will be Running BC 280 cams on my car, what springs will be the best

[BogusSVO]

So then how would you accurately measure hp? From our testing. We have run our cars on several different days, with Weather Corrected results within 2% of eachother..

Thats on the same dyno, with the same dyno operator. Take it to a different dyno and it is highly doubful you will get the same numbers.

Thats how one should use a dyno, do a run then change the set up, then go back to the same dyno and do the next run.

So BogusSVO what's your opinion on cams for a high hp stroker motor.

As I said earlier I've read good and bad from almost every cam out there and did alot of research before buying these. This was also a few years ago when I got these.

I do like the info everyone is posting so continue

There is so much more info needed before just grabbing up "The hot cam" that is the flavor of the month.

What turbo will be used, how much boost, what lb/min air flow.

What intake?

Flow of the head?

Build specs of the head?

Where will the engine spend most of the time? RPM @70? what gear?

End use of the engine/car.

This a strong DD?

or a Trailer queen?

Drag car?

AutoX?

Road coarse?

Weight of the car?

All this and more need to be thought of when selecting a cam.

 

[turbo23]

Thats on the same dyno, with the same dyno operator. Take it to a different dyno and it is highly doubful you will get the same numbers.

Thats how one should use a dyno, do a run then change the set up, then go back to the same dyno and do the next run.

I agree, I thought we were talking about the AMS test? Which was done on the same mustang dyno.

I have BC 272's in my car. After playing with my cam gears a bit, Ive got idle and driveability so close to stock that you wouldnt even know the cams are 272's, theyre very streetable, and theyve definitely improved flow up top because my TD05 18G cant make more than 22psi, whereas before the cams I was able to hold rock solid 25psi all the way to 7.5k RPM.

But that doesn't mean there isn't better cams out there for your combo. This isn't a BC thing even, this is just in general. For the OP the BC 280s are not the best choice for his combo. Unless they changed there profiles to something I haven't seen yet.

 

[keltalon]

Stating that one cam (I don't care who's it is) is the best cam for the street in every situation is very simple minded. Every cam setup has a specific combo it was meant to do well in. There are way to many variables that change from one persons combo to another that make power gains from the camshaft choice a real thing.

You right. Let me refraze my statement. "Out of all the cams I tested in the cam test, the bc272s were the most streetable cam tested hands down and ended up being the cam of choice." Now that's better

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

You right. Let me refraze my statement. "Out of all the cams I tested in the cam test, the bc272s were the most streetable cam tested hands down for my car, in my opinion..whatever that's worth" Now that's better

Edited for accuracy.

 

[keltalon]

Edited for accuracy.

This a classic example of expert alteration and its this type of deception that has lead to companies like bc getting a bad rep. Thanks now we really know what you are about on these boards! Way to go bud. Lol

 

[Archer Fabrications]

I hate my bc272/272s they are limiting me on my setup for sure. I'll be picking up GSC s2's in the future. English racing didn't seem to like BC either. Thats just my experience though. I got my BC for 100 dollars from a buddys wrecked talon, if i had to spend more i would have gone with s2's from the get go.

As far as on topic. Kiggley beehives. And I'll be getting those also.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

This a classic example of expert alteration and its this type of deception that has lead to companies like bc getting a bad rep. Thanks now we really know what you are about on these boards! Way to go bud. Lol

Just qualifying your statement appropriately.

By the way, I received a PM from dustin today after my initial comment in here where he is acknowledging the exact issues that gave them the reputation they have.

As in BC owns up to the issues having existed and he says they have since been resolved. I will say Dustin is courteous and professional, that doesn't mean I am sold on his products just yet.

When he can show me a cam profiling with specs comparable to the competitors I will re-consider. I was told he will send me the cam checkouts from the Cam Pro, I will ask if he would allow me to post them or not. BC probably holds them to be proprietary so we'll see.

You are merely trying to pretend it never happened, yet BC manned up and attributed it to a couple rotten apples in the machine shop.

This is why I don't take what you say seriously.

Just like the hysterical nut riding in the thread where your buddies street tire 16G car obviously redlighted in slowmotion and high-def yielding an impossible 60' for his setup and you just would not face reality.

You are an egotistical fool and figure yourself to clever by half.

That cam is (in your opinion) the best street cam for your particular combination. No more, no less.

"Street-ability" is an entirely subjective term, pretending otherwise is laughable.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Zing!

