Your most recent welding pics

[99gst_racer]

My god is that ever beautiful Paul! Those Treadstone pieces are pretty awesome indeed. On a side note, I love the wrinkle finish on the compressor housing too.

Glad you like it. The black wrinkle is great looking. He had his VC and SMIM done in it too, so it's going to be a great looking engine bay.

Thats amazing!!! A ss collector thats cast???? Advband? Nice. I would have used mild steel for te head flange though to avoid ripping out the studs

Ripping out the studs? I don't follow...

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

Glad you like it. The black wrinkle is great looking. He had his VC and SMIM done in it too, so it's going to be a great looking engine bay.


Ripping out the studs? I don't follow...

Think urban means it might warp? Guess he sees the flanges and v'band flanges steel and they always say to help with warping, maybe I misunderstood him aswell but seems like he might be thinking this

Oh and Paul guess you purged them correct? Any pics of the inside? If possible of course

 

[Archer Fabrications]

The ss flange will warp, when it warps, it pulls the studs out of the head. Hasnt happened to me personally but ive heard of it happening to others, thats why STM uses all mild steel flanges. It also helps with sealing better to the head.

Its also sort of funny how everyone uses 304ss for manifolds (mainly a cost thing) because at the EGT's we see and the heat cycling, the chromium is burned out just as if too much heat was used when welding. Ever wonder why you manifold turns to crap looking? (Purple, then eventually a burnt brown color) Even thought its "stainless" some
Of the corrosion resistance is gone from the hear thats why.

Not saying its a bad thing. But i guess thats why some people using higher 300 or even 400 series stainless and inconel, dont really change color when heat cycled in the car, keeping its high corrosion resistance.

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

The ss flange will warp, when it warpa, it pulls the studs out of the head. Hasnt happened to me personally but ive heard of it, thats why STM uses all mild steel flanges. It also helps with sealing better.

This is true unless its been machined with stress points or the flange between the ports are seperated as that helps it but on that flange I dont see that but it could be mild steel so hopefully Paul will tell us what it is,

 

[Archer Fabrications]

He said it was treadstone cast stainless flanges and collector.


The manifold
Looks really really good regardless. Hope it was purged and all.

 

[FIBA M - EC17PSE]

The ss flange will warp, when it warps, it pulls the studs out of the head. Hasnt happened to me personally but ive heard of it happening to others, thats why STM uses all mild steel flanges. It also helps with sealing better to the head.

Its also sort of funny how everyone uses 304ss for manifolds (mainly a cost thing) because at the EGT's we see and the heat cycling, the chromium is burned out just as if too much heat was used when welding. Ever wonder why you manifold turns to crap looking? (Purple, then eventually a burnt brown color) Even thought its "stainless" some
Of the corrosion resistance is gone from the hear thats why.

Not saying its a bad thing. But i guess thats why some people using higher 300 or even 400 series stainless and inconel, dont really change color when heat cycled.

Every grade Changes color, and why 400 stainless? Thats worse then 304 unless im thinking of something different but I am pretty sure its more rust prone aswell. The best manifold stainless for turbos are 321, inconel stil. Changes color but its not about that its about what it can handle and not how pretty it looks in a color haha

He said it was treadstone cast stainless flanges and collector.


The manifold
Looks really really good regardless. Hope it was purged and all.

Oh I missed the flange part, d'oh

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Heres an example of what im talking about. My DNP manifold

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3500 miles later

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2000 more miles later

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The same thing is happening with my STM manifold. Its inevitable with 304
But it still lasts a long time the fact my stm is sch10 and not 16 gauge like the DNP helps things.

The color changes because the metallurgy of the material cha ges as its heat cycled.
Chromium and nickle is burned out eventually leaving you with the rust properties of mild steel.

Example again. Had some virgin cold rolled ss sitting out side next to the DNP after i wire brushed it... After a week, the manifold with 5k miles on it started to develop surface rust, the virgin cold rolled ss tube was still shiny. No rust.

Im not saying that there are metals that wont change colours (even higher grade. Stainles with higher levels of chrome and nickel) when heated, the colour isn't really the issue, its more why/ how fast it changes and what happens at a molecular level.


Btw: higher grade stainless will usually mean more chrome and less carbon. Meaning more corossion resistance.


Also for the manifolds that crack, that is usually due to a few things

1. Poor material/chineese steel
2. Improper weld procedure
3. Improper filler
4. Heat cycling (when rapidly heated and cooled) will harden the manifold and make it brittle as shit. So when you buy an ebay manifold and use it for a little while, and couple that with the massive vibration/weight that is hanging off these things, its no wonder a manifold that was supposed to be ductile and crack resistant, turns hard and brittle/crack prone.

