my ecu was fried, comes to find out that the dsmlink chip had came lose some way, some how. The ECU was laying on the floor and my brother must of touched it with his foot or something. I made it down there at 4:30 pm and misssed qualifying and the 1st round elimanation.

ZIF sockets work wonders. It's just a suggestion.

 

[rhamlinii]

ZIF sockets work wonders. It's just a suggestion.

Whatever dsmlink came with is what i'm running, so thanks buddy.

 

[dsm-onster]

Whatever dsmlink came with is what i'm running, so thanks buddy.

They install the typical press-in sockets.

The ZIFs (Zero Insertion Force) are what the 240 guys do (drifting) and the rally guys do (he!!a bouncing). They "lock" the eprom. It may be worth the $30 (plus ZIF socket) or so to have it done.

Pulling out my eprom and memory card several times (dsmlink problems) caused my socket not to hold a chip/card very well. The added weight of the card especially did numbers on tight radius turns. It felt like fuel cut!

If it needs significant pressure to be reinserted and isn't sloppy when jiggled, then I wouldn't worry. But if it does, or it mysteriously comes loose again, I'd take a look at doing this.

 

[rhamlinii]

Crap! Well sometimes the car just does not want to go to the track

HAHA, yeah but it has no choice seeing as how I just got done some much need manitence. I changed the fuel filter, air filter, oil and filter, and tranny, t-case, and rear diff fluid today. I then lauched the car on 6500rpm anti-lag and disturbed all of people on my block. It spun really bad, but I still got it into 2nd. I'm ready for whatever at this point.

How far are you from Island or E-town in Jersey? E-town's got a muscle vs imports challenge this sunday (or saturday race for that matter). And I may be going to Island for test and tune on sunday (get my last fix in with the daily driver).

No, sorry I missed that. but i'm going down to Capitol Raceway this weekend. Sunday, I guess i'll finally see if the 20g has anymore in it from the 11.8 pass. I wish I could go low to mid 11s. Whatever it runs i'll post up. I plan to put the 14b stuff on after that, and get back to the topic at hand.

 

[GRNDSM]

Guys, years later I have a somewhat different perspective on the entire thing! Yes, my engine was "build" (a standard stage 2 SBR block with a ported head and 272 cams), but I really think that this had very little to do with anything!

As a matter of fact, many of my mods were probably hindering my performance on such a small turbo! But no one ever wants to hear or believe that . Here is the thing, my 14b (which were actually several different 14b's) could not keep the high boost. It didn't matter where I had it set, the boost would drop down to ~12psi (much like T-25). And this phenomenon has gotten worse and worse as I added mods to my car! Could have I have made more power by having more appropriate mods, which might have allowed me to run higher boost? Perhaps... but we will never know...

Next point is about tuning. All of my 14b records were set using good old VPC. When I tried using AEM, I quickly realized just how inadequate my AEM map for the low boost (under 20 psi). You can't just take AEM cal file, which did great at 30-33psi and expect to make decent power under 20 psi... But this showed just how good VPC was under 20-25psi!

This might sound counterintuitive, but if you want the best 14B tune "out of the box", you might get that with the VCP! I am sure that eventually you could achieve better results with AEM or DSM Link, but expect to spend a lot of time on the dyno!

As for the entire Nitrous vs. no Nitrous debate, I respect ALL fast cars, but using Nitrous takes the turbo size out of equation. You just have a fast car with turbo AND nitrous...

It is also funny how people used to give me grief about having a gutted car. At 2900lbs, it was ~300lbs lighter than most street cars, but take a look at today's gutted cars! They make my car look like a heavyweight.

Lastly, I have just tried racing on full slicks for the first time in my life. Those things are simply AMAZING (1.41 60' time on a cold October night!!!)! I could have easily shaved off .2 sec off my 60' time and well, you know what that equates to in the ¼ mile ET...

 

[99gst_racer]

Lastly, I have just tried racing on full slicks for the first time in my life. Those things are simply AMAZING (1.41 60’ time on a cold October night!!!)! I could have easily shaved off .2 sec off my 60’ time and well, you know what that equates to in the ¼ mile ET…

What kind of slick? Which brand? Was it a DOT slick?