 

[keltalon]

Just qualifying your statement appropriately.

By the way, I received a PM from dustin today after my initial comment in here where he is acknowledging the exact issues that gave them the reputation they have.

As in BC owns up to the issues having existed and he says they have since been resolved. I will say Dustin is courteous and professional, that doesn't mean I am sold on his products just yet.

When he can show me a cam profiling with specs comparable to the competitors I will re-consider. I was told he will send me the cam checkouts from the Cam Pro, I will ask if he would allow me to post them or not. BC probably holds them to be proprietary so we'll see.

You are merely trying to pretend it never happened, yet BC manned up and attributed it to a couple rotten apples in the machine shop.

This is why I don't take what you say seriously.

Just like the hysterical nut riding in the thread where your buddies street tire 16G car obviously redlighted in slowmotion and high-def yielding an impossible 60' for his setup and you just would not face reality.

You are an egotistical fool and figure yourself to clever by half.

That cam is (in your opinion) the best street cam for your particular combination. No more, no less.

"Street-ability" is an entirely subjective term, pretending otherwise is laughable.

My question is how can you qualify the opinion of another person? Tell me so I can understand. I gave an opinion base on my own personal experience which is what 90 percent of the information is on the forum since more than 99% of us are not engineers and we post what we have experience with good or bad. . You got your opinion and I respect that but when you start altering someone else's opinion on the forum then you cross the line! I assume you are happy with your set up if so then that is all that matters just enjoy it because I am certainly enjoying mine!

 

[JacksonAuto]

So then how would you accurately measure hp? From our testing. We have run our cars on several different days, with Weather Corrected results within 2% of eachother...

2% on a 600hp engine is a difference of 12hp. Too much margin of error to determine if one cam was better than the other. A cam change may only net a 10HP difference and since this is well under your "accepted" MOE then it's not an accurate test. Other variables are in play such as engine oil temp, transmission temp, quality of inlet air, etc. It's almost impossible to quantify the results accurately on a chassis dyno. Now if you've got a chassis dyno and you have methods in place to maintain those temperatures within 5* between pulls then kudos to you. I've seen on our engine dyno that a difference in coolant temp of less that 15* will yield a difference in HP of 3-5% (this was on an 1100HP engine where 3% is over 30HP). Our dyno repeats within .005% which is considered the industry standard in the racing community. Quoting a 2% MOE will get you nothing except laughed at. We use SAE correction here.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

My question is how can you qualify the opinion of another person? Tell me so I can understand. I gave an opinion base on my own personal experience which is what 90 percent of the information is on the forum since more than 99% of us are not engineers and we post what we have experience with good or bad. . You got your opinion and I respect that but when you start altering someone else's opinion on the forum then you cross the line! I assume you are happy with your set up if so then that is all that matters just enjoy it because I am certainly enjoying mine!

Because sometimes the other person doesn't understand their results and what the implications for another setup would be. Especially when we are talking about "street" cars.

It's pretty straight forward.. you say X cam is best for street use "hands down"

Except these cams were tested on your car only, which had A/B manifolds, C fuel with D turbo and E boost in F chassis with G transmission.

X cam with Y/Z manifolds and Q fuel on R turbo at S boost in T Chassis with U trans may not be so hot.

That's why it needs to be qualified like that.

Not sure it can be made more plain.

 

[keltalon]

Because sometimes the other person doesn't understand their results and what the implications for another setup would be. Especially when we are talking about "street" cars.

It's pretty straight forward.. you say X cam is best for street use "hands down"

Except these cams were tested on your car only, which had A/B manifolds, C fuel with D turbo and E boost in F chassis with G transmission.

X cam with Y/Z manifolds and Q fuel on R turbo at S boost in T Chassis with U trans may not be so hot.

That's why it needs to be qualified like that.

Not sure it can be made more plain.

Well do this post some sort of link for me to show that there is a more streetable cam. I have installed these 272s in a number of my friends cars and they can't be happier. You know why they went with them, it is because they rode in my car and was like what the heck! The comment I get is "Man I want what you got" I say okay! I went the long haul with the cam test.

