11's or Nothing (14b record new setup)

[Slippi84]

First I will say you have to know what your doing to make a small turbo go as fast as most of you have gone. I see gt35r guys running high 11's and what not with essentialy 3 times the turbo you have. Whoever said a fp green is a big turbo hasn't seen a gt42r in person though . Anyway I don't see why nitrous matters. The guys saying nitrous negates any record or makes it a yeah but thing should go talk to muscle car guys. They look at us with our turbos(well you now that I sold my tsi and have a 420a ) and say the same thing about you and you defend it to the grave that they have big motors you have turbo's so it's equal. Why doesn't the you have abigger turbo I have nitrous argument work then? Then of course some of you will say well I did it with the SAME turbo not a bigger turbo. More power to you your great tuners but that doesn't make the guy that uses nitrous any less a tuner just he chose a diffrent setup. In my mind I go to the track the guy that gets to end of the track the fastest is teh fastest. I don't care if he put a jet engine in there he's still the fastest. DOn't like it or think it's cheating or what not that's only cause you didn't put a jet engine in your car. You want a real challenge that's fair then see who can take a stock car and either take stuff away or adjust what's already on there and go the fastest. Now that would be a good challenge. see who can take a stock tsi and with maybe a boost controller and better tires and break into the 11's.

 

[GRNDSM]

The slicks that I tried belong to a fellow New England DSMer. He let of a bunch of locals try out his tires and pretty much all of us set our best ET with these tires

I believe they are these tires:

http://www.mandhtires.com/store.php?crn=71&rn=332&action=show_detail

They are 8.5/24.5-15.

The difference between these slicks and Quick Time Pro’s (“cheater slicks”) is startling! I have spent the entire season racing on QTPs, getting the best of 1.49 60’ time and that was under IDEAL conditions. Typical 60’ times were in the 1.55 second range.

M&H give 1.42 on a 40 deg October night! That is .15 quicker than I would expect on QTPs!!!

 

[Slippi84]

The slicks that I tried belong to a fellow New England DSMer. He let of a bunch of locals try out his tires and pretty much all of us set our best ET with these tires

I believe they are these tires:

http://www.mandhtires.com/store.php?crn=71&rn=332&action=show_detail

They are 8.5/24.5-15.

The difference between these slicks and Quick Time Pro’s (“cheater slicks”) is startling! I have spent the entire season racing on QTPs, getting the best of 1.49 60’ time and that was under IDEAL conditions. Typical 60’ times were in the 1.55 second range.

M&H give 1.42 on a 40 deg October night! That is .15 quicker than I would expect on QTPs!!!

Wow what kinda axles are you running man Cause I"m looking into a set of race only tires I would have on sepperate rims for weekend use but don't want to break my axles?

 

[99gst_racer]

The slicks that I tried belong to a fellow New England DSMer. He let of a bunch of locals try out his tires and pretty much all of us set our best ET with these tires

I believe they are these tires:

MandHTires.com

They are 8.5/24.5-15.

The difference between these slicks and Quick Time Pro’s (“cheater slicks”) is startling! I have spent the entire season racing on QTPs, getting the best of 1.49 60’ time and that was under IDEAL conditions. Typical 60’ times were in the 1.55 second range.

M&H give 1.42 on a 40 deg October night! That is .15 quicker than I would expect on QTPs!!!

Thanks for the info, Leon. I assume your QTP's are a 26" tire?

 

[GRNDSM]

This was on stock axles.

QTP's are 26" tall tires, vs 24.5" for true slicks. Personally, I think that 26" tires are too tall.

However, if someone is after a record on a small turbo, you might even try the 23" slicks. That will give you a better gear ratio and you will not be at the redline at the top end because of relatively low power (bigger turbos require taller tires because of higher trap speed).

 

[h8r]

OK.. Someone should try to crack that with a GST /TSI fwd....... Then it would be impressive.... 175 hp shot of nitrous with a well prepped 14b 1 g awd? I dont seem to think it would be that hard... There are ls1 fbodies with stock internals/ bolt on running low 11's with a hell of alot more weight, and no boost! I think alot have just bypassed the great little 14b because it is easier to do it with a larger more efficient turbo ( @ 20lbs and higher).

 

[99gst_racer]

This was on stock axles.

QTP's are 26" tall tires, vs 24.5" for true slicks. Personally, I think that 26" tires are too tall.

