Will not idle when warmed up

[chad6159]

Have been messing with the CAS for the longest time trying to get the timing right becuase i thought that would be the problem. The car runs fine when the engines cold but once it warms up it wont idle it just turns off and wont start unless i give it a lot of gas and once i let go of the throttle it turns off. also when i turn the lights on and heater on the idle drops really low like to 400 or 500 and wants to cut out or does cut out. I have checked the battery with a volt meeter and when its off the volts are a little over 12 then when i turn the car on the volts go to a little over 14, but when i turn the lights and heater on the volts go down to 13.5 or around there. So doesn't that rule out the alternator being bad? so what would be going on? Thanks alot ahead of time!

 

[92AWDHX40]

Terry's Talon Troubleshooting Tips #3 - Fast Idle (aka. Idle Surge) These are some idle issues, altenator and idle no. That thread should tell you all about idle and what causes it and how to fix it. Start there, never a exact answer but that should help.

 

[white92talontsi]

If it is idling too low then the alternator will not charge the battery.

sent from my evo.

 

[chad6159]

it wont even idle when it is warmed up. no matter what i do. no matter where the cas is no matter where the biss screw is. the timing belt is aligned perfect.

 

[white92talontsi]

Check compression. Sounds like it could be very low when hot.
If compression is good then I don't know if you have a cat still on the car but usually as the car warms up the cat will get more restrictive.

sent from my evo.

 

[chad6159]

the car doesnt have a cat on it anymore and ill have to do the compression check , but what can you do if its to low'?

 

[92AWDHX40]

If its low head gasket, or rings are bad, not overheating read the post i sent you.

 

[chad6159]

i just replaced the head gasket. and will do.

edit: but my car isnt having idle surge and thats what that link is about

 

[92AWDHX40]

If its turnig of could be lots of things, hg not compression, fuel, lots of things timing, cas, spark, computer.

 

[chad6159]

If its turnig of could be lots of things, hg not compression, fuel, lots of things timing, cas, spark, computer.

didnt really understand that first part

and it does have a 190 fp and 560 cc injectors. also am new spark plugs soon.

 

[92AWDHX40]

It could be lots of things im saying tuning mods for your car it could be plugs not gapped, coil pack, what did you do to the car. Do you haved a logger, timing could be off, cas could be bad. Im stumped, so its cutting off, fuel problem, possibly, vacumm leak, do you have a boost leak tester.

 

[chad6159]

the car has a 16g with 560 injectors and 190 fuel pump. on stock boost, with 3 inch turbo back, no cat. the timing belt came off a month ago and belt valves had to take off head and replaces the two bent valves. with a new timing belt. and no do not have a boost leak tester. checked the timing today and the pins are pointing up and the marks on the cam gears are right on.

vacuum is reading 20 when it does idle so dont think there is a vacuum leak.

 

[92AWDHX40]

So it wont stay on, fuel, cas, get a logger, ecu codes? Could still be a vaccum leak surprised the leask you could find, i found lots i could hear them and see them with soapy water small ones cause issues. Timing dead on mine was too but i had some bent valves any way, I know my way around this car so i know it like the back of my hand. Still do a compression test wont hurt.

 

[chad6159]

i have a logger that came with the car but dont know how it works?? and i dont have bent valves anymore and i dont now becuase vacuum is reading 20 if they were bent it would hang open making a really rough idle and the vacuum would not be 20. and no CEL codes at all.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Vacuum did you check every cylinder after the engine was redone. If some were bent possible to run and shut off. Are you new to these cars? Not getting gas, ecu could be on the way out, altenator and gas dont go together if it gets gas then shuts off somehow sounds like its not gettng gas, how long does the car run when did you have these problems right after build. Did a shop do the timing, you or someone else im trying to say, anything could have went wrong. Looks like a problem maybe a shop could help.

 

[chad6159]

the car is running rich so im sure its not a fuel problem. and me and my buddies dad did the timing every single thing that was supposed to be lined up on the belt was lined up perfectly.and the car runs fine untill it warms up and then it doesnt want to idle at all or even start. sounds like a timing issue to me but everything is aligned we checked everything a thousand times over a month period and jusdt checked it today. maybe the cas is goin bad i have another one i could swap it and see if that makes a difference.

 

[white92talontsi]

the car is running rich so im sure its not a fuel problem. and me and my buddies friend did the timing every single thing that was supposed to be lined up on the belt was lined up perfectly.and the car runs fine untill it warms up and then it doesnt want to idle at all or even start. sounds like a timing issue to me but everything is aligned we checked everything a thousand times over a month period and jusdt checked it today. maybe the cas is goin bad i have another one i could swap it and see if that makes a difference.

Ummmm ..... how rich is the car running?
During cold operation it should run slightly on the rich side. As the car warms up it should start to lean out and go into closed loop.

Have you verified your coolant temp with a logger?


sent from my evo.

 

[chad6159]

uh dont know how rich i have 560cc inject. with a 190 fuel pump. with no way to tune them, well i do have a safc im goin to install but want to get timing right first. so not too rich but its rich. and no havnt verified with a logger i dont have it hooked up. but the dash one doesnt say its over heating or anything.

 

[white92talontsi]

uh dont know how rich i have 560cc inject. with a 190 fuel pump. with no way to tune them, well i do have a safc im goin to install but want to get timing right first. so not too rich but its rich. and no havnt verified with a logger i dont have it hooked up. but the dash one doesnt say its over heating or anything.

Well no Shit. Either put stock injectors back in it or set up the safc.
You cannot run larger injectors without a way to tune them. You are dumping too much fuel.


sent from my evo.

 

[chad6159]

It idled okay before. Plenty of people are running simular set ups as me with out a way to tune the injectors and they have no problem. and how exactly would the car idle fine when its cold but when it gets warm cut out because theres to much fuel? if its gettin to much fuel,enough to cut it off, wouldnt it do it when its a cold start too?

 

[white92talontsi]

it idled fine before.

Must have gotten lucky then. Throw the stock injectirs back in and try it making sure to reset your fuel trims.


sent from my evo.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Before yes, you need to tune those things you cant just throw them in the car. You need a wideband to tell you if your running rich.
Go back to stock for now, and when you have the mods you need upgrade the fuel. Running too much fuel.

 

[chad6159]

i dont have the stock injectors it came with a bigger fuel pump and injectors when i bought it so im not the moron that did it haha. but if its gettin to much fuel, enough to cut it out, wouldnt it cut out when the engine is cold too?

 

[white92talontsi]

No. When the engine is cold it is supposed to run on the rich side anyway.

As much as I hate them your gonna have to wire the safc up and pull fuel out.

sent from my evo.

 

[chad6159]

ya im not a fan of them either but it came with the car also haha.

know anything about installing them or tuning with them?