Which shocks for GC coilovers on a 99 GSX.

[JNZTRBO]

Hey, I have a 99 Eclipse GSX. It had Ground Control coilovers paired up with GR2's in the front, and AGX shocks in the rear when I bought it. It has all ways handled and rode like crap. My rear shock recently went out, so I decided to replace them all. What would you guys recommend? I keep hearing the best combo for the money would be the Illuminas, or the Koni Yeloows if I want to spend the money. What do you guys think? Thanks.

 

[KlowdDragon]

did you ever try adjusting them?

 

[JNZTRBO]

Yes, and it didnt feel any different. I have never been in a car so bouncy. Is there a reason why the previous owner did diiferent setups for the front and rear?

 

[jtmcinder]

If you do get some decent shocks, keep in mind that the ring inside the threaded portion of the perch just match the shock. In particular, the ring for Koni Yellows (which about a gazillion threads will tell you get) is different from the ring for GR-2s (barf!) or AGXs (bonk!)

- Jtoby

 

[Jeff_Jeske]

Ok so everyone is saying Koni's.......but what spring rates should you get from GC if your car is only on the track 33% of the time?

Those Koni's better have some serious rebound dampening.

Illumina's just couldn't handle my GCs for crap. The ride wasn't all that bad but when you did it a bump the car just shot up like hitting a ramp.

 

[jtmcinder]

GC/Koni mostly on the street ... 450/350 or so, maybe 450/375.

As to the damping of Konis, Dennis Grant just posted the values (at 2.5"/s) last week. Pay attention.

Assuming that your current springs are the GC default (450/300), it does not surprise me that you weren't happy with Illuminas. As suggested by RRE, Illuminas are fine for ProKits on the street (although I would argue for H&R OE Sports, instead), but they are not appropriate for significantly higher rates.

- Jtoby

 

[JNZTRBO]

I think my GC's are off the shelf rates. How can I double check though? If they are off the shelf, what would you recommend for 80% street, 20% for dragging at the track? BTW, the car is dropped almost 2 inches if that matters.

 

[jtmcinder]

The rates are written on them. The 250 means 2.5" ID, so ignore that, and the 700 or 800 means 7" or 8" long, so ignore that. Look for a 450 on the fronts and a 300 on the rears, since that's the default rates.

If you really want to be down 2" then you need Konis or rather high rates or you will bottom out the fronts ... or maybe you don't care about this. I, personally, would raise the car a little and get 450/375.

- Jtoby

 

[Jeff_Jeske]

GC/Koni mostly on the street ... 450/350 or so, maybe 450/375.
- Jtoby

So are you happy with the performance of this combo on the street? Does your woman gripe that the car is too stiff? Could you take a long road trip without feeling like crap afterwards?

What exactly do I need to get to make the GC's fit the Koni's?

 

[jtmcinder]

So are you happy with the performance of this combo on the street? Does your woman gripe that the car is too stiff? Could you take a long road trip without feeling like crap afterwards?

Well, I actually run something a bit more extreme: 500 front and 450 rear. I'm not that happy with it, as it's way too loose at speed, so I'll be back to something like 500/400 next year, which is my old set-up. On the street, it's rough, but tolerable. If by "your woman" you are referring to my wife, she doesn't really like it, but we rarely take my car, since the whole family doesn't fit. However, if you are referring to my daughter, she adores it ... daddy car loud, daddy car fast, daddy car bumpy. I have taken it on a long trip (assuming that 3100 miles in 59 hours counts as such) and I wasn't my normal self for about a week, but that was more due to the lack of a silencer in the exhaust and the fact that my butt doesn't fit my seats.

.

What exactly do I need to get to make the GC's fit the Koni's?

As I said: new rings for inside the threaded section. Just call GC.

- Jtoby

 

[JNZTRBO]

I will most likely go with the Illuminas. Will I need anything special to get them to work with the GC's like I would need with the Koni's?

 

[FORMONTOYA]

i have had illuminas on my car for several years now and think that it is a pretty good setup. works great on the street (2" drop), lift it up and reset the illuminas plus different set of tires and its off to the autocross track (no problems).


jim

 

[TSiAWD666]

I will most likely go with the Illuminas. Will I need anything special to get them to work with the GC's like I would need with the Koni's?

After all that you're getting the Illuminas? Did you read these posts?

I have them with 500/375 on my car and really don't feel they're adequate for the rates I have.

As for any special fittings, you will need the right o-ring and metal collar combination which you'll have to get from GC. Call them up and order them... heck they may give them to you depending on their mood (they're generally very nice about these things). And good luck getting the threaded collars off the old shocks... depending on the original install it may be a pain in the ass

 

[jtmcinder]

After all that you're getting the Illuminas? Did you read these posts?

DSM = doesn't spend money

Even when the difference is only 20% in dollars and 200% in performance.

It's something that has taken me a while to get used to on this list. My advice: Laugh it off, assume that some lurker got the point, and move on to the next "whatcha think of these 19" wheels?" thread.

- Jtoby

 

[suicidal2af]

DSM = doesn't spend money

Even when the difference is only 20% in dollars and 200% in performance.

It's something that has taken me a while to get used to on this list. My advice: Laugh it off, assume that some lurker got the point, and move on to the next "whatcha think of these 19" wheels?" thread.