 

[99gst_racer]

Exhaust manifold studs seem to pull the threads out of the head pretty easily anytime anyone gets a little overzealous with a wrench. I know I've personally done it several times. Which is also why every hole on my head is heli-coiled.

But if a warped flange were to ever pull out a stud from the head, I'd be highly suspect of the hole already being thread damaged. I can't see mild steel being resistant to warp enough from 304 to cause any measurable difference. I would think hanging 120 lbs of turbos and steel off the head would have a greater chance at pulling studs from the head, and John and I have been doing that without issue. I've also seen severely warped stock manifolds that didn't pull studs out.

And yes, we did packpurge the header above. I'll see if I can get a pic of the inside of the runners/collector next time I'm over at Dan's house. We kept the header bolted to a junk cylinder head while welding and afterward when loosening the nuts, it was evident that the flange stayed very flat throughout the welding process. the treadstone has a thicker brace that runs through the center of the length of the flange and that really seems to do its job of keeping the flange flat.

I've uused mild steel and SS in high-heat exhaust applications, and I can attest that even a very old, very used SS manifold will be far more resistant to corrosion than mild steel. Mild steel corrodes very quickly in a high-heat, wet exhaust environment.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Exhaust manifold studs seem to pull the threads out of the head pretty easily anytime anyone gets a little overzealous with a wrench. I know I've personally done it several times. Which is also why every hole on my head is heli-coiled.

But if a warped flange were to ever pull out a stud from the head, I'd be highly suspect of the hole already being thread damaged. I can't see mild steel being resistant to warp enough from 304 to cause any measurable difference. I would think hanging 120 lbs of turbos and steel off the head would have a greater chance at pulling studs from the head, and John and I have been doing that without issue. I've also seen severely warped stock manifolds that didn't pull studs out.

And yes, we did packpurge the header above. I'll see if I can get a pic of the inside of the runners/collector next time I'm over at Dan's house. We kept the header bolted to a junk cylinder head while welding and afterward when loosening the nuts, it was evident that the flange stayed very flat throughout the welding process. the treadstone has a thicker brace that runs through the center of the length of the flange and that really seems to do its job of keeping the flange flat.

I'm gonna look into these flanges. did you have any trouble welding on it? thje fact its cast and porous? i havent gotten to weld any cast material yet. the holes are round to accomidate the sch10 yes? and just out of curiosity. any reason you didnt make your own collector? ive tried once so far and its a pain in the ass


edit: those flanges and collector are an awesome idea!!!!! the head flange is much cheaper than a vibrant also.

 

[99gst_racer]

I'm gonna look into these flanges. did you have any trouble welding on it? thje fact its cast and porous? i havent gotten to weld any cast material yet.

Most cast steels weld very nicely. It's iron and some aluminums that suck. The cast 304 Treadstone flange welds like the sch-10 weld-els. Even with cast stuff, weldability really boils down the the quality of the material.

Another thing I really like about the flange is that it has a built-in oval-to-round transition like the old AMS flanges. So, we didn't have to mess around with trying to oval the sch-10 tubes to get a good transition.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Most cast steels weld very nicely. It's iron and some aluminums that suck. The cast 304 Treadstone flange welds like the sch-10 weld-els. Even with cast stuff, weldability really boils down the the quality of the material.

Another thing I really like about the flange is that it has a built-in oval-to-round transition like the old AMS flanges. So, we didn't have to mess around with trying to oval the sch-10 tubes to get a good transition.

stm has the oval to round also, its expensive though. i guess i have welded cast sch10 stainless... i do have some weld els haha. i guess nevermind. i have a vibrant flange ive been wanting to use... but i am gonna sell it now because there is no oval to round.. and i dont want to bend the weld els i have.

 

[spoonman]

Stainless steel has a low carbon content, the carbon is what makes the ss hard. But when chrome-nickel SS is heated at 1000+ degrees up the carbon content in the SS combines with chromium to form chromium carbides. This is called carbide precipitation (just like when it is welded) this reduces the corrosion resistance of SS. 321 SS is a low carbon content steel and resists carbide precipitation better than a higher carbon content SS like 304.


Inconel is a super alloy with a very high nickel content. It is best suited for forced induction exhaust manifolds. But it is extremely expensive and hard to acquire high quality material. It is also welded incorrectly quite often.