However, if someone is after a record on a small turbo, you might even try the 23" slicks. That will give you a better gear ratio and you will not be at the redline at the top end because of relatively low power (bigger turbos require taller tires because of higher trap speed).

Well, you've seemed to answer my next question. I have been debating which tire to use for my AWD 14b car. It was between a 26" QTP, or a 24.5" Mickey ET Drag. I'd love to stay with a DOT tire though, but it's getting tough finding something that is smaller than 26" and DOT approved.

Do you or anybody you know have experience with an AWD 14b on 22" slicks?

 

[GRNDSM]

Well, you've seemed to answer my next question. I have been debating which tire to use for my AWD 14b car. It was between a 26" QTP, or a 24.5" Mickey ET Drag. I'd love to stay with a DOT tire though, but it's getting tough finding something that is smaller than 26" and DOT approved.

26" QTP is probably the worst tire for a 14b car! You will have a crappy launch (because of relatively how torque) and then, you will spend a LOT of time in 3rd and 4th gears, where you are not making much power!

Do you or anybody you know have experience with an AWD 14b on 22" slicks?

Sorry, I haven't heard of anyone using 22" slicks on any DSM. I would immagine that it will make your first gear terribly short!

 

[SBstar]

So you think the 23" would work well eh? Thanks for chiming in here Leon as we are all chasing your lead.

 

[GRNDSM]

So you think the 23" would work well eh? Thanks for chiming in here Leon as we are all chasing your lead.

No problem, as you guys know, I have never kept any secrets from anyone!

I used 23" (or was it 23.5") BFG drag radials. They were OK, but nothing like these slicks! 23" slicks should do well on a small turbo car. But even the 24.5" slicks should be fine. I can't see how you can go wrong with ether tire (on a smaller turbo).

But I would not get a 23" tire for anything faster than 10.0. However Curt B. might disagree with me on this .

 

[Phil1320]

Whats up Leon? Nice to see you up here. I just want to say that I did have some good results from my last outing with the 14b and wanted you to see where they came from even though ET wasn't one of them. In case you missed it somewhere, the changes I made from three years ago were:

ACT Flywheel
DSS drive shaft
FP Race Mani
EVO FMIC

I remember you saying you didn't think an FMIC would help. After running a month ago I can't see how it didn't as my previous best MPH was 113.32 and now my best is 115.57 with a low of around 114.2. Obviously, I changed more than just the intercooler, but the way the car feels at the top of third and fourth is the noticable difference. The car used to stand down pretty bad. Anyway, just a tidbit. Now I have the launch issues with my shitty drag radials.......my best 60' was 1.79. I went 1.89 to a 12.02 at NED, I couldn't hook that well there either. So, I went with slicks for next year. If what you say about them is true, I should pick up several tenths if I can learn to drive on them.

As far as gutting, I thought my car was one of the most gutted, but not so. I still don't have your doors on the car, which would help and I have side window lexan that is not in probably good for a few more lbs. There are some other things still on the shelf like the balance shaft removal kit and FP1 cams. But, before all that would like to go just get the car out of the hole better, I'd be happy with 1.6's, anything better, great.

The car made amazing power...baseline at 16 psi it ran 285 HP and 290 TQ, at max it was 295 HP and 337 TQ....so this round of mods did the job.

Anyway.......it's all in the launch............

Phil

 

[theebluecrx]

With joe bucci running 10.8@126 with a 14b and fwd 9's should be attainable with a awd.He did it with a stock longblock and cams.I tried a racecar and after 2 broken trannies and axles i gave up.Good luck joe is no longer after the 14b record since he was sponsored by Fp.Knowing joe personally and seeing the car after each stage it wasnt a easy task.His personal website will probably get you guys the best info on his car.

 

[Phil1320]

With joe bucci running 10.8@126 with a 14b and fwd 9's should be attainable with a awd.

I would beg to differ.....

1. Joe cuts 60' times better than all of the 14b AWD cars
2. Would be tough to get an AWD cars' weight to match the weight of Joe's car with him in it
3. Still have more driveline lag in the AWD

In full race trim the FWD platform surpasses the advantage of AWD at this level of performance.

Phil

 

[shortydtp]

theres should be no problem hitting some 10s with a 14b hell i had run 11.0's! and my buddy is running 10.80's on stock T25s! both FWD

Good Luck!

 

[Phil1320]

theres should be no problem hitting some 10s with a 14b hell i had run 11.0's! and my buddy is running 10.80's on stock T25s! both FWD

Good Luck!