- Jtoby

I actually did get the point. I do have a few questions, though, if you wouldn't mind helping me out. I'm kind of a newb when it comes to suspension, although I'd like to change that.

First, what advantages would a Koni/GC combo offer over something like Tein Flex, Apex'i WS , Tanabe Sustec, JIC coilovers, etc.. it seems most people argue that full coilovers are better than struts and sleeves, but the serious autocrossers seem to mainly be running the Koni/GC combo.

Second, what springrates would you recommend for a daily-driven GS-T? I'm mainly going to be open track days and Solo II, but I'd eventually like to get into Solo I also. I'm not terribly concerned with comfort...as long as it's tolerable, I'll deal with it. As far as passengers go, if they wanna ride in my car, they can learn to deal with it too .

Finally, any good book recommendations to polish up suspension knowledge? I realize there's probably a lot of trial and error on spring rates and the like, but I'd like to have a broader knowledge so that I'm not taking shots in the dark, and at least have an inkling as to what changes might affect what aspects of handling.

 

[jtmcinder]

For the last time ... the advantage of Konis over almost all Japanese shocks is the rebound to compression ratio. A cranked up Koni has something like 10x the rebound as compression. Show me a Japanese shock in the same price-range that can do that at any setting.

As to sleeves vs "real" coilovers ... it's 99% a red herring. The keys are the springs and the shocks, not how they attach to each other.

With regard to your car, please sit down. My advice is to get a new ride. FWD DSMs have no chance, period. If you start throwing money at it, you will just be making it worse in the long run. At some point you'll get hooked and then you'll just have to start over. Better to do it now. If you insist, however, maybe because you really just want to have fun, then run the same springs as do AWDs, plus maybe 50# in the rear. And get a Quaife. Seriously. Start saving every penny, donate plasma, join the National Guard (since they now have huge signing bonuses for some reason ) ... whatever you need to do to get a Quaife.

As to books, look for any post by Dennis Grant and follow the link he always includes. Or just set aside a few hours a week to just search and read. You'd be amazed as how much stuff is out there. Yes, it's on the internet and we know what that means, but if you come back here with good questions, there are a bunch of us who are always up for a detailed conversation. Sometimes it gets nasty (see, e.g., my exchange with Dennis on how differentials work), but if you stick with it to the end, you'll get some useful information.

- Jtoby

 

[JNZTRBO]

I have been quoted 410 shipped for the Illuminas. Any idea on what the Koni Yellows should go for?

 

[jtmcinder]

Places like LTB (who are nice guys to deal with) have them for $550 a set.

http://www.ltbmotorsports.com/mishab.html

- Jtoby

 

[Jackyll]

Last time I checked I they were around $600, but you could probably find them for cheaper if you looked around.

 

[TSiAWD666]

JNZTRBO, if you're in the northern VA area I'd let you take my gsx for a spin to see what problems I have with the high spring rates and illuminas Just drop me a pm and I can set aside some time for it.

[edited for typo]

 

[MNGSX]

Dont go tokico....

I have made the AGX's work well even lowered... It's just not easy and most people will blow them doing it.. wrong that is. They are IMHO... the #2 regular shock (non complete coil over system shock). Konis are #1. The newer part # agx's are shorter up front than the older AGX's... I also raised my upper spring perch anyway with a pillow ball... Basically regardless of what brand of shock you run on a lowered dsm you must run a raised upper pillow ball shock mount in the front and a coaxial upper hat. The suspension geometry will twist up any shock and kill it.

Upper Mounts w/coaxial hats

"Upper mounts will be available seperately for customers who have already purchased Koni Sports"

While they will fit any shock that will fit a DSM... you are better off attaching koni's to them.

http://www.accuratetechnologies.com/performance/Default.aspx?tabid=244

 

[Jeff_Jeske]

I definately wouldn't get Illuminas with GCs. The rebound on the GC will beat the snot out of the Illumina and the occupants of the vehicle.

I have been researching this for a few weeks now.

And honestly the advice from people who actually race DSM's is:

1. JIC
2. TIEN FLEX
3. GC and KONI preferably higher rate GC with revalved KONI's.
4. H&R springs with Koni's and RM sway bars.

Basically you should have sway bars either way but you can go with softer springs as long as you get a heavy duty sway bar to compensate.

Since I am not a ricer and I dont have a money tree, I am going with option 4. This should make for a very tolerable car on the street....yet....competative on the track.

OFF TOPIC OPINION FOLLOWS: I feel the BIGGEST track advantage is R compound tires not super fancy/expensive suspenstion. Running a set of 245/45/16 R compound kumho victor racers instead of my normal 225/45/17 kumho MX was like a night and day difference. So if you dont have race tires start saving your pennies.

 

[JNZTRBO]

I just bought some Koni Yellows for 530 shipped. Hope I will be as happy with them as most of you are. Thanks for the help gents.

 

[MNGSX]

DO GET A SET OF THESE UPPER MOUNTS

http://www.accuratetechnologies.com/performance/Default.aspx?tabid=244

I had someone I know CNC me plates and I got pillowballs from the QA1 catalog and hats from a shock shop.. But the above link is the best one stop shop to do it right...

If you are going to lower and want a properly functioning suspension dont run w/o them.. Even stock height the doulble lower ball joints on these cars makes those parts worth consideration..

 

[JNZTRBO]

So do that setup with the GC and Konis? Any idea on how much they cost?