I have tested big cams , medium cams, small cams. True the bc 272 didn't make the most power but they sure as heck didn't put gas smell in my car at a traffic light either. Don't get me wrong if you want to run 9s or win the dyno queen title then maybe the bc272 cams are not for you. But if you want to drive your car to work and not smell like gas in an very important meeting or you perhaps want to take your wife or girlfriend out on a date, hold your own on the streets by beating a vett or something and not have her complain about the gas odor then, maybe you want to go gsc or kelford. I just love the street manners of the bc272 cam

I recently install a set of the new bc 284 280 cams in my car and boy is it a top end monster. Here is a quick video of a short 3rd gear pull. I had to get out of the throttle because my wide band o2 sensor went way lean a clear sign that the fuel system needs to be upgraded. Yall stay tuned for I will indeed be posting more as the fuel system is upgraded. Overall I am quite impressed with these new stage 4 cams. but make no mistake about it the bc272 are still on the shelf for all the reasons stated above! check out the short video <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vy6Vx8icdEo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> my engine build can be found here alone with the specs of the BC stage 4 cams. check it out http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/cylinder-head-short-block/440926-broke-piston-wrist-pin.html

 

[turbo23]

2% on a 600hp engine is a difference of 12hp. Too much margin of error to determine if one cam was better than the other. A cam change may only net a 10HP difference and since this is well under your "accepted" MOE then it's not an accurate test. Other variables are in play such as engine oil temp, transmission temp, quality of inlet air, etc. It's almost impossible to quantify the results accurately on a chassis dyno. Now if you've got a chassis dyno and you have methods in place to maintain those temperatures within 5* between pulls then kudos to you. I've seen on our engine dyno that a difference in coolant temp of less that 15* will yield a difference in HP of 3-5% (this was on an 1100HP engine where 3% is over 30HP). Our dyno repeats within .005% which is considered the industry standard in the racing community. Quoting a 2% MOE will get you nothing except laughed at. We use SAE correction here.

The 2% was me tossing out a number I obviously should not have. We have a mustang dyno. and I'm sure its within the Industry standard accuracy numbers. I have also seen oil temp and coolant temp have a large roll on hp numbers. We do not have the instruments in place to monitor all the necessary variables to get within .005%. All our tuning is done with the engine at the same water temp (within 10*). This same goes for oil temp if the vehicle is able to monitor it.

 

[JacksonAuto]

Well do this post some sort of link for me to show that there is a more streetable cam. I have installed these 272s in a number of my friends cars and they can't be happier.

That's impossible to do because it's not a quantifiable parameter. Your idea of "streetable" may differ from mine and they'll both differ from your buddy.

Can't see the facts in this thread through all of the dick-swinging.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Well do this post some sort of link for me to show that there is a more streetable cam. I have installed these 272s in a number of my friends cars and they can't be happier. You know why they went with them is because they rode in my car and was like what the heck! The comment I get is "Man I want what you got" I say okay! I went the long haul with the cam test. I have tested big cams , medium cams, small cams. True the bc 272 didn't make the most power but they sure as heck didn't put gas smell in my car at a traffic light either. Don't get me wrong if you want to run 9s or win the dyno queen title them maybe the bc272 cam are not for you. But if you want to drive your car to work and not smell like gas in an important meeting or you perhaps you want to take your wife or girlfriend out on a date, hold your own on the streets by beating a vett or something an not have her complain about the gas odor them maybe you want to go gsc or kelford. I just love the street manners of the bc272 cam I recently install a set of the new bc 284 280 cams in my car and boy is it a top end monster. Here is a quick video of a short 3rd gear pull. I had to get out the throttle because my egt went way lean a sign the fuel system needs to be upgraded. Yall stay tuned for I will indeed be posting more as the fuel system is upgraded. Overall I am quite impressed with these new stage 4 cams. but make no mistake about it the bc272 are still on the shelf for all the reasons stated above! check out the short video

That giant wall o text is making my eyes bleed. The lack of grammar is not helping either.

A lot of that did not make sense either. You are not the first person to try a few different cams.

You EGT went lean? You mean your wideband UEGO showed you were approaching stoich under load? EGT is just a measure of temperature, what that temperature means is subject to context. EGT can be high from running rich with retarded timing as well.

GSC or Kelford cams don't intrinsically make your exhaust smell of fuel, that is in the tune.

I can beat on a Vette if I switched back to stock cams.. if your friends have never been in a cammed DSM I can see where going from stock to a larger lift/duration stick would impress regardless of what it was. A better match, and they probably could be happier

I had a set of prototype GM274's that I made "power" on, doesn't make them a good cam, let alone a good match for my setup at the time.

