will be Running BC 280 cams on my car, what springs will be the best

[sethpatch]

ok So I am trying to finish up my car and get it going and have be taking car of all the loose ends, on of which is my valve springs

My setup is:

Motor:
2.3l 6 bolt bored .20 over
Ross piston eagle rods 9:1 compression
all ARP hardware

Head:
6 bolt head
1mm oversized Ferra valve freshly rebuilt
BC 280 cams
BC springs
BC adjustable cam gears
ARP head studs with stock MLS gasket
Magnus smim
FFTEC 75mm throttle body

engine management:
Ecmlink v3 full with speed density

Fuel:
-8an feed, -6 return all steel braided
FIC fuel rail
Aeromotive AFPR
Walbro 450lph fuel pump
2200cc bosch injectors
The fuel hats have had new lines brazed on them and the siphon has been ported out

Turbo:
Holset hx40, completely stock, freshly rebuilt with a 19cm exhaust housing
JMF Fabrication divided t4 top mount turbo manifold
Twin 40 mm Synapse waste gates
Synapse BOV
ets super short route intercooler setup


I have read that alot of people on here have run the BC single springs with TI retainers on these 280 cams and haven't had a problem revving them up high. I called JNZ Tuning friday and they quoted me $360.00 for kiggly valve springs or $435.00 for BC dual valve springs with TI retainers.

Right now I'm just trying to decide what to do about valve springs. I would like the make this car nice and reliable on high hp numbers.

What are you all's thoughts?

 

[Chicken Patty]

Seen many run the Kiggly Beehive Springs with ZERO issues. I run them myself as so do a lot of my DSM buddies. Great springs bro. Highly recommend them.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

The kind of springs that come with a better cam.. I'm running kiggly high pressure springs.

 

[streetraceboi]

Kiggly beehives /close thread

 

[sethpatch]

The kind of springs that come with a better cam.. I'm running kiggly high pressure springs.

Brian crower cams are proven to make good horsepower, and are comparatively cheaper than other brands.

I was leaning more towards the kiggly but wanted some people's opinion, especially people running these cams already. Online Brian Crower says that the single springs with TI retainers that I already have will be sufficient but any company will say that. I wanted to hear from people experience with these cams and what their using.

 

[viperlp01]

In all honesty the Kiggly street setup would also work great. We sell the street combo for $325 and they come standard in our Street and Strip heads. They use the same spring as the Kiggly HP but it does not have the billet spring pad and a titanium retainer. The street setup runs a 7 gram steel retainer(Titanium is 4 grams, OEM is 14 grams)

Its not expirence with a camshaft. It is what a cam of that lift, duration, peak rate of velocity in both open and closing events calls for. The Kiggly streets are recommended to 10.5k RPM and .500 lift which is well above what that cam will make power too.

And FWIW those cams are pretty weak. They have a huge advertised duration but are tiny every where else. Its like they were designed around what they will sound like and not performance. Shoot, Crane 264s have a bigger number @ .050 and more lift.

Your BC280s-
ave. duration 280°/280'
duration @ .050" 218°/216°
LIFT (inches) .422"/.418"
LIFT (mm) 10.71/10.60

Kelford 280s
ave. duration 280*/276*
duration @ .040" 238/230°(notice these measurements are @ .040, they will be about 6* smaller @ .050)
LIFT (inches) .452"/.433"
LIFT (mm) 11.5/11.0

 

[turbo23]

Brian crower cams are proven to make good horsepower, and are comparatively cheaper than other brands.

Ams Evo Cam Test - evolutionm.net

Results

 

[sethpatch]

In all honesty the Kiggly street setup would also work great. We sell the street combo for $325 and they come standard in our Street and Strip heads. They use the same spring as the Kiggly HP but it does not have the billet spring pad and a titanium retainer. The street setup runs a 7 gram steel retainer(Titanium is 4 grams, OEM is 14 grams)

Its not expirence with a camshaft. It is what a cam of that lift, duration, peak rate of velocity in both open and closing events calls for. The Kiggly streets are recommended to 10.5k RPM and .500 lift which is well above what that cam will make power too.