So in short yes the SS does "break down" buttttttt carbon steel manifolds literally fall apart in forced induction applications due to severe heat retention. And the carbon steel literally scales and sloughs off from the inside off the pipe, goes through the turbine and out the exhuast.

Ever wrap a carbon steel exhuast manifold and put a lot of hard miles on it? Weigh it before and after. It will be surprising lighter.

 

[wishihadatalon]

The ss flange will warp, when it warps, it pulls the studs out of the head. Hasnt happened to me personally but ive heard of it happening to others, thats why STM uses all mild steel flanges. It also helps with sealing better to the head.

Its also sort of funny how everyone uses 304ss for manifolds (mainly a cost thing) because at the EGT's we see and the heat cycling, the chromium is burned out just as if too much heat was used when welding. Ever wonder why you manifold turns to crap looking? (Purple, then eventually a burnt brown color) Even thought its "stainless" some
Of the corrosion resistance is gone from the hear thats why.

Not saying its a bad thing. But i guess thats why some people using higher 300 or even 400 series stainless and inconel, dont really change color when heat cycled in the car, keeping its high corrosion resistance.

That is an awfully harsh generalization of metallurgy. Chrome depletion (sensitization) is really a function of carbon content. Carbon and chrome bond to form chromium carbides but that is assuming that the base material and filler is absent of stabilizers like columbium or titanium. Also 304L is low carbon which makes the possibility of forming chromium carbides even less likely. The place where you may see this would be at a mild steel head flange. Generally what you will see here is rapid corrosion in the heat affected zone due to the lack of the oxide layer on the stainless.

As for 400 series, you would be hard pressed to find a 400 series material that out performs most 300 series materials, though there are some pretty unique castings coming out soon that should do well. There is a reason OEMs use 400 series for most exhaust manifolds, its good enough. That being said, even the fabricated OEM turbo manifolds (early SHOs) had a 300 series inside jacket and a 400 series outside jacket for the air gap.

Paul, the issue that you would see with pulling studs would be from the amount of thermal growth that you would see with an austenitic stainless flange. Thats not to say that it will happen, it is just more likely.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

It's general cause im still learning

 

[taz4432]

nice welds....that dude must have a TINY pair of feet

I've actually got pretty big feet and I can heel-toe in the car as-is, but there is NO room for error...I just wanted the extension so I could have a little more security when pushing the car at ten tenths. If you've ever had a foot slip off the brake pedal - even for a split second - coming into a turn hard, you'll know exactly why, especially at road course speeds (I road course, not auto-x - except at the SO).

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Have you mocked it up to make sure it is the clearance you need? Or if you need to grind some off?

 

[taz4432]

Have you mocked it up to make sure it is the clearance you need? Or if you need to grind some off?

Haven't touched the car since mid last week...had too much other stuff on my plate. Going to go at it tonight. Definitely going to grind it a little smaller and more shapely, then rubber coat it. I'll send you the post-grinding pics and the post-coating pics.

 

[Sirnixalot]

I don't have any experience on a circuit so I can't speak to that. I didn't realize you would be trimming it down and such. Hope it works out for you the way you want!

 

[Gamble97]

Anyone wanna buy a regulator for 28 shipped

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[Archer Fabrications]

Is it new? I actually just damaged my set screw if more is damaged then that i might be interested.

 

[Gamble97]

It came with my welder and I never used it.

Dual flow meters on the cheap!!!
[ame=http://www.ebay.com/itm/171091787598?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_nkw%3D171091787598%26_rdc%3D1]Dual HTP Argon CO2 MIG TIG Flow Meter Regulator Welding Weld Double Backpurge | eBay[/ame]

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Passed one the flat mig on the left, failed the horizontal mig on the right because of the crac in the middle
####in hate mig .

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[YZFR1]

Does anyone on here have any experience with WP-26 tig torches?

I have a problem where i can't get the back cap put enough pressure on the collete for it to vice itself inside the collete body and tighten the tungston securely in place. I tried different tungstons and collets from AirGas and every time i try to assemble the tig torch the tungston just keeps moving up and down without being secured no matter how much i tighten the back cap. I really think its something with the torch itself. Anyone had any similar issues?

 

[ed1380]

I have the wp26. It holds the tungsten fine. Have you tried it without the oring?

 

[YZFR1]

Thanks for a quick response! Just tried it with no o-ring with the same result. Does your back cap screw in flush with the torch? On mine i can still see the o-ring when i get it as tight as i can, i was told that's normal but i dunno.