So, post whatever you like, but don't expect to be considered authoritative by anyone who knows what they are talking about.

 

[keltalon]

That giant wall o text is making my eyes bleed. The lack of grammar is not helping either.

A lot of that did not make sense either. You are not the first person to try a few different cams.

You EGT went lean? You mean your wideband UEGO showed you were approaching stoich under load? EGT is just a measure of temperature, what that temperature means is subject to context. EGT can be high from running rich with retarded timing as well.

GSC or Kelford cams don't intrinsically make your exhaust smell of fuel, that is in the tune.

I can beat on a Vette if I switched back to stock cams.. if your friends have never been in a cammed DSM I can see where going from stock to a larger lift/duration stick would impress regardless of what it was. A better match, and they probably could be happier

I had a set of prototype GM274's that I made "power" on, doesn't make them a good cam, let alone a good match for my setup at the time.

So, post whatever you like, but don't expect to be considered authoritative by anyone who knows what they are talking about.

reread. sometimes excitement takes over. in the end the point made!

 

[keltalon]

That's impossible to do because it's not a quantifiable parameter. Your idea of "streetable" may differ from mine and they'll both differ from your buddy.

Can't see the facts in this thread through all of the dick-swinging.

Jackson you own a machine shop right? You should out of everyone here on the boards know what I mean by streetable! Okay stop pulling my leg

 

[keltalon]

Can't see the facts in this thread through all of the dick-swinging.

Well the swinging will come when the results are posted You should know this MR. Jackson!

 

[keltalon]

That giant wall o text is making my eyes bleed. The lack of grammar is not helping either.

A lot of that did not make sense either. You are not the first person to try a few different cams.

You EGT went lean? You mean your wideband UEGO showed you were approaching stoich under load? EGT is just a measure of temperature, what that temperature means is subject to context. EGT can be high from running rich with retarded timing as well.

GSC or Kelford cams don't intrinsically make your exhaust smell of fuel, that is in the tune.

I can beat on a Vette if I switched back to stock cams.. if your friends have never been in a cammed DSM I can see where going from stock to a larger lift/duration stick would impress regardless of what it was. A better match, and they probably could be happier

I had a set of prototype GM274's that I made "power" on, doesn't make them a good cam, let alone a good match for my setup at the time.

So, post whatever you like, but don't expect to be considered authoritative by anyone who knows what they are talking about.

Lando you seem to be up for a rematch or something?

 

[JacksonAuto]

Jackson you own a machine shop right? You should out of everyone here on the boards know what I mean by streetable! Okay stop pulling my leg

Well the swinging will come when the results are posted You should know this MR. Jackson!

WTF do either of these comments mean? The idea of "streetable" is 100% subjective. Soooooooo how is someone to post results or proof of "streetability"?

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Jackson you own a machine shop right? You should out of everyone here on the boards know what I mean by streetable! Okay stop pulling my leg

To me, a 71mm Turbo in a T4 1.2x A/R on .46x" lift cams with a solid hub clutch is streetable. As in it will be driven to work. A 59mm T4 on big cam and open downpipe/dumped wastegates, with a similar clutch was driven sometimes 80 miles each way for months.

To some a T25 is the most lag they'll put up with.

Streetable is one of the most useless, subjective phrases in modding.

In response to your other post on the same comment, what rematch? Lando is a mod here, are you sure you got the right guy?

I'd have bet money my 59mm on kill would've walked your bigger turbo/BC cam combo. My airflow (67lbs/min @ 38psi) and 80-100mph times vs. weight were consistent with almost 700whp.

 

[keltalon]

To me, a 71mm Turbo in a T4 1.2x A/R on .46x" lift cams with a solid hub clutch is streetable. As in it will be driven to work. A 59mm T4 on big cam and open downpipe/dumped wastegates, with a similar clutch was driven sometimes 80 miles each way for months.

To some a T25 is the most lag they'll put up with.

Streetable is one of the most useless, subjective phrases in modding.

Can you put that in lamen's terms? Post the results of your claim this is what people what to see! Not type letters.............

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Are you day-drinking?

 

[JacksonAuto]

Can you put that in lamen's term? Post the results of your claim this is what people what to see! Not type letters.............

WTF Are you drunk?

 

[keltalon]

WTF Are you drunk?

Lol!