And FWIW those cams are pretty weak. They have a huge advertised duration but are tiny every where else. Its like they were designed around what they will sound like and not performance. Shoot, Crane 264s have a bigger number @ .050 and more lift.

Your BC280s-
ave. duration 280°/280'
duration @ .050" 218°/216°
LIFT (inches) .422"/.418"
LIFT (mm) 10.71/10.60

Kelford 280s
ave. duration 280*/276*
duration @ .040" 238/230°(notice these measurements are @ .040, they will be about 6* smaller @ .050)
LIFT (inches) .452"/.433"
LIFT (mm) 11.5/11.0

what cams would you all suggest. My plans were to run this setup and see how I like it and be somewhat easy on it since I haven't built the drivetrain yet, and maybe upping the hp alittle this winter when i build send everything off to shep or jack. I want a set of cams and springs that will work well with my setup and give me room to grow. I bought these things over 2 years ago and I know alot has changed.

 

[Chicken Patty]

I myself and tons of people have ZERO complaints with Kelford. I love my Kelfords! I run the 272's.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Brian crower cams are proven to make good horsepower, and are comparatively cheaper than other brands.

I was leaning more towards the kiggly but wanted some people's opinion, especially people running these cams already. Online Brian Crower says that the single springs with TI retainers that I already have will be sufficient but any company will say that. I wanted to hear from people experience with these cams and what their using.

They have the lowest quality control, and the most base circle run out of any cam on the market.

They are straight up shit and there is a reason they are so cheap. It's not because other companies are gouging. That a couple people have made power is not testament to their greatness, instead that they won the "blind man grinding a cam" lottery.

Go with Kelford, GSC, Jun, HKS, Crane, or Comp/FP

 

[Chicken Patty]

I myself have seen many people have bad experiences with BC cams. Then again, I know a few making power on them. But doesn't any cam make power?

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

A lot of boost can make "power" on a bad cam, how much you'll gain with a matched cam with tight manufacturing tolerances is the question

 

[sethpatch]

I myself have seen many people have bad experiences with BC cams. Then again, I know a few making power on them. But doesn't any cam make power?

what do you mean by bad experiences? I have been look at kelfords or gsc but was debating on changing them out later, I might just go ahead and do it.

What do you all think about BC cam gears? I have a older set on my car that arw tye ones with jacked up timing marks.

 

[BogusSVO]

It is no secret that I talk with BC, both with Brian and Dustin. When the company was new they had some issues and growing pains when they first open in 2006.

Those issues have been sorted out and tolerances brought tighter.

Here is another Dyno test, that was done by an individual, and not from a shop that sells parts.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...est-delta-hks-272-delta-k272-bc-272-cams.html

It is a long read, with some BS mixed in, But some good tech.

 

[viperlp01]

It is no secret that I talk with BC, both with Brian and Dustin. When the company was new they had some issues and growing pains when they first open in 2006.

Those issues have been sorted out and tolerances brought tighter.

Here is another Dyno test, that was done by an individual, and not from a shop that sells parts.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...est-delta-hks-272-delta-k272-bc-272-cams.html

It is a long read, with some BS mixed in, But some good tech.

Fwiw Dale, You are comparing regrinds... I think the most time consuming, best camshaft comparison out there is the AMS test. Its hard to deny the results in this test... The camshaft grinds compared to the power results match up.

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The Crane cams that are very affordable top the Kelfords in the power number

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[4g63t]

I'm glad I have my bc280's they are cheap and make power. All i ever really wanted in a cam. Not sure how that makes them trash. To each his own.

To awnser the op's question yes, bc springs with be fine for you and kiggly valve springs will work even beter.

 

[BogusSVO]

Viper.. Yes I know the the H272 and the K272 are Deltas Regrinds, The BC272 were true BC272


But we both know how far off one dyno to another dyno can be. Depending on what weather correction factor is used. Also from brand to brand of dyno.