Thanks, we'll see. Aren't you guys squeezing some nitrous on those stock T25's?!

You may be right about hitting 10's on the 14b with AWD, but it will be all turbo power no squeeze.


Phil

 

[bullettdsm]

Thanks, we'll see. Aren't you guys squeezing some nitrous on those stock T25's?!

Correct Phil, the turbo is pretty much just part of the exhaust sytem. I'll reference this thread again for the sake of arguement:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/drag-strip/132183-11-1xx-t-25-a.html

MB

 

[theebluecrx]

I would beg to differ.....

1. Joe cuts 60' times better than all of the 14b AWD cars
2. Would be tough to get an AWD cars' weight to match the weight of Joe's car with him in it
3. Still have more driveline lag in the AWD

In full race trim the FWD platform surpasses the advantage of AWD at this level of performance.

Phil

Have you seen joe?He's not the skinniest guy around and driveline lag?I hope you mean drivetrain loss?I know a rear end weighs 300lbs give or take but i'm pretty sure a awd c50 should easily beat the current 14b record done right.....

 

[Phil1320]

Correct Phil, the turbo is pretty much just part of the exhaust sytem. I'll reference this thread again for the sake of arguement:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/drag-strip/132183-11-1xx-t-25-a.html

MB

Ok....I remember that now.....I knew I read it somewhere. So, what he's saying is really not relevant to what I'm trying to accomplish.................

Phil

 

[Phil1320]

Have you seen joe?He's not the skinniest guy around and driveline lag?I hope you mean drivetrain loss?I know a rear end weighs 300lbs give or take but i'm pretty sure a awd c50 should easily beat the current 14b record done right.....

I've only seen Joe in pics and I know he's not a tiny guy, but he stated his total race weight was 2200lbs. Pretty cut and dry. I might be able to get my car down to 2200lbs. if I tried, but most likely not.

LAG , LOSS what ever you want to call it dude...

Whelp, I guess you know a bit more than me about all this, if you think the current 14b can be EASILY beaten than show me someone who can do it.....

Phil

 

[99gst_racer]

2. Would be tough to get an AWD cars' weight to match the weight of Joe's car with him in it

I know a rear end weighs 300lbs give or take but i'm pretty sure a awd c50 should easily beat the current 14b record done right.....

Any idea how light a 1G AWD can get? I can only see a couple weight differences between my car and Joe's.

* AWD drivetrain components
* He has a 5 pt. roll bar, and mine is an 8 pt. Assuming we both used moly tubing, his will be about 15 lbs lighter
* I still have a glass windshield

Other than the above, we've done the same weight reduction modifications. I'm curious to know how light an AWD 1G can get while still retaining the factory unibody platform, and also, does anybody know the weight of Joe's car? I didn't see it listed on his website.

 

[biglady112]

Just for the record for the guy above with the 300lb rear end. The whole subframe, pumpkin and bracketry weighs just under 100lbs. Toss the axles in and that would put you at what another 25 or so pounds. So on the high side 140lbs for the whole rear dsm setup.

Steven

 

[Slippi84]

Bottom line your not adding weight even 140pds and running .9 seconds fast period.

 

[GRNDSM]

Just for the record for the guy above with the 300lb rear end. The whole subframe, pumpkin and bracketry weighs just under 100lbs. Toss the axles in and that would put you at what another 25 or so pounds. So on the high side 140lbs for the whole rear dsm setup.

Steven

+ Driveshaft ~ 30lbs
+ Transfer Case ~45lbs
+ AWD tranny ~25lbs heavier than FWD tranny

So you left out around ~100lbs...

Going right to the original factory specs, AWD cars were ~250lbs heavier than the FWD counterparts...

 

[Slippi84]

+ Driveshaft ~ 30lbs
+ Transfer Case ~45lbs
+ AWD tranny ~25lbs heavier than FWD tranny

So you left out around ~100lbs...

Going right to the original factory specs, AWD cars were ~250lbs heavier than the FWD counterparts...

That's not even including the driveshaft

 

[99gst_racer]

+ Driveshaft ~ 30lbs
+ Transfer Case ~45lbs
+ AWD tranny ~25lbs heavier than FWD tranny

So you left out around ~100lbs...

Going right to the original factory specs, AWD cars were ~250lbs heavier than the FWD counterparts...

That's not even including the driveshaft

Huh? You must have missed Leon's first sentence....