Chassis Dyno Testing - Hot Rod Magazine

1 car, 2 days, 5 dynos, 5 wildly different results.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/427914-cam-shaft-testing-information.html

 

[4g63t]

Viper.. Yes I know the the H272 and the K272 are Deltas Regrinds, The BC272 were true BC272


But we both know how far off one dyno to another dyno can be. Depending on what weather correction factor is used. Also from brand to brand of dyno.

Chassis Dyno Testing - Hot Rod Magazine

1 car, 2 days, 5 dynos, 5 wildly different results.

That’s interesting and why they are designed to be a tuning tool and nothing more, because numbers are not universal in this case.

 

[sethpatch]

Viper.. Yes I know the the H272 and the K272 are Deltas Regrinds, The BC272 were true BC272


But we both know how far off one dyno to another dyno can be. Depending on what weather correction factor is used. Also from brand to brand of dyno.

Chassis Dyno Testing - Hot Rod Magazine

1 car, 2 days, 5 dynos, 5 wildly different results.

So BogusSVO what's your opinion on cams for a high hp stroker motor.

As I said earlier I've read good and bad from almost every cam out there and did alot of research before buying these. This was also a few years ago when I got these.

I do like the info everyone is posting so continue

 

[91stocker]

The AMS test is flawed. The k272's are larger then the bc280's. The bc280's were hit for hit with the k's up to 7k, where then the larger cam pulled away. Which would be obvious.

The bc's made 50hp more around 5k. Was even at 5500 and had the same peak tq as the k's. I'd say that test was pretty positive for the bc's.

 

[JacksonAuto]

But we both know how far off one dyno to another dyno can be. Depending on what weather correction factor is used. Also from brand to brand of dyno.

This. And then factor in all of the variables that cannot be controlled on a chassis dyno and also the operator and you can pretty much toss out most of the results. Tuning tool? Yes. Accurate measure of HP? Nope.

 

[keltalon]

It is no secret that I talk with BC, both with Brian and Dustin. When the company was new they had some issues and growing pains when they first open in 2006.

Those issues have been sorted out and tolerances brought tighter.

Here is another Dyno test, that was done by an individual, and not from a shop that sells parts.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cyl...est-delta-hks-272-delta-k272-bc-272-cams.html

It is a long read, with some BS mixed in, But some good tech.

I agree. Bc have made awesome progress with their cams as well as cam gears. I get many pm asking me what do I think about bc cams. Hands down the 272 is the best cam for the street and that's my solid opinion. I have recommended bc272s many of times over. I send a follow up pm and asked how did they like them I get a thanks in return for recommended them. This must be why bc can't keep the 272 in stock. People can say what they want bc has come a long way with quality since day one. They certainly got my vote.

 

[turbo23]

This. And then factor in all of the variables that cannot be controlled on a chassis dyno and also the operator and you can pretty much toss out most of the results. Tuning tool? Yes. Accurate measure of HP? Nope.

So then how would you accurately measure hp? From our testing. We have run our cars on several different days, with Weather Corrected results within 2% of eachother..

I agree. Bc have made awesome progress with their cams as well as cam gears. I get many pm asking me what do I think about bc cams. Hands down the 272 is the best cam for the street and that's my solid opinion. I have recommended bc272s many of times over. I send a follow up pm and asked how did they like them I get a thanks in return for recommended them. This must be why bc can't keep the 272 in stock. People can say what they want bc has come a long way with quality since day one. They certainly got my vote.

Stating that one cam (I don't care who's it is) is the best cam for the street in every situation is very simple minded. Every cam setup has a specific combo it was meant to do well in. There are way to many variables that change from one persons combo to another that make power gains from the camshaft choice a real thing.

 

[kchaazz]

I have BC 272's in my car. After playing with my cam gears a bit, Ive got idle and driveability so close to stock that you wouldnt even know the cams are 272's, theyre very streetable, and theyve definitely improved flow up top because my TD05 18G cant make more than 22psi, whereas before the cams I was able to hold rock solid 25psi all the way to 7.5